Women in combat ?

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

As  a  woman and being around the military i think there should be certain things that needs  to be men only.I am all for equality and stuff but face it..Woman handle and act differently with certain things.We get more emotional when faced with cetain issues.Thats a fact unless you are some hardass  with no feelings at all.We are wired for being more nurturing,more caring and that fact alone ,akes it diffucult to reach certaim decisions.But I also think that woman make awesome soldiers...

I admit that I could never do certain jobs...and I am sure there a few jobs that men suck at it...:)

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Ok so someone here needs to be all for this, I guess that will be me.

I have been for this since as long as I can remember. This is also a good time to test it out with no major stuff going on...like a World War or something really demanding. The reason I say this is because we aren't in desperate times pulling it as a last resort. We can let anyone who wants to try. On that similar note, if they are able to pass the standard training for whatever position they want then why not? Hygiene? That can be fixed with just a about 4-5 ounces of gear, reusable/washable pads and douches.

As for how the men would act: Any man, I don't care what your position or honors are, that would rape/assault a woman deserves what ever comes to them. Have some self control. Then the man to man encounters for "alpha" in the presence of the "beta"... you are in the military and still subject to the chain of command. The way most of you are talking is that the majority of males in the military can't control their actions and will fight with their team and assault the women. If that is the case maybe we should have some more stringent mental health checks in place to qualify.

Becoming POWs? Oh well, they knew what they signed up for the same as any man. As for how the enemy would use it, they are going to use any win to their advantage. But on that same note could you imagine if we had sent nothing but women to the middle east? Think of the demoralization that would have caused to the men and the empowering the women of those nations would have felt.

As for soloing, depending how many women want to participate and how many are physically able we can have all female teams. If their aren't enough in one branch just toss them into a joint task force.

Bottom line is that if they are physically able (I know many will not be, but some will) then they should be allowed to pursue any career in the military they wish.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Keal G Seo

[c.a.willard]

 

Well since there are no longer any front lines in warfare the majority of this discussion is already moot.  Its called asymmetric warfare and women are already fighting in it just like men. I spent 10 years active as a MP in the Army.  It was the closest females in the Army could get to "Combat Arms" I've humped the same gear as infantry and so have my female Soldiers.  Ive had men and women who couldn't hack it.  Gender had very little to do with it.   They lived in ####ty conditions including when it was that time of the month without any problems a good bit of the time doing missions side by side with Infantry units including one of my deployments were we worked directy with a marine infantry battalion.  

 

For those who still think women cant hack it take a look at the success the Army's Sapper school.  Fully a third of the women who have attended have passed the course and guess what the school didnt change their standards to make it happen.  They passed all on their own merits.    Someone please tell me one of those women isn't able to handle the physical demands of the infantry.

 

I'll call you out on this nonsense...

 

I've had a long career in the Army and served two combat tours. I've been a squad leader, platoon sergeant, and First Sergeant. I've administered and participated in every annual PT test, field exercises, crew serve weapons, etc. Unless it's changed since my retirement in 1990, the standards are not the same, period. I had to do push-ups back straight, chin to the ground, etc. A woman does them rotating on her knees, etc. etc. on and on.

 

Lowering the bar of physical standards for both men and women to pass has been the historical solution. If you're in dire straights and really need a cop, EMT or Fireman, do you want someone showing up who passed lowered standards or do you want the best qualified? Apply my logic to our armed forces or any other occupation where testosterone is a decisive advantage.

 

This all inclusive crap is weakening our fighting forces and critical life saving services all in the name of political correctness. Is it actually making us stronger, or tearing away the fabric of our society?

.

 

 

 

Things have changed a lot since the 90's.  Before calling something nonsense perhaps it would be wise to research the subject yourself. I can tell you from  my personal experience that my female Soldiers were carrying the same weight and doing the same patrols that male 11 series were doing.  I can tell you this because we were doing them together.   Yes for the annual APFT women have a lower standard as far as number of repetitions.  They do however have to use the same form.  And i was speaking specifically towards one school which does not use the regular APFT as their standard.  It is regularly accepted that Sapper school is one of the most physically demanding courses in the Army.  They have one standard for all students regardless of age and gender,  many army schools are this way.  Those standards have not been lowered to make it easier on females in the Army.  I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true for things like selection or Infantry AIT.    Army and Marine Special Operations Forces have alrady been deploying females right along side their male warfighters in the capacity of female engagement teams.  

[Daniel]

Why is it everyone has to say, I humped the same thing as Infantry or I did the same job as Infantry. If that's the case then why didn't you reup as infantry, since you we already doing the job..  

This.

 

I had a soldier in my PSYOP unit tell me he was "awarded a CIB by a COL". I wanted to the choke the life out of him. He was standing in the wrong line or something but somehow thinks "he did the same thing as tne infantry." He does know he doesnt rightly have one he just kept the badge and likes to tell the story.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Daniel

[Daniel]

Things have changed a lot since the 90's.  Before calling something nonsense perhaps it would be wise to research the subject yourself. I can tell you from  my personal experience that my female Soldiers were carrying the same weight and doing the same patrols that male 11 series were doing.  I can tell you this because we were doing them together.   Yes for the annual APFT women have a lower standard as far as number of repetitions.  They do however have to use the same form.  And i was speaking specifically towards one school which does not use the regular APFT as their standard.  It is regularly accepted that Sapper school is one of the most physically demanding courses in the Army.  They have one standard for all students regardless of age and gender,  many army schools are this way.  Those standards have not been lowered to make it easier on females in the Army.  I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true for things like selection or Infantry AIT.    Army and Marine Special Operations Forces have alrady been deploying females right along side their male warfighters in the capacity of female engagement teams.  

Look, the FET is fine and all but I know what they have to do. They are not anywhere near as capable or trained.

 

We had one of ours fall down in a pile crying and had to be airlifted out that night when we got back to base because it was to dangerous. The male three person team she had just gotten out to to help  had been there for months and no one said a word about them going anywhere. 

[Sam1]

Another aspect not being considered is the waste of massive continual training these units will have to start doing on sensitivity and behaviors that has never been done before.

Plus they say the standards will be the same.... But whenvery few wwomen get in, they'll lower the standards and put every single soldier's life at risk when it goes from a 2 litter carry to a 4 and there's only 2 ladies around to haul someone like spots off the battlefield with his life depending on it.

[c.a.willard]

One of several female recipients of the Distinguished Service Cross

 

Hall, Virginia

Civilian, Office of Strategic Services
World War II

Synopsis:
For extraordinary heroism in action as a civilian intelligence officer with the Office of Strategic Services. With utter disregard for her safety and continually at the risk of capture, torture, and death, she directed the Resistance Forces with extraordinary success in acts of sabotage and guerrilla warfare against enemy troops, installations and communications. Miss Hall displayed rare courage, perseverance and ingenuity; her efforts contributed materially to the successful operations of the Resistance Forces in support of the Allied Expeditionary Forces in the liberation of France.

 

 

I am not saying that the standards should be lowered, just that there are females out there that can meet the standards as they are now.  Those women who choose to do so should be given every opportunity to succeed based on the standard necessary to successfully perform the job without regards to gender.    Obviously not every woman will be able to meet the physical demands of combat arms jobs just like not every male can.  That doesn't mean that every woman should be disqualified from these positions.

[scoutfsu]

Things have changed a lot since the 90's.  Before calling something nonsense perhaps it would be wise to research the subject yourself. I can tell you from  my personal experience that my female Soldiers were carrying the same weight and doing the same patrols that male 11 series were doing.  I can tell you this because we were doing them together.   Yes for the annual APFT women have a lower standard as far as number of repetitions.  They do however have to use the same form.  And i was speaking specifically towards one school which does not use the regular APFT as their standard.  It is regularly accepted that Sapper school is one of the most physically demanding courses in the Army.  They have one standard for all students regardless of age and gender,  many army schools are this way.  Those standards have not been lowered to make it easier on females in the Army.  I see no reason why the same wouldn't be true for things like selection or Infantry AIT.    Army and Marine Special Operations Forces have alrady been deploying females right along side their male warfighters in the capacity of female engagement teams.  

 

I was reading an AAR on Sapper School over on LF.  The female honor grad couldn't hump the 240 and it had to be passed off to another soldier.  Some people are not allowed to fail.  Yay political correctness. 

 

You put women and men together and they're going to fuck.  Look at all the problems co-ed units have.  It's going to be an EO nightmare and will degrade the readiness and morale of the unit.

FET's are almost universally worthless.  Don't buy the media hype.  Listen to the people who have worked with/around them.  There might be some that are actually worth a damn but I haven't seen them yet.

 

Standards, which aren't all too terribly high anyways, WILL be dropped.  But I don't see how this train is going to be stopped.  Its coming.  I can't wait to laugh and say I told you so when all the problems crop up.  But then again, the people pushing this agenda won't be the ones to pay for it.

[Joseg]

C.A Williard, what's your MOS?

 

Not saying us, Infantry types are #### hot since we have our share of ####heads, but at least they signed up to be Infantry and not some other MOS that wants to be Infantry..  Just saying..  :rock:

 

 

 

Standards oh yeah, Starts off with PT standards both male and female scales, when they decide that their will be only one, it will lower than the male and a tid bit higher than the female, wouldn't that  water down the standards?

 

I would really love to see a female, hump the same weight as me and patrol the jungle like I did for several days. being all wet, nasty, hot, and dealing with the great things of the Infantryman lifestyle.. 

Edited June 19, 2013 by Joseg

[Romad7]

C.A Williard, what's your MOS?

Not saying us, Infantry types are #### hot since we have our share of ####heads, but at least they signed up to be Infantry and not some other MOS that wants to be Infantry.. Just saying.. :rock:



Standards oh yeah, Starts off with PT standards both male and female scales, when they decide that their will be only one, it will lower than the male and a tid bit higher than the female, wouldn't that water down the standards?

I would really love to see a female, hump the same weight as me and patrol the jungle like I did for several days. being all wet, nasty, hot, and dealing with the great things of the Infantryman lifestyle..

Mmm, wet nasty and hot...wait where am I;-)

Just imagine the morale boost if the standards were at a single lower standard. Everyone could get 300s to go with their black berets, win-win!

Women should have to meet the male standards to even be considered for ground combat fields. Edited June 19, 2013 by Romad7

[c.a.willard]

C.A Williard, what's your MOS?

 

Not saying us, Infantry types are #### hot since we have our share of ####heads, but at least they signed up to be Infantry and not some other MOS that wants to be Infantry..  Just saying..  :rock:

 

 

 

Standards oh yeah, Starts off with PT standards both male and female scales, when they decide that their will be only one, it will lower than the male and a tid bit higher than the female, wouldn't that  water down the standards?

 

I would really love to see a female, hump the same weight as me and patrol the jungle like I did for several days. being all wet, nasty, hot, and dealing with the great things of the Infantryman lifestyle.. 

Like i said before I'm a MP.  Never said i wanted to be Infantry, just that i lived with them and patrolled with them and we carried the same weight.  

[Guest nra37922]

Why is it everyone has to say, I humped the same thing as Infantry or I did the same job as Infantry. If that's the case then why didn't you reup as infantry, since you we already doing the job..  

Before anyone else says it...gives new meaning to humping

[scoutfsu]

Like i said before I'm a MP.  Never said i wanted to be Infantry, just that i lived with them and patrolled with them and we carried the same weight.  

 

Hey, C.A. - where did this happen?  I ask b/c sometimes apples don't compare to apples.  If it was Iraq, that was a different fight.  It was more of a mounted, urban fight.  Even the dismounted patrols, you weren't far from a PB or vehicles.  Here in AFG, the dismounted patrol loads are wildly different.  Not even remotely in the same ballpark.  Due to job/rank latitude, I'm not even carrying the load these guys have.