carrying without a permit

[mikegideon]

Considering that you are on the receiving end of policies back by Republicans and Democrats, perhaps the Libertarian Party would be worth a look.

However, to your original question, yes, people carry without a permit, and many people with permits carry in places they know they are not legally allowed to do so.  When government passes a law, it's only as good as the willingness of people to follow it, the ability and willingness of police to enforce it, and the willingness and ability of the court to prosecute it.  When government passes laws that many see as unjust (as a friend of mine stated in a post on a political blog we have, justice and legality are not necessarily the same thing) people will be far more likely to choose to ignore it.  As a disclaimer, I'm not suggesting that is necessarily a wise or legitimate way to handle it, but that is reality.

 

ANY law is useless without enforcement. That's why so many ancient, ridiculous laws are still on the books. It's also why most current and future gun control laws won't work.

[Guest confidence]

thinking to myself and was wondering if a lot of people will do, wither because they don't want to go through the trouble of getting the permit, or they don't want the state, feds etc to know all their business?  The bad guys do and don't care but I was wondering how many good guys do because of the above reasons, or some other reason, and what the consequences are. 

 

Ron

 

I have heard that there are lots of people in my area who carry without a permit.

 

I have an HCP and comply with the law because I don't feel like I have much of a choice. For those who posted that HCP=law abiding and no HCP=criminal: Remember, the 2nd Amendment is not what grants us the right to bear arms and neither does an HCP. The right to bear arms is a God given right that existed even before the Constitution ever existed. It's completely bogus that the government makes us get a permit to carry. Sure, I comply. But it's still ridiculous.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Big Boy Rules? Don't you mean GOVERNMENT Rules?

No...Government rules are...."Be a Good Boy and Obey"

 

Big boy rules are "Do whatever you like...but be prepared to deal with the consequences if the worst happens".

[TMF]

^^^^_ THIS +1

I've always tried to drill into my sons heads how important it is for your marijuana to be sub distribution weights, your machine guns legally registered and your STILL BREATHING hookers to be properly seated and restrained in accordance with the seatbelt laws.

Parenting win right there. I hope you also explained to him not to show up anywhere with grass, hookers and machineguns unless he's willing to share.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I have heard that there are lots of people in my area who carry without a permit.

 

I have an HCP and comply with the law because I don't feel like I have much of a choice. For those who posted that HCP=law abiding and no HCP=criminal: Remember, the 2nd Amendment is not what grants us the right to bear arms and neither does an HCP. The right to bear arms is a God given right that existed even before the Constitution ever existed. It's completely bogus that the government makes us get a permit to carry. Sure, I comply. But it's still ridiculous.

 

My own personal opinion is that the ability to arm and defend yourself is a basic human right not subject to government approval.........unfortunately the state of Tn does not agree with that and THEY are who will be prosecuting you if caught with a loaded and concealed gun. 

 

You can build a house without getting a building permit too.....but that won't go well for you either.  

 

As to whether someone who carries without a permit is a criminal....To clarify, I said that the powers that be tend to look at the armed person with no HCP as a criminal because since it is so easy to get one then why wouldn't you if you could legally? I have friends who work for local PD and they say THAT is the prevailing thought on the matter and as such if you get caught....you are going to get arrested. We may not LIKE that but reality is reality. Fire is hot whether we like it or not. My own personal feelings will not get me out of jail free and carrying without a permit is a game of Russian roulette....eventually you might get caught...so do what you want...just be prepared for the consequences.

[Ron Padilla]

Whoee I guess I kinda stirred up a hornets nest with this question, well keep em coming some have been very interesting.

[Guest confidence]

My own personal opinion is that the ability to arm and defend yourself is a basic human right not subject to government approval.........unfortunately the state of Tn does not agree with that and THEY are who will be prosecuting you if caught with a loaded and concealed gun. 

 

You can build a house without getting a building permit too.....but that won't go well for you either.  

 

As to whether someone who carries without a permit is a criminal....To clarify, I said that the powers that be tend to look at the armed person with no HCP as a criminal because since it is so easy to get one then why wouldn't you if you could legally? I have friends who work for local PD and they say THAT is the prevailing thought on the matter and as such if you get caught....you are going to get arrested. We may not LIKE that but reality is reality. Fire is hot whether we like it or not. My own personal feelings will not get me out of jail free and carrying without a permit is a game of Russian roulette....eventually you might get caught...so do what you want...just be prepared for the consequences.

 

Which is why I have an HCP. Just ranting a bit about how ridiculous it is that the state of Tennessee requires it.

[Ron Padilla]

the saga has ended, with the state coming to their senses and issuing my permit, it should be here in a few days.

Thanks for all the replys

[Oh Shoot]

the saga has ended, with the state coming to their senses and issuing my permit, it should be here in a few days.

Thanks for all the replys

 

Outstanding. Thanks for keeping us tuned into the saga.

 

- OS

[Guest TankerHC]

Fwiw, a friend of mine who was a therapist at a VA clinic says 90% of vietnam vets carry and illegally at VA Clinics. Even though none will admit a lot of older guys carry illegally everyday.

 

I can believe remote Clinics like the one in Chattanooga. But your not getting into a hospital or Regional Office armed with a metal toothpick. The primary cause of that, a patient in Jackson MS went into Sonny Montgomery several years ago (It was longer than that, I cant remember the year, but since I retired) and blew his doctors head off. Thats when the metal detectors went in. One of the best Doctors in the Hospital, friend of mine who is also a Doctor and worked with him as an intern told me recently he was one of the few who really cared about the Vets, didnt head for the parking lot at 4:59:30.

[Guest confidence]

didnt head for the parking lot at 4:59:30.

 

Ahem. 16:59:30.

[Pcdokk]

Very interesting commentary on this thread both pro and con. IMHO the Constitution grants everyone the right to protect themselves but in todays political climate and with the level of violence everywhere you turn (read the news.....) it's an individuals choice to carry or not to carry. I have no right to judge or to be judged for my personal decision BUT as others have stated I have absolutely no desire to buy some attorney a new Mercedes or swimming pool because I was detained and arrested for carrying a loaded weapon without a permit. I don't particularly enjoy having to pay for the privilege or legally protecting myself but I choose to play by the rules, bite my tongue and do what keeps me legally protected to the best of my ability.

[Pat]

Well, I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but I thought of something today... I've read you can carry on property you own, rent or lease...

 

Well, what about in my case? I'm 19 years old - that by itself may affect something for all I know - and I do live with my parents while I go through school. I don't yet actually own the property, they do, although I do reside here. Would any of that disqualify me from being able to carry a gun with no issue?

 

I thought of this after an encounter with a li'l copperhead while mowing the grass today... strapping on a handgun in the event of some surprise event seems logical to me, man or beast, but I don't want to be unlawful. I would love to go through life smelling of roses, y'know!

[Oh Shoot]

Well, I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but I thought of something today... I've read you can carry on property you own, rent or lease...

 

Well, what about in my case? I'm 19 years old - that by itself may affect something for all I know - and I do live with my parents while I go through school. I don't yet actually own the property, they do, although I do reside here. Would any of that disqualify me from being able to carry a gun with no issue?

 

I thought of this after an encounter with a li'l copperhead while mowing the grass today... strapping on a handgun in the event of some surprise event seems logical to me, man or beast, but I don't want to be unlawful. I would love to go through life smelling of roses, y'know!

 

Where you get "own, rent, lease"?

 

" 39-17-1308.  Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.
... It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:
... At the person's:
.... Place of residence;"

 

Under lawful conditions, even a minor may possess a loaded firearm.

 

- OS

   

Edited September 13, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[KahrMan]

Where you get "own, rent, lease"?

 

" 39-17-1308.  Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.
... It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:
... At the person's:
.... Place of residence;"

 

Under lawful conditions, even a minor may possess a loaded firearm.

 

- OS

   

Does that mean you have to have a permit to carry on property you own but do not live at?

[Pat]

Where you get "own, rent, lease"?

 

" 39-17-1308.  Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.
... It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:
... At the person's:
.... Place of residence;"

 

Under lawful conditions, even a minor may possess a loaded firearm.

 

- OS

   

 

Whoops! I must've read an erroneous post, or misread a correct post, or... something. Thanks for the answer!

[Oh Shoot]

Does that mean you have to have a permit to carry on property you own but do not live at?

 

Geez, you never read the statute either? ;)

 

(also lists "Premises", which would suggest pretty much any legally controlled property).

 

- OS

Edited September 13, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[daddyo]

I am pro-constitutional carry and am of the opinion that having to get the state's permission to exercise my constitution right to keep and bear arms is unconstitutional. But until they change the law, I choose to obey the law and keep my permit valid.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Don't worry about that permit in the future. The way society is heading, we will see a time when no one has

the time or patience to worry about that permit. They'll just worry about whether or not you are a friend or foe.

 

Asking permission for the right to keep and bear arms was the worst step we allowed our elected representatives

to "give us, in this state. I won't go into my national viewpoint. Hey, we made our bed.

[bersaguy]

Ok I want someone to explain this to me. The Constitution gives every American(legal American) the right to keep and bear arms. That I understand to a point Keep I understand very well, it is the bear part I have not really got clear. It does not say Keep and carry arms in the Constitution. Is the definition in the Constitution the same as carry or does it mean you can bear it in response to the protection of you and your family and property in and around your property or does it mean right to carry in public?  That is something I have been wondering and hope that someone can explain it in terms an old kinda dumb guy like me can understand......... :popcorn: :popcorn:
 

[Hershmeister]

Ok I want someone to explain this to me. The Constitution gives every American(legal American) the right to keep and bear arms. That I understand to a point Keep I understand very well, it is the bear part I have not really got clear. It does not say Keep and carry arms in the Constitution. Is the definition in the Constitution the same as carry or does it mean you can bear it in response to the protection of you and your family and property in and around your property or does it mean right to carry in public? That is something I have been wondering and hope that someone can explain it in terms an old kinda dumb guy like me can understand......... :popcorn: :popcorn:

To bear is a verb the same as to carry


If you want to understand the legal issues around 2A take some time to read The heller and McDonald opinions. They're actually very readable - you don't have to be a lawyer to understand them and they provide an excellent history lesson on gun control/laws in the USA since our founding

Heller:

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

McDonald

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf

[bersaguy]

To bear is a verb the same as to carry


If you want to understand the legal issues around 2A take some time to read The heller and McDonald opinions. They're actually very readable - you don't have to be a lawyer to understand them and they provide an excellent history lesson on gun control/laws in the USA since our founding

Heller:

http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/07-290.pdf

McDonald

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf

 

Thanks and that answered my questions very well............... :up: :up:

[Twin]

The 11/29 is frequently reduced to 1 day. Or that is what the judge told me when we toured the courthouse during recess. Which I then saw him do several times while in the courtroom. Just an FYI

 

Unlawful carry in public in TN is a Class A misdemeanor,  up to 11/29 in jail and/or fine up to $2500.

 

You actually took the course, did the application, and then was denied? And they specifically informed you that was the reason?

 

That particular  misdemeanor charge (or conviction) in Kali is not a disqualifer for a TN permit, must be something else going on. Perhaps it was because there is no final record of that case being settled?

 

- OS