Whisle blower or treason ?

[Guest Cazador]

I say Bradley Manning is a traitor. The media seems to think he is another blower that is deserving honors.

[TMF]

Treason. What whistle did he blow? He indiscriminately transmitted as much classified secret/top secret information as he could get his hands on... just for chits and grins. He needs to be hung, publicly.

[enfield]

Both it seems.  I'd go for the public hanging.

[Major Kong]

Traitor.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

This different one who worked at the NSA may be something quite different, though.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

 

What do you think about this? I'm not sure if he divulged any secrets, but I am concerned where our

country is headed, especially when someone like this asks questions. I can't wait to hear the gov. on

explaining how they intend to deal with him, if he is still alive. the article says he is in Hong Kong, at the

moment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588403/man-claiming-to-be-nsa-whistleblower-comes-forward/

Edited June 10, 2013 by 6.8 AR

[Joseg]

6.8, the problem here is that Manning divulged info to wikipedia which contained detailed operational information and videos, state department communication and assessments. Just because he didn't like the Army or didn't like the war.

 

The NSA leaker, shed light on a program that taps into anyone's data/communication in the US, not in an operational theater, sure it could be used over there, but tapping into US Citizens without a Warrant is violation of our Constitutional Rights, sure is he culpable for sharing top secret information, yes he is, but I would not put him on par with Manning.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

6.8, the problem here is that Manning divulged info to wikipedia which contained detailed operational information and videos, state department communication and assessments. Just because he didn't like the Army or didn't like the war.

 

The NSA leaker, shed light on a program that taps into anyone's data/communication in the US, not in an operational theater, sure it could be used over there, but tapping into US Citizens without a Warrant is violation of our Constitutional Rights, sure is he culpable for sharing top secret information, yes he is, but I would not put him on par with Manning.

I agree. That's why I tacked it on to this thread. It is bound to be tied together, which is what the articles are

already doing.

 

I listened to comments on this latest one and was really sickened by the comments coming from the government

about "disappearing him", but that was expected. This guy needs to have his story get out real well. We need to

start dealing with our government harshly if this stuff is true. I can see the McCains and the Shumers sitting next

to each other lusting for this kind of power.

[leroy]

The NSA guy did us all a favor.  He confirmed what lots of folks thought.  Now the "overlords" are gonna have to explain it, and those who say they believe in the Bill or Rights are gonna have to fight it.  We'll see what happens.

 

leroy

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Video of the NSA blower Edward Snowden explaining himself can be viewed here--

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2013/jun/09/nsa-whistleblower-edward-snowden-interview-video

 

IMO it is well worth 12.5 minutes to watch. Maybe he is just another attention-seeking whackjob, but he gives impression of being a lot more smarter than most of our fearless leaders, and his opinons seem closer to mine than most of our fearless leaders. We'd be better off with Senator Edward Snowden rather than Senator Bob Corker.

 

After all, Dianne Feinstein supports the NSA program. As does that dweeb RINO statist Lindsey Graham. Is this a case of "a broken clock is right twice a day"? I'm of the opinion that one can more reliably pick the correct answer merely by making sure that your answer doesn't agree with either Feinstein, McCain, or Graham's answer. :)

 

BTW, drudgereport.com today has LOTS of articles on the NSA deal.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'll go this far. Snowden is a patriot, whichever side of the aisle he votes with, because he did something most people

wouldn't question, nowadays, about some of the things we have been allowing our government to get away with. You

have to remember that a government is like a blob. All it wants to do is grow. That power thing is all in the growth.

 

We have only assumed the ways our government has snooped on our citizens. Now there is evidence. I wonder, with

all the technology available to the government, how that can sway an election? Rhetorical, okay? Erick Schmidt is

starting a progressive organization just for the purposes of continuing the ways of the liberals, using data mining

and other digital age technology. Just heard about this one today, also. Makes one wonder just how crazy Alex

Jones really is, doesn't it? Of course, to me, it is only the messenger who takes the credit or is condemned by how

the message is delivered. Some don't seem to see it that way.

[Jonnin]

Traitor.   There is no evidence that the bulk of the leaks from this guy were to expose misconduct.  A couple of them, maybe could be excused this way but most of it had no business being published.

 

The guy this week, however, is a hero and a patriot.  The govt has no business collecting data in this manner.

[Slpeod]

Manning - traitor.  Snowden not a traitor; I will agree with 6.8; he's more of a Patriot. 

 

The current goverment expansion of programs and involvement is out of control at a time when they should be shrinking. The justification that this is to prevent acts of terrorism is another form of pathetic social bondage.  These programs that we tolerate continue to allow the government to erode our rights and will ultimately destroy our country.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Slpeod

[TMF]

The media is already trying to compare the NSA leaker to Manning. Their cases and causes couldn't be any more different. The leaker at the NSA broke some very serious laws and we may well see him punished severely for it. It will be interesting to see how that plays out it the political arena.

I'm waiting to see how this will change the amount of transparency with secret courts when it comes to overstepping the Constitution. It raises a very interesting question... how do you challenge a Constitutionally unjust intrusion if the public is to never know it took place? The center of all this will be the judge(s) who approved these various orders. If not for them this never would have happened.

As for the actions of the NSA, they were blessed off on by a judge, so I don't think they hold any culpability here in regard to their actions. As far as they're concerned they were acting within the law, so this whistleblower didn't expose illegal conduct and won't be protected from prosecution. But an interesting thought, what if they don't prosecute him simply because of the media attention here? How destructive would it be to Obama if Holder went after this guy? I figure it'll make Obama look much worse. Either way, I think this will be the story to follow.

[Sam1]

This different one who worked at the NSA may be something quite different, though.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/09/edward-snowden-nsa-whistleblower-surveillance

 

What do you think about this? I'm not sure if he divulged any secrets, but I am concerned where our

country is headed, especially when someone like this asks questions. I can't wait to hear the gov. on

explaining how they intend to deal with him, if he is still alive. the article says he is in Hong Kong, at the

moment.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57588403/man-claiming-to-be-nsa-whistleblower-comes-forward/

 

 

Yeah, this new guy spoke about capabilities and processes.  That Manning guy did a complete dump of specific data, there is a HUGE difference between the two.

[Dustbuster]

id wait to see what kind of damage occurs... i think hes more of an informant than traitor as traitors sell secrets for profit.In this case,for face value,all he did was rat out the nsa and verizon...........as far as eavesdropping goes, people need to read that 30 page piece of crap they throw in the bag when u leave the verizon store.Its called a service agreement. look at what u really consent to LOL NSA is only an ice cube in the iceberg...........the more i think about it, snowden did nothing more than a kid in a crap neighborhood would do: letting the hood know that the po po is watchin......in all essence.he did have a clearance,and he knew what the consequences are for releasing sensitive info..........so , hes now gonna be like the kid that got his ass kicked by the po po for blowing their cover...

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Treason, no not at all IMO. To me treason has to in some way cause or the actions attempt to cause harm to the US. The Military has already stated that they cannot show that any of this has or will cause any harm. Law breaker, yes. Hero, maybe but a stupid one. I think instead of doing a dump he should picked out a few very specific items to get his point across. I commend him for what he did given he knew what the consequences could be. At least he did think about what he was dumping as record and not data on anything in the future.

[Guest Cazador]

Causing harm? If you release any classified military info to anyone not on the need to know list you have committed a crime. Creating harm is no where in the rules you sign your John Henry to when you get a security clearance. I held a top security clearance when I served. The info or items I worked with were only exposed to the people that worked there. My MSGYSGT did not have clearance (for a short time after transferring in) to enter some areas. It was quite comical to tell him "sorry you are not on the list" when you get cleared I will tell you what is going on. If manning had gone up the chain of command with his complaints and got no resolve he could have contacted his state rep or senator. If after that he would have either been removed from his position or suck it up and live with it.

I told my wife Manning should be in front of a firing line with no blind fold, he is a scum bag.

Snowden exposed a Govt that has run amuck. Broken a trust between the people and acts like it's no big deal. Our constitutional rights were to protect us from tyranny and they trampled that by using liberal judges and a guise of security.

[seez52]

The more all this sort of stuff comes out the more one wonders. Wonders (yes 6.8) if Alex Jones is right more times than not, and maybe DHS is buying up all the ammo so we can't get any. When that was floated around I thought "no way that's crazy" now it's beginning to look more like it's in the realm of possibility.

[Guest Wildogre]

Two books that people should read are the Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets by James Bamford. Other than that not sure I can comment much further. 

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Creating harm is no where in the rules you sign your John Henry to when you get a security clearance.

If manning had gone up the chain of command with his complaints and got no resolve he could have contacted his state rep or senator. If after that he would have either been removed from his position or suck it up and live with it.

 

Snowden exposed a Govt that has run amuck. Broken a trust between the people and acts like it's no big deal. Our constitutional rights were to protect us from tyranny and they trampled that by using liberal judges and a guise of security.

No it isn't, he broke the law. But not in a treasonous way. Who did he betray? The American people? Seems to me he did us a favor. Also when he joined he took an oath to uphold and protect the constitution and by exposing some of the stuff he did he is doing just that. Not saying this should go unpunished but you have to weigh the good and the bad here. Yes he released "classified" information/videos but whom did harm by doing so? Just those that were breaking the rules or covering for the ones that did.

Manning did go up the chain of command and was told to "drop it". Even though he took the evidence of some of the atrocities to someone to hold the people accountable he was basically told to forget it ever happened. Again, he was exposing violations. He may have taken it too far with the amount of info he leaked but intentions were noble and no one can be harmed by the info he leaked other than the rule breakers.

As for Snowden vs Manning, who is it that draws that line on what is acceptable and what isn't? It is on the individual to decide right from wrong. As for me, if it doesn't cause someone physical harm (such as military ops or top secrete weapon blue prints etc you know what I mean) then the information should be made public. I am for 99.999% government, including military, transparency.

[Grand Torino]

I think if this guy knows for a fact that laws were broken and he can name names with proof then we have a right to know it. Of course getting anyone to pay for the sin is problematic. The only amendment the administration seems fond of is the fifth.

 

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Both guys, as far as I know, not being a lawyer or knowing much of the cases, most likely broke the law and can be charged.

 

On the other hand, fellas get the medal of honor, heroes, for saving comrades by jumping on grenades and such. So perhaps breaking the law and getting thrown in jail or executed, "for a greater good" could make a fella simultaneously a criminal and hero?

 

Am not ruling out that the NSA blower might be blowing some smoke, mis-stating some details, etc. Also possibly he is a "well-disguised" mere attention hound out for his 60 seconds of fame. Some "off the record experts" have claimed that some of the fella's statements seem highly unlikely. On the other hand, it doesn't seem that the authorities would be quite so agitated if the fella is peddling a fabricated tale about the NSA programs. What do they care if some loon comes out with a self-aggrandizing tale of complete fiction? If that Prism project doesn't really exist, or if it doesn't do anything like what is alleged, no skin off their nose, except the task of outing a liar.

 

But his live interview gives more an impression of a fairly solid libertarian who has took all he will take.

 

Possibly he wouldn't mind being arrested and charged. In court, his defense lawyer would have rights to "discovery". The govt might not be real eager to cough up such discovery requests, if the lawyer has been coached what to ask for.

 

On Manning and Julian Assange, some of the same may apply, though they give appearance of more flakey self-aggrandizement. Many of the wikileaks stories were grist for the right-wing machine. Fox news really enjoyed poking some of the illegally released wikileaks stuff in the admin's eye.

 

So sure Manning and Assange are also law-breakers or at least very annoying gadflies. But like the NSA whistleblower, they released a lot of tidbits we would have never known, that we are glad we now know. So they broke the law telling us stuff we were never supposed to know, that we appreciate knowing. Muddy territory.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We have both sides of the aisle saying he is a traitor, now, so Snowden is likely aggravating the power structure,

knowing the systems are being used to "spy" on us instead of fighting terrorism. Well, if they are like Napolitano,

they view us as terrorists if we challenge their cushy power structure.

 

Just about everything DC is shrouded in some kind of security level clearance. It is a great breeding ground for

tyranny to grow. some things need to be classified, but not when Boehner or Pelosi sneezed inside some secret

meeting. Some of the things written about the NSA in the past really concern me, FBI, also. I realize the need for

some things to be kept out of the light of day, but the times we live in, and the people we allow to hold public

office are not worthy to protect those secrets, especially when some of those secrets are about things that are

used against the people who pay the bills.

 

Our government has grown to the point of arrogancy and mistrust and is in dire need of a little shrinkage by

honorable leadership.

[Chucktshoes]

We have both sides of the aisle saying he is a traitor, now, so Snowden is likely aggravating the power structure,
knowing the systems are being used to "spy" on us instead of fighting terrorism. Well, if they are like Napolitano,
they view us as terrorists if we challenge their cushy power structure.

Just about everything DC is shrouded in some kind of security level clearance. It is a great breeding ground for
tyranny to grow. some things need to be classified, but not when Boehner or Pelosi sneezed inside some secret
meeting. Some of the things written about the NSA in the past really concern me, FBI, also. I realize the need for
some things to be kept out of the light of day, but the times we live in, and the people we allow to hold public
office are not worthy to protect those secrets, especially when some of those secrets are about things that are
used against the people who pay the bills.

Our government has grown to the point of arrogancy and mistrust and is in dire need of a little shrinkage by honorable leadership accurate marksmanship.

FTFY. Edited June 11, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And at the rate they are going, it will be inevitable.

 

Peter King, R-NY, is saying Snowden needs to be brought back and prosecuted, publicly, but I'll bet he is one

of those Republicans who thinks Snowden needs to be disappeared. Boehner jumped on the bandwagon of

him being a traitor, also, but isn't the President responsible for Benghazi, IRS stopping conservative groups 501c4

applications and Fast and Furious just as, or more guilty of treason?

 

This power play in DC is going to have drastic and long lasting results, like they haven't been in the making for

long before the Patriot Act. Executive orders by presidents, for a hundred years, have been killing this country,

along with unjust laws being passed. I don't know what to think anymore.