Killer Tree Help

[Clod Stomper]

Does anyone know a lumber company in or around Knoxville who mills their own lumber?  Here's my situation...

 

Right next to the house, a huge oak died this year.  It's been dropping widowmakers already.  Probably because it's been so wet and one large limb was already dead.  I can't afford what it would cost for a professional to take it down right now.  BUT it has a straight trunk for about 30 feet with only one major flaw.  It should have some good boards.  SO, I'm going to try to find out approximately what the trunk itself would be worth and negotiate with a tree company to offset the cost of taking it down.  

 

Does that sound like a good idea?

 

I would fell it myself, but there is only one way it can fall and there is one huge limb that would do some serious damage to the house.

 

I did a search, but I can't tell which, if any, lumber companies mill lumber and could give me an approximate value.

 

Thanks for any suggestions

 

Will

[Lumber_Jack]

Well unfortunately most mills are not interested in one tree, simply because there is no profit to be made. By the time they pay the labor to cut and haul the tree all profit is gone and probably be in the red.

Does the tree have value...yes. But it's very difficult to extract that value when you only have 1, and it's so labor intensive to fell.

Also I would bet a substantial amount of money that the trunk is hollow in the center. If the tree was alive and well I wouldn't say that, but since it has died, it's a very likely scenario.

I would call tree removal companies and get quotes. There is easily as much value in firewood as there is in lumber. Maybe call some landscaping type places that deal in firewood and see what they say.

Otherwise you're probably just gonna have to pay to have it cut. Edited June 8, 2013 by Lumber_Jack

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I'll be interested in the responses you get, though dunno nothin about knoxville.

 

The man who has deadwooded our trees for years and occasionally takes one down. Its expensive but cheaper than the alternative. A fine fella and interesting to talk with.

 

Was talking to him when he was over yesterday, to estimate deadwooding and taking down one small tree the insurance company doesn't like.

 

Had talked with him before about milling lumber but he hasn't time to fool with it, and I finally got a small chainsaw mill for smaller logs I hope to start using to keep myself in wood.

 

Yesterday we were talking about the high price of lumber at stores and smalltime chainsaw milling, and he said he hadn't run into any "business connection" in chatt where it was economical to sell off nice trees he cuts, to sawmills around here. He said the mills don't want to pay squat for the trees, regardless of how expensive the finished wood is in the lumber stores. So whoever is making the profit, it isn't the guys who own the trees or cut em down. Except I suppose for tree farmers in the biz.

 

In an earlier thread, someone said that lumber mills are not real interested in urban trees regardless of how many board feet of fine hardwood they contain, because they are too likely to contain metal that would mess up their saw blades. I don't know if that is true but sounds believable.

 

edit: Made my reply before seeing Lumber_Jack's informative post.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[Lumber_Jack]

Lester, your statement about lumber prices vs log prices are true. When was the last time you saw a logger driving a fancy new truck and living in a big house?....not very often.

Another problem guys would run into is how the logs are scaled. You're at the mercy of the mill as to how much they pay. And the logs are too heavy to drive it all over to price shop.

[gregintenn]

Some things are well worth paying a professional to do. This sounds like one of those things.

[Clod Stomper]

Thanks everyone.  

 

What I had in mind was getting an idea of its value from a lumber company.  THEN, try to get the tree service to cut the price by what THEY could sell the log for.  But it sounds like they may not be able to get that much.  Oh well.  

 

I'll get a tree service out here to give me an estimate.  Even if I could get them to take off one or two big limbs, I could drop it myself without destroying the house or outbuilding.  

 

Thanks,

 

Will

[Dolomite_supafly]

Most tree trimmers I have seen do not haul away logs. They cut the tree up in maneage pieces and hall it off.

 

I have done a lot of tree cutting with my family and friends and I heave never seen an oak larger than 2' in diameter that did not have some rot in the middle. And any amount of rot makes the log useless as they are not going to take the time to cut it so to avoid the rot.

 

I have also spent a lot of time on a sawmill and most will not do a single tree or even a dozen trees unless the person brings it to the mill and agrees to pay for every nail that is hit. And I can tell you the millers I knew would not even think about cutting up a tree that came out of a yard for that reason. I had a friend that took in about a hundred smaller trees about 12" in diameter. The person agreed to pay for the nail hits. Well after about the 4th band was ruined it was obvious the trees came off a fenced property line. My friend was out the cost of the blades when the guy refused to pay unless all the lumber was cut up. You would be surprized what people put in the crooks of trees when they are younger. We have found glass bottles, money, metal rods and even concrete.

[Patton]

Your out of luck, you might be able to give it away for firewood once it has been dropped on the frond into manageable lengths.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I recall when I was a kid on grandad's farm, there were pretty sizeable trees with barb wire fencing still up, going about straight thru the tree. When I was chainlink fencing my back acre woods for the dawgs, the fence was long gone but I saw pieces of rusted off fence wire sticking out of some of the oaks, still pretty much at expected "fence level".

 

So, wonder if one could avoid the majority of metal hits by not trying to rip any part of the tree below about 6 or 8 feet? The two cases I saw, it looks like the metal "stayed put" at about the same level and didn't grow upward with the tree. So if that is the way it works, then unless somebody had climbed up into a tree to put nails in it, perhaps the upper part would have low probability of having lots of metal?

[Mike.357]

I had a dead 100 foot hickory taken down over a year ago.  IIRC I paid $500 just to get it put on the ground.   I had to deal with all the mess and cut up the usable wood.

Took a few days of burning the sticks and chainsawing what was usable into logs for firewood.  The guy came in with a small crew and a bucket truck.  They did exactly what I asked him to do.

 

I dug through my rolodex and found the guys card.  

 

Reds Tree Service- 865-687-8927

 

You will never find anyone to come get it for processing.  I got a hundred trees and no one is interested.

[Clod Stomper]

Oh well.  Looks like it's going to be firewood.  Biggest thing is getting it down without hitting the house.  I won't be giving away the firewood, though, unless it's to a friend.  I'll burn it myself.  Or sell it.

 

Thanks,

 

Will

[Clod Stomper]

I had a dead 100 foot hickory taken down over a year ago.  IIRC I paid $500 just to get it put on the ground.   I had to deal with all the mess and cut up the usable wood.

Took a few days of burning the sticks and chainsawing what was usable into logs for firewood.  The guy came in with a small crew and a bucket truck.  They did exactly what I asked him to do.

 

I dug through my rolodex and found the guys card.  

 

Reds Tree Service- 865-687-8927

 

You will never find anyone to come get it for processing.  I got a hundred trees and no one is interested.

 

That seems odd.  We've sold pine stands to logging companies.  About 10 years or so ago, whenever the pine beetle infestation was rampant, my family had a logging company come and log the place.  Just the pines, though.  That was more than a hundred, though.  Several hundred.

 

Thanks for the number.  I'll have him come take a look.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Clod Stomper

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have some very nice, straight trees on my property. Not one or two but about a 1/2 dozen. Based on my experience working with a miller there is probably $10K worth of useable limber in those standing logs. I have had several people say they would not come put for such a small amount.

 

The small time sawmills are gone. You used to be able to find one every 10 miles but you would be hard pressed to find any that still do customer work within 25 miles.

[Spots]

We saw mill alot of our own out, and drop several large trees a year. Most sawmills won't look at anything less than 10 acres of timber now. My uncle recently sold 90 acres of timber rights and only got 3 bids. Most milling companies are looking for 100's of acres not a couple hundred trees. I would just get a timber cutter to price out felling it and you doing the clean up work.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

[Lumber_Jack]

We saw mill alot of our own out, and drop several large trees a year. Most sawmills won't look at anything less than 10 acres of timber now. My uncle recently sold 90 acres of timber rights and only got 3 bids. Most milling companies are looking for 100's of acres not a couple hundred trees. I would just get a timber cutter to price out felling it and you doing the clean up work.

Sent from the backwoods of Nowhere

This is correct. We generally don't even look at tracts less than 20acres. And can't personally recall us managing anything under 28acres.

[whitewolf001]

And here I was thinking I was gonna see a variant of the Kite Eating tree from Peanuts... ya know, except a little more voracious.

[Dane]

I could be wrong but I recall that your homeowners insurance may help with a tree that could pose a claim to the house. Might be worth a phone call.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[hipower]

Asked my insurance company to help with taking out trees a few years ago. I was told that it was my responsibility to have the trees taken care of unless it had fallen and damaged my house.

Seems kinda bassakwards to me, but that is what I was told.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Our tiny back woods is on a slope going up. The back yard is also elevated but flat, and there is a little valley with a retaining wall and some flat lower land before the slope goes up toward the back. Because of the lay of the land all the trees don't get enough light to please em and tend to grow real tall and skinny trying to get some light.

 

Early last fall we took down a couple of real tall black walnuts in the valley part, maybe 8" diameter at the base and also a couple of box elders about the same size.

 

Been wanting to rip some logs several years. Last fall I used a chainsaw hammer and chisel to square off some of the black walnut then ripped it on the shop bandsaw and table saw. It looks cured to me as best I can tell after 6 months sitting in the basement. Beautiful wood hard as a brick bat. Got one of those alaskan small log mills, max chainsaw bar 20", but things kept getting in the way and I haven't had time to mess with it yet. The grain on that box elder is beautiful but think I waited too long. Haven't tried slicing the logs, but suspect they are already rotten sitting out for more than 6 months.

 

So I'd been figuring on maybe paying my tree man to occasionally bring me a couple of 12" diameter logs any time he happens on some good small straight cherry, walnut, oak, maple, etc. I'm too old to mess with huge logs and if a log gets much bigger than 12" it wouldn't be at all practical for my tree man to manhandle the logs without power equipment onto a truck and then off the truck into my back valley. Most big trees they cut in small managable chunks so they don't break their backs toting it to a truck or trailer.

 

But this winter and spring was a surprise. After the monsoon rains a couple of white oaks came down up in the woods, not even strong wind. Pretty tall trees but maybe 18" diameter at the base. It is rocky soil on a hill and apparently the roots just couldn't hold em in the rain, flopped over downhill taking out some smaller trees with em, roots sticking up in the air pulled out of the dirt.

 

So am gonna try cutting those oaks and the smaller trees they took out, in pieces starting from the little end and ripping maybe 8 foot sections "where they lay" because it would be a chore to take the logs downhill to the valley. So all of a sudden it turned into a situation where I need to get off my butt and rip a bunch of wood before it rots.

 

So then last week we had a high-wind thunderstorm and it pushed over about a two foot diameter tall red oak behind my shop. We have a deck in the little valley with 15 steps going down from the back yard to the deck. That tree plowed right over the deck and also took out a couple of 8" hackberries that happened to be in the way. It did amazingly little damage to the deck. Completely obliterated a couple of four foot sections of deck rail but didn't break the deck itself. Won't be much more than a day or two for me to fix it good as new.

 

So now I've got two white oaks and a red oak and a hackberry and who knows what else that needs ripping sometime in the next months before they rot. There are two more oaks behind the shop, about the same size as that red oak that broke off at the ground and wiped out the deck. The tree man says they look healthy, but that big red oak looked healthy up till the day it took out the deck. So its gonna be painfully expensive but I'm gonna get those other two oaks took down as well, before they have a chance to surprise us.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks for the good advice, Dolomite.

 

I'm ignorant of wood and trees. Wife can identify most by sight but my perceptual system says "some kind of tree" when I see em. After the oak took out the hackberries, wife was out taking her dad to a dr appt, so I pulled off some sample leaves and it only took about 45 minutes web searching to ID it as hackberry. So when wife got home I proudly displayed the diagnosis and she said something like "well duh". Could have saved a lot of research just waiting for her to get home and tell me what the heck it is. :)

 

We were real impressed with the little box elders and black walnuts wife had hired to be cut down because they were too tall and skinny and in the way. Wife knew what they were but that wasn't the point of the exercise.

 

I never knew that walnut is dark brown on the inside with a ring of white wood on the outside. Probably never thought about it, but would have expected it to be the same color all the way thru.

 

The cross-cut pattern in the box elders is stunning. Then I looked up web pictures of linear rips and bowls made of box elder and those were fabulous as well. Wife was so taken with the pattern that we cut a bunch of 1 inch thick cross sections. She kept em in the house a few months to dry out, and the small diameter didn't crack very much. Then she sanded and over-kill polyurethaned the slabs and they are real pretty for wall or table decoration, or even an oversized cup coaster or pot holder. I'll try find time to post a picture. About the only kind of clear finish we use, on everything, is that minwax oil-based, quick dry, gloss floor poly. Figure if it is tough enough for walking on then it ought to work good on stuff like furniture, shelves, cabinets and wood kitchen counters.

 

Been reading about different ways of ripping wood, and drying it so that it won't crack and warp. That experimental piece of black walnut, I fashioned into about a 6" square beam, then cut out the sides and middle and ended up with four 2X2 pieces that didn't crack or bend after drying. They say the cracking comes from the interior shrinking at a different rate than the exterior, and that quarter sawing exposes the prettiest grain patterns. So on that little log of walnut, quartering it straight thru the middle was about the closest to quarter sawing I could get, if I understand the principle.

 

So thinking about the least labor-intensive way to approximate quarter sawing on smallish logs, here is what I've been thinking about, if you have advice or comments.

 

One of these days will find some space and get a fairly big bandsaw for re-sawing. Was thinking of getting slabs "pretty big" and drying them, then re-saw on the bandsaw and plane for dimensions of wood "I really wanted" when I know what size wood is needed for a project.

 

For the chainsaw ripping, was thinking that it would be least labor intensive to chainsaw as little as possible, just get the rough pieces small enough to handle on the table saw, which cuts a lot faster and straighter.

 

For instance on about a 12" log, was thinking something like (ballpark dimensions, maybe way off)-- Make a first flat-cut, then cut a 3" slab (which would fit on the table saw). Then cut a couple of 2" slabs (with the line between slabs going thru the middle of the log). Then cut another 3" slab off the bottom.

 

Screw the 2" interior slabs to a guide board and rip out the middle of the pith wood on a table saw, then flip the boards and rip off the rough bark on the other side of the pieces. Do the same with the 3" exterior slabs, cut em down the middle, but then rip 2" boards out of the inside of each half. Then cut out whatever is useful from the remainder of the 3" exterior slabs.

 

Theoretically that would eliminate having to turn a big heavy log to square it off into a post with the chainsaw, before cutting boards or trying to chainsaw quarter-saw.

 

It ought to yield four approx 2X4 and four approx 2X3 that are "close approximation to quarter-sawed", and then some other boards that might be nice enough, from the periphery left over.

 

That would only be 5 slabbing cuts with the chainsaw, everything else done on a table saw, which seems about as minimum sweaty chainsaw work possible?