Powder coating the easy way

[Jct1911]

This thread bump needs a photo. All BBDT method. All 45's, 230's for the 1911's, 290's for the six guns.



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[Jct1911]

Works quite well in rifles too. These print about 1.1moa with mixed cases and no weight sorting.



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[Guest Glidercj]

I'm new to coating bullets but not to powder coating.

My understanding of leading a barrel relates to the softness (BHN) of the bullet with regards to the velocity.

Therefore the faster you go the hotter the gases behind the bullet. Since leading occurrs when the lead is too soft

and the charge is too hot the back of the bullet will melt as it proceeds down the barrel depositing lead on the barrel.

The other instance pertains to a bullet that is too hard and the charge is to low and the bullet no longer expands enough

to seal the barrel allowing hot gases to escape around the bullet hence melting the sides of the bullet.

This being said the use of gas checks eliminates both of these situations due to the fact that the copper cup seals the barrel and prevents

the bullet from melting.

With all of my research regarding PC bullets I see people coating all but the bottom and some coating all of the bullet.

Regarding my above statement of how lead is deposited has anyone ever considered just PCing the bottom or the bottom up to the lube groove?

That would have the same effect as a gas check or so it may seen.

The reason for my query is the effect of bullet performance in hunting applications. Seems to me a bullet that is fully PD'd will perform like a FMJ more

than a hard cast.

Also IR lamps will cure the PC without softening the bullet.

Has anyone considered these points I bring up?

Edited July 7, 2015 by Glidercj

[Omega]

I'm new to coating bullets but not to powder coating.

My understanding of leading a barrel relates to the softness (BHN) of the bullet with regards to the velocity.

Therefore the faster you go the hotter the gases behind the bullet. Since leading occurs when the lead is too soft

and the charge is too hot the back of the bullet will melt as it proceeds down the barrel depositing lead on the barrel.

The other instance pertains to a bullet that is too hard and the charge is to low and the bullet no longer expands enough

to seal the barrel allowing hot gases to escape around the bullet hence melting the sides of the bullet.

This being said the use of gas checks eliminates both of these situations due to the fact that the copper cup seals the barrel and prevents

the bullet from melting.

With all of my research regarding PC bullets I see people coating all but the bottom and some coating all of the bullet.

Regarding my above statement of how lead is deposited has anyone ever considered just PCing the bottom or the bottom up to the lube groove?

That would have the same effect as a gas check or so it may seen.

The reason for my query is the effect of bullet performance in hunting applications. Seems to me a bullet that is fully PD'd will perform like a FMJ more

than a hard cast.

Also IR lamps will cure the PC without softening the bullet.

Has anyone considered these points I bring up?

On mine I get leading if my bullet does not seal properly and gas gets around the bullet.  With a proper coating, PC or Ben's Liquid Lube I get no noticeable leading at all even when I push them quite fast. With some of my PC coated bullets the base is exposed and they are rather soft on the hardness scale, not pure but range scrap soft, but then again many FMJs have an exposed base too.  Some have taken to PC the bullets point down (non tumble method) leaving the tip exposed, but I think that's for expansion vs leading but IDK what results they are getting either way from that.

[Jamie Jackson]

We've been using (for 9mm) a .38 caliber mold and resizing to .357 after powder coating and have had great success with no pressure issues and definitely no leading concerns.

Several of our Glock barrels slugged out at .356 fwiw.

I initially pushed some rounds to 1300 fps just to see what would happen...slowly and incrementally and always chrono them...no problems at all. We run them (130 gr bullets) at about 1000fps now.

 

 

Dolo...we've kicked around the idea of casting and coating for 7.62x39. It seems like I've seen you mention doing this before.

What mold or mold size/weight would you recommend?

What have you found to be a good velocity to aim for?

[Guest Glidercj]

Thanks Omega and Dolomite for the feed back regarding PC and leading. Has anyone collected any PC bullet performance data regarding hunting? Just wondering if bullets that are entirely coating has different characteristics than that of a plain HC bullet?

I want to push a 45 LC HC (16BHN) 250gr. RF around the 1450-1500 FPS range without fear of leading and also a 300gr around 1400.

[Jamie Jackson]

Good info and suggestions Gordon. Thank you Sir.

 

I will definitely slug my barrels prior to going down this road. I have been able to achieve some phenomenal accuracy with an old Norinco AK and handloads in the past...1991 or '92 iirc...I'll have to check my notes later. But point being is that AK ammo being mass produced is so undersized in many cases it's a wonder AK's are as accurate (with factory ammo) as they are.

 

"Lee 2-Cavity Bullet Mold C312-155-2R". Roger that. :up:

 

I have never used gas checks, but will do on this project and hope it will turn into an unnecessary step. Time will tell.

 

I recall your info on pulling and using steel cases and I have that option in my mind. 7.62x39 brass is a challenge to find. Powder Valley has it for about $.34/piece...it's about the same on GunBroker...boxer primed of course.

 

It seems like there was a gut on Cast Boolits at one time selling once fired range brass and he carried 7.62x39. I kick myself in the butt for not ordering some from him, but iirc the brass was aboy $.25 each when he was listing it a couple of years ago.

If I run across an affordable source I'll PM you. I'm looking...

[Jamie Jackson]

Know what. PM me you address and I will send you an old mold I am no longer using. It is a single cavity I believe.

 

Darn Gordon, Thank you! Of course I'll cover the shipping Good Sir.  PM coming to you.

[A.J. Holst]

That Gordon is a good dude!

[Jamie Jackson]

That Gordon is a good dude!

 

Yes Sir. He certainly is. :up:

[Ammo Guy]

Hi,

Here's a wrinkle. I think the powder coating (PC) could be used on FMJ projectiles too. The reason is proper projectiles for the 6.5mm Carcano are limited. 160 gn FMJRN and RNSP. Carcano requires a .268 inch diameter projectile. All 6.5mm ,Swede etc, are .264 inch diameter.

The PC could add enough diameter to engage the rifling properly.

To prep the copper jacket I would acid wash the bullets with a vinegar, concentrated lemon juice, and Dawn dish detergent solution. This is excellent for cleaning brass, steel, and as well bullets! I think cleaning/etching the copper jackets would give the PC a better chance to stick.

Would it adhere well enough to survive higher pressure/velocity?

Thoughts/ideas would be appreciated.

The Ammo Guy 8-)

Aim small, miss small.

[ReeferMac]

Just thinking-- Laser toner even in bulk might be more expensive than powder coat paint, but mebbe you could coat bullets (or paint items) with laser toner? Or maybe you could even print with powder coat paint? Of course, even if you could paint with laser toner, you would have to either be happy with black, cyan, magenta or yellow, or maybe you could mix the powders for other colors.

 

Laser toner from Xerox contains wax and magnetic particles in addition to the plastic colorant chips (which are actually grown by bacteria nowadays... fascinating stuff!) I believe they are neccessary for the process (e.g. all brands are this way).

I dunno if that matters for the bullets, but I'd rather not put it through my barrel.

 

- K
 

[Dolomite_supafly]

When I first started powder coating bullets using solvent I would add other materials to the mix. I have tried boron nitride as well as powdered copper but could not see a difference in performance with or without.

[medicaus]

I have joined this forum initially to simply read this thread... initially.

I then realised what a supportive and wonderful bunch of guys you all, pushing into new territory particularly for rifle bullets.

I'm casting for a 243, 90 grain cast bullet, and given a 243 relies massively on it's BC it's motivated me to make my own molds and powdercoat using the laquer thinner method. I have recently seen people dumping the hot bullets out of the oven back into water i just wondered what you all thought of that. I will definitely post my results!

Thank you all so much on your persistence getting this to work! Did anyone work out a good alloy for around 3000fps for hunting? Cheers!

[medicaus]

Hey fellas I'm bout to cast my first loads with wheel weights, water quenched and another group of 25 with a small quantity of Babbitt then powdercoat. I'll be using a Cast Bullet Engineering 90grain mold in 243. I was wondering what a good starting load recommendation might be for around 2800fps using Ar2208 or 2209- I won't be using gas checks. I also have a custom mold coming for a 243 with a flat base but it's still a while off. I'll powder coat with your lacquer thinner method and try also a shake n bake method. Thanks for any and all tips on loads. 

Regards

Jim.

[Jamie Jackson]

Welcome aboard medicaus! Glad to have you here at TGO.

We (our small group) have cast and powder coated many thousands of 9mm and .38 cal handgun rounds. We've experimented in a small manner with 7.62x39 rounds.

 

It just seems to be to be a very tedious endeavor to cast and coat such small bullets as .223/5.56 and .243...especially for hunting rounds with the ready availability of quality commercially produced and proven bullets.

I mention .223/5.56 because we briefly considered it, but passed on the concept.

As I see you are in Brisbane, Australia...do you have difficulty in obtaining commercial bullets? Or is this just a path you choose do take?

 

Sorry I don't have any advice to offer on your project.

[medicaus]

Hey mate,

Its not that they are hard to get, just that rifle bullets (particularly 243) are rather expensive projectiles, normally around 60 dollars for 100.

Since I work 12 hour days when I get home casting seems like a fun and economical pass time. I would be lying if I didn't love the scientific process of testing and maybe coming up with a good alloy. 223 projectiles are dirt cheap and not worth the hassle. I plan to shoot a lot of pistol and 308 so I will want to find an economical alloy for that too. One issue is there is in some places over 1000 roos per acre, which makes centerfire hunting prohibitively expensive on mass culls. The 17hmr or even 22lr has been knocking down roos with well placed shots for a century, however for 17hmr at $17 dollars per 50 even that adds up. If I can cast cheap enough I can be hunting without getting the wife mad.

I got on the lathe and turned up a fitting i can weld into a lee press to turn 22lr rounds into brass jackets and make my own die for hollow point 243 rounds, but I want to see how powdercoating plain cast bullets goes first, I saw an excellent video of a guy on youtube taking the brass jackets and simply filling them with cast lead in a mold designed to achieve the right point. Fantastic idea i'm reserving for now.

Right now I want to see if I can hit 3000fps with an accurate bullet, and i'm hoping with the right WW + babbit alloy and a powdercoat we can get there.

[Jamie Jackson]

Thank you medicus. 

Wow my friend. That makes sense to me. I can see how it could rapidly become cost prohibitive purchasing the projectiles.

There is definitely a sense of accomplishment in "making your own" in any regards.

 

Dolomite is hand's down one of the most knowledgeable and helpful individuals I know of. He's obviously a busy man, but hopefully he can offer some suggestions and info when he finds the time. I hold the gentleman in high regards.

 

Keep us posted along your journey medicus. 

[ReeferMac]

On 9/29/2016 at 2:44 AM, medicaus said:

I have joined this forum initially to simply read this thread... initially.

I then realised what a supportive and wonderful bunch of guys you all, pushing into new territory particularly for rifle bullets.

 

Welcome Medicaus, you've found one of the nice corners of the internet. Good to have you aboard, mate!

 

- Kevin