Powder coating the easy way

[Caster]

 

 

If this works, it sure simplifies bullet casting.  No more worries about precise alloy content or endless fiddling with lube formulas.  It seems almost too good to be true.

 

 

 

Ain't that the truth.  Many folks are having very good results.  I keep waiting for the word to go out ....BIG UH-OH!!  

Nothing yet.  We may really have something here.  I've been slow to get involved.  Admittedly for the reason I just mentioned.  Dolomite being a good friend, I'm putting his trials and tribulations to work for me.  When he gets it perfected, I'll ride the coat tail of his labors.  LOL  

He'll get it perfected cuz that's just how he is.  Then I'll play the copy cat game.  Kinda low down I know.  I'll send him some more boolits for his trouble :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

[JWC]

At least it ain't just me! The HF red I bought did the same exact thing and pissed me off 3 different times. I tried some Protec brand green pumpkin and gloss black i had for jigs and lures and it turned out good. Not sure wth is up with the HF red. The Protec jars aren't near as big but no more than it takes you can hit up the fishing section of Bass Pro and give it a shot.

[jaysouth]

Thanks, I'll check out BassPro in a couple of days for different colors.

[JWC]

I sent CSCoatings an email and they replied back right away that Protec Powder Paint is a Polyester TGIC powder.
It's the same (or virtually the same) as powder by the pound sells. I'd say it just costs more because of smaller packaging and marketing. But it is locally available. Do you think the problem we have with the red is just not enough acetone? My red just wouldn't mix with the acetone at all. It just was a glob and would stick to one or two book its and the rest wouln't get any of the coating on them. Edited June 21, 2013 by JWC

[Troutburger]

So the pro tec I use for fishing jigs is the same as harbor freight powder coat?

 

Glad i've been wasting $$$ on jig head paint...

[JWC]

I think technically it's the same. Could be finer or not as fine or something like that. Some guys on tackleunderground say it doesn't work as good, some say it's better. You know how that is... Of course HF only sells matte black, red, yellow, and white. I like pro tec on jigs cause it comes in brown, green pumpkin and stuff like that. It's expensive but a small jar will actually do a ton of jigs. If you're doing that many you ought to be buying elsewhere anyway.

When I figger this out I think HF paint will be fine. I believe I just ain't got it yet.

[Flyboy]

I have several 1 pound jars of the powder coating from CS(ie Pro-Tec). You can buy it from them in a pound jar for something like 10 to 12 bucks a pound.

That was 8 or so years ago, but the little jars at BPS where 3.99.

FlyBoy Edited June 23, 2013 by Flyboy

[c.a.willard]

Don't know much about powder coating, even less about powder coating for bullets.  But one of the older ways of powder coating is to heat the part and tumble it in the powder.  Apparently it adheres well in powder form to the heated material.  Dont know if this would be feasible for powder coating bullets or not, but it may make for a simpler process (not that this is seriously complicated).

[JWC]

Dipping coats them too thick.
A better way than dipping is to heat the object and take a paint brush, dip it in the powder and tap powder on without touching the brush to the object (like youre tapping off cigarette ashes) it works really well with fishing lures. Not so good with boolits, I tried. hard to get them consistent cause they're hard to hold.. And it's slow.
Dolomite's way is good.

[camp]

one interesting thing is i made some and tried them out on a cardboard target at 11 yards and the wife said they are making a smaller hole, and at 11 yards she was right they did appear to be smaller holes, up close it appears they did not rip as much going through the card board.

worked great for me still playing with it and have a batch in the oven now.

also walmart has a toaster oven for 21 and tax

[Luke E.]

Going to have to get on this pretty quick. I hate the alox and other lube for several reasons (it's nasty, the loaded rounds are sticky and nasty. It makes the inside of my magazines sticky causing dirt and grit to stick to them, just to name a few) but for lack of anything better i have been using them anyways. The fact that this may open up the use of pure lead is exciting as well not having to worry about POI changing to to varying amounts of lead in the barrel. Thanks for the write-up Dolomite!!

[Dolomite_supafly]

If your rounds are sticky you are using WAY, WAY too much Alox. The bullets should barely be discolored. I normally put 1/2 my bullets in a bucket then add what I think is enough Alox then I put the other 1/2 in and sometimes I still think I get too much on there.

 

I am doing this because I poisoned myself earlier this year with lead.

[Luke E.]

If your rounds are sticky you are using WAY, WAY too much Alox. The bullets should barely be discolored. I normally put 1/2 my bullets in a bucket then add what I think is enough Alox then I put the other 1/2 in and sometimes I still think I get too much on there.

 

I am doing this because I poisoned myself earlier this year with lead.

 In the pint size (or whatever the large size is) yogurt container half or a bit more full of bullets i add about 2-3 drops of Alox which you can barely tell a visual difference in color. I'm not meaning goupy thick amounts kind of sticky but the gullets do transfer some lube to the inside of the seating die and it transfers to the case of the next one and the next to the next. It is more lightly tacky rather than sticky i suppose but putting any less and i may as well not use any lube because there won't be enough to get down in the grooves of each bullets. Also if i reduce the amount any further, leading starts becoming a real issue. 

 Also with the Blackout build drawing to an end, from what you said this process will allowing me to cast bullets for my supersonic rounds without leading problems.

[Dolomite_supafly]

With Alox it doesn't need to get into the grooves, the grooves are for standard lube.

 

Either way it sounds like neither of us will use the stuff again.

[Dolomite_supafly]

One more thing.

 

I loaded some of those little 100 grain bullets that I said looked awful. I loaded them to a scientific term we shall call "Oh my God is this thing going to blow up in my hand" using my 300 Blackout bolt gun. (Not really but they were HOT!) I am not going to reveal the recipe because it likely ruined every single piece of brass I shot. And after firing a single shot in my AR I felt really bad and the AR load was eventually 1.5 grains less than the bolt gun max load.

 

I did this to see just how fast I can push these powder coated bullets before they start leading.

 

Well after about 20 rounds I had ZERO, NADA, NOTHING as far as lead goes in the bore. Something else is before I had some issues with molten lead at the case mouth and that is also gone.

[Luke E.]

One more thing.

I loaded some of those little 100 grain bullets that I said looked awful. I loaded them to a scientific term we shall call "Oh my God is this thing going to blow up in my hand" using my 300 Blackout bolt gun. (Not really but they were HOT!) I am not going to reveal the recipe because it likely ruined every single piece of brass I shot. And after firing a single shot in my AR I felt really bad and the AR load was eventually 1.5 grains less than the bolt gun max load.



I did this to see just how fast I can push these powder coated bullets before they start leading.

Well after about 20 rounds I had ZERO, NADA, NOTHING as far as lead goes in the bore. Something else is before I had some issues with molten lead at the case mouth and that is also gone.

That's awesome! About the clean barrel I mean. I'm assuming the answer will be no or you would have mentioned it but, is there any chance for PC transfer to a really hot AR barrel? Like say you dumped 3-4 mags through it in short order.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have no clue but I suspect the bullet would not be getting any heat transfer from the barrel unless it sat in a hot chamber for a while. I am not a mag dump kind of guy so I never thought about that.

[Guest sL1k]

Since there is no leading do you think these could be shot in a stock glock barrel ?

[Luke E.]

I have no clue but I suspect the bullet would not be getting any heat transfer from the barrel unless it sat in a hot chamber for a while. I am not a mag dump kind of guy so I never thought about that.

I very seldom do but mine get fired pretty heavy under two instances which are, 1- Sometimes i will lay a box of skeet all around a 3 sided pit and race through them and 2- I try to take as many "never shot before" people shooting as i can and they seem to love dumping a few mags through an AR pretty quick. My sister is engaged to an Irishmen and a couple weeks ago him and a friend were down from Toronto where they live and work. Now bear in mind Ireland has really strict gun laws and there is 1 non military owned 9mm pistol in the country and other than a few .22's that is not only the only 9mm but also the only non .22 pistol period!!! When i took them to the range they went through about 800 rounds of pistol, 300 rounds of .22lr, 400 rounds of .223 and about 200 rounds of 20ga. Needles to say it was a looong day! Anyways back to the point, After they shot the AR the barrel was some kinda hot and that on top of the normal bullet to barrel friction heat is what i was curious about. It seems you think this is probably a none issue and i tend to agree but thought i'd ask.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

When I was reading about the different types of plastic used in powder coat and laser toner last week, it appeared that some companies will powder-coat in teflon for special purpose parts, though I got the impression that is a higher-temp process. So if somebody wanted real slick temp-tolerant bullets then teflon might be an option.

 

Strangely, there is a wikipedia article on "cop killer bullets" which says one penetrator had a hard core with teflon coating to minimize ricochet off hard surfaces such as metal and glass. The designers said that the teflon did not improve penetration on vests, that the teflon actually made vest penetration worse, but some states banned teflon bullets anyway.

 

It said one of the carolinas banned teflon-coated bullets, but the other carolina was at least bright enough (dumb enough?) to ban PTFE or any other teflon-like substance. So if anybody hand-loaded teflon bullets they shouldn't visit the carolinas with any of their ammo. :)

 

In fact, lots of these plastics are purt slick, low coefficient of friction. So maybe some other plastic painted bullets would be considered "similar to PTFE" merely because of the low coefficient of friction?

 

So anyway, maybe teflon if folks are worried about temperature performance of the coating?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Caster]

Since there is no leading do you think these could be shot in a stock glock barrel ?

The guys over at castboolits say its working in poly barrels. Try at your own risk obviously......but I will be trying it.

[jaysouth]

Here again are the .309 160 Lee cast loads that I powder coated with Harbor Freight yellow powder coat paint and cured a couple of days ago.  Yes, they look green to me too, a very putrid green.

 

[URL=http://s4.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth/media/P6200040_zpsc63ed9f0.jpg.html][/URL]

 

Today I loaded some up in .308.  Those of you with sharp eyes will recognize that the 18 grs of 2400 and 29 grs of 3031 will not produce true jacketed bullet velocities, however both loads are in excess of the generally accepted leading threshold of 1400-1500 fps for cast bullets.  

 

[URL=http://s4.photobucket.com/user/jaysouth/media/P6240014_zps6b3715a8.jpg.html][/URL]

 

I will shoot these in my dedicated cast bullet gun, a Weatherby Vanguard S2.  I have had it a year and shot many many hundreds of cast loads out of it but NEVER a jacketed bullet load.  I  have developed a 165 gr. Ranch Dog cast load that shoots 2 MOA out of this rifle and 4 inches out of my hunting rifle, a Remington 7600P with a red dot sight.  Using this 1900 fps load, it has taken four deer with four shots between 20 feet and 50 yards.

 

My chore list will get caught up in a day or two and I will get to the range and give you a report.

[jaysouth]

I was able to go to the range today and test out the powder coated bullets.  The only thing that I learned today is that they are reasonable accurate and I have a good chance of working up a very accurate load approaching jacketed velocities.

 

There was no chronograph set up and I can only guess at the velocities by interpolating published data in the Lee Cast Bullet manual.

 

All were shot from my Vanguard S2 at 50 yards with a Leupold 3-9 set on 6 power.  Rifle was shot from a supported rest.  

 

To each target, I have attached the file card that I put in a plastic bag when loading the cartridges.  Also attached to each target is a soiled patch being pushed through the bore after five rounds.  A lot can be learned from watching and saving patches.  The biggest thing today is that there was no powder coating left in the barrel and that the barrel was free of leading after 30 rounds.

 

First up is a very accurate small game load at about 1100 fps.  As you can see there was a lot of soot in the barrel, likely from low pressure of the load.

 

Next is the target for the 18 grs. of 2400.  Not very accurate, but I suspect it was due to inconsistent powder coating and operator error.

 

 

Finally, the target shot with 3031.  I would estimate the velocity at 1800 fps.  A little bit cleaner than the loads with 2400 and more recoil.

 

 

As you can see, I have a long way to go, but there is promise for powder coating cast bullets.  All the bullets shot were sized to .309 after the powder coating was applied and cured.

 

The biggest issue, however, is expansion.  In the coming day, I am going to cast some bullets of very soft lead to see how well they shoot with powder coating.  A pure lead bullet going 2,000 fps that did not lead and was accurate and expanded well would be a woods hunters perfect round.  I would love to hear any comments,  especially suggestions about how I could do better.

[JWC]

9mm. Black look purty. Red are ugly but after I resized the sides were slick and just the tips are bumpy. Ima shoot em like they are.

[Caster]

My first go 'round this morning with P/C.  Mine were done with a P/C gun.  THe finish is fair but a little thin after sizing.  I think what I am going to do is get a .309 or .310 sizer then powder coat up to .311 and leave it be.  These were sized .311 then coated.  They came out .312 on the money.  If I size back to .3095 lets say, I could coat a little thicker AND eliminate a final sizing.  

 

They look worse in this picture than they really are.  I picked out the worst ones for the photo.

 

These are a hollow point conversion Lyman 311413 with a Hornady check.  They weigh in about 165g or so.