Wilson? Nighthawk? what's the big deal?

[Guest jwp]

Gotcha... I must have just found the Custom Shop, which I guess is different.

In a way. We do custom work on customer supplied weapons as well as build our own. Had to start somewhere, just everyone else.

[Guest grimel]

Don’t get me wrong, it can be done. Can I do it? You bet and I would be happy to take your money. But the fact that you don’t have it, or don’t want to see it there doesn’t mean that is the way it should be. Is your high dollar 1911 that doesn’t have one flat or round on the top of the slide? If it’s round there should be a gap, if it’s flat the gap is under the bottom of the sight.

Dave,

You won't find a high end 1911 with that gap. Neither my Springfield basic loaded 2002 edition, Para LTD LDA, Para P-13 LTD, nor Para P-13 LTD LDX have that gap. My 1991 didn't have that gap after being worked on by a local 'smith. The Wilson Compact didn't have it either. Round top/flat top doesn't matter, high end 1911's don't have that gap.

[Guest grimel]

For our 1911s we use our own frames and slides which are produced for us, to our specs, by an American company, using American materials.

Must be a politician, no answer for an answer.

[Guest Coal Creek Armory]

Dave,

You won't find a high end 1911 with that gap. Neither my Springfield basic loaded 2002 edition, Para LTD LDA, Para P-13 LTD, nor Para P-13 LTD LDX have that gap. My 1991 didn't have that gap after being worked on by a local 'smith. The Wilson Compact didn't have it either. Round top/flat top doesn't matter, high end 1911's don't have that gap.

All this discussion over a non-issue? I pulled two Browns out of the safe earlier and both had large gaps under either the front or rear sight. They both hit where they point and so far they've never had any sort of issue feeding. Clearly, yes, some do leave other maker's shops with 'air cavities' under the sights. Shock. Horror. Shame.

We don't make the sights. We had an issue with an early batch not mating like we would like with the front sight cut and have taken the correct action to solve this in the future. In the meantime I invite you to come over here and A/B our pistol with any brand/make you like. Shoot them and you'll find that ours is very much worth the price we charge and will perform exactly as we have promised.

[Guest Coal Creek Armory]

Must be a politician, no answer for an answer.

Better question.

Who makes the frames and slides for any manufacturer?

Who is making them for Kimber? Springfield? Colt? Wilson? Baer? Nighthawk? RRA? Sig?

[Guest grimel]

We don't make the sights. We had an issue with an early batch not mating like we would like with the front sight cut and have taken the correct action to solve this in the future. In the meantime I invite you to come over here and A/B our pistol with any brand/make you like. Shoot them and you'll find that ours is very much worth the price we charge and will perform exactly as we have promised.

What makes you think I haven't and determined there are better values to be had?

[Im Neero]

I'm guessing if you don't own one you've already made that determination.

[Guest jwp]

What makes you think I haven't and determined there are better values to be had?

Come on. Be honest, you haven't looked at them. You're just trying to be cute and witty.

He extended an honest invitation to you and all you had was that?

Really, come on in. Don't be shy, tell whomever is working the counter that you're here to see me and I'll personally show you the pistols and then spot you a box or two of ammo so you can shoot them free of charge and see what you think. I'll even let you shoot one of my Brown, Yost or other personal, custom 1911s for a real, honest comparison.

I guarantee that you'll see the difference and agree that we're making one of the best custom 1911s on the market today.

[Guest Grout]

Better question.

Who makes the frames and slides for any manufacturer?

Who is making them for Kimber? Springfield? Colt? Wilson? Baer? Nighthawk? RRA? Sig?

Kimber now makes their own frames as does Wilson and obviously Colt.It is no secret that Springfield frames are made in Brazil.RRA is made by Armscor.You could find out about the others in 2 minutes on the 1911 forum.

[DaveTN]

Dave,

You won't find a high end 1911 with that gap. Neither my Springfield basic loaded 2002 edition, Para LTD LDA, Para P-13 LTD, nor Para P-13 LTD LDX have that gap. My 1991 didn't have that gap after being worked on by a local 'smith. The Wilson Compact didn't have it either. Round top/flat top doesn't matter, high end 1911's don't have that gap.

Well good grief man, I have a “High End†1911 and didn’t even know it.

I have a Smith & Wesson SW1911 Stainless Target that I’ll put up against anything in that list. I really don’t know about the Wilson, but since it’s a compact I’ll guess that it will out perform it.

My gun only cost $910 OTD. I thought the requirement was paying $1000 over the cost of a production gun and having someone else’s name on it to be considered “high end�

I had to get my S&W out and look, and it has a gap. Does that knock me back down to bottom feeder status?

We need to find an impartial bullseye shooter and put this issue to rest.

[willis68]

All this discussion over a non-issue? I pulled two Browns out of the safe earlier and both had large gaps under either the front or rear sight.

Would you mind posting pictures of those Browns? I have seen several and own a few myself and have never seen a gap under the sights,

[willis68]

Well good grief man, I have a “High End†1911 and didn’t even know it.

I have a Smith & Wesson SW1911 Stainless Target that I’ll put up against anything in that list. I really don’t know about the Wilson, but since it’s a compact I’ll guess that it will out perform it.

My gun only cost $910 OTD. I thought the requirement was paying $1000 over the cost of a production gun and having someone else’s name on it to be considered “high end�

I had to get my S&W out and look, and it has a gap. Does that knock me back down to bottom feeder status?

We need to find an impartial bullseye shooter and put this issue to rest.

I have already told you Kano is your man, when would you like to give it a go??

[Guest Mugster]

Well good grief man, I have a “High End†1911 and didn’t even know it.

I have a Smith & Wesson SW1911 Stainless Target that I’ll put up against anything in that list. I really don’t know about the Wilson, but since it’s a compact I’ll guess that it will out perform it.

My gun only cost $910 OTD. I thought the requirement was paying $1000 over the cost of a production gun and having someone else’s name on it to be considered “high end�

I had to get my S&W out and look, and it has a gap. Does that knock me back down to bottom feeder status?

We need to find an impartial bullseye shooter and put this issue to rest.

I'll be happy to shoot somebody else's handgun. My bullseye skills are subpar though.

I think your going to have to clamp them in a rest or a vice.

[DaveTN]

I have already told you Kano is your man, when would you like to give it a go??

Who’s Kano? I know you said he is a crack shot, but will he be impartial?

How about at Terry Waldens place in Manchester in a couple of weeks?

I will supply a Smith & Wesson for this test, now you need to get some of these big name guns.

[willis68]

Impartial, definately, the guy owns only semi custom 1911's but has decided that he wants a kimber, he has only been shooting for 2 years, and in all honesty he should be making a living out of his skills with a 1911, I would be extremely curious to see if he can shoot your Smith and Wesson as good, I am not saying he he wont, but alot of hand fitting as opposed to production line work has gone into his and my guns, I would give my left nut to be able to shoot like him, I am more concerned with CQB with my pistols, he likes shooting 30 yards or more, I am telling you the dude is amazing, and a heck of a nice guy to boot, I will have him jump in this thread if I can, here is one target that the guy did with Magtec ammo, I have NEVER seen him shoot with any match ammo only Winchester White Box, Magtec, it would problably make me want to sell all of my guns and find a new hobby if I did! http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9179

[Kano]

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Edited August 14, 2008 by Kano

[DaveTN]

Impartial, definately,

I use to own a S&W 1911 ... don't waste your gas or your ammo...

If you think or any one on this board thinks a $1000 1911 is reliable and will group the same as a high end 1911 that's your right.

Wow….. Sounds impartial to me.

How many 1911’s have you owned in your long history of shooting?

I’m just curious to see the actual results. But as I said finding a shooter will be a challenge.

[GhostDog]

Some of you 1911 guys sound a lot more rabid than any of us "crazy kool-aid drinking" Glock fans.

[Guest gcrookston]

I wish I had never started this thread....

But I have to tell you people, I've met and shot with Dave, and he knows from where he speaks.

I think I'll keep my blackhawk, yesterday I shoot a pretty decent group with it. It just doesn't like my reloads.

Edited August 14, 2008 by gcrookston

[GhostDog]

I had a Wilson Professional. It was "purdy" but was also picky about ammo. I got rid of it.

If I had to get a 1911, I would rather have one that was 50 years old and rattled. As long as it worked every time and shot to "minute of felon", I would be happy. A lot of these high dollar pistols are marketing and pandering to those who know better than the rest of us stupid field hands.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

[Guest jwp]

Kimber now makes their own frames as does Wilson and obviously Colt.It is no secret that Springfield frames are made in Brazil.RRA is made by Armscor.You could find out about the others in 2 minutes on the 1911 forum.

I think that if you dig a little deeper you'll find that neither Kimber nor Wilson make 100% of their frames.

[Guest Grout]

I think that if you dig a little deeper you'll find that neither Kimber nor Wilson make 100% of their frames.

I'm sure BUL makes the polymer frames.To Wilson's credit they never claimed to make their own frames until they actually started to do so.

[Guest jwp]

You may be correct. For a time neither Kimber nor Wilson made their own frames, S&W was making them for Kimber and I've heard all sorts of rumors about who was makig them for Wilson, but since they're both making in excess of 60,000 guns (combined) a year they most likely are milling their own frames from castings.

[Guest DVC]

Kimber has always made their own frames.Les Edelman who became the sole owner of Kimber was also an owner of Jerico Precision a defense contractor who made mechanical componets and hand tools with CNC machinery.Edelman wanted to make 1911s and used Jerico's machinery to do it.Jerico also made the first run of frames for S&W not the other way around.Jerico also made frames for Wilson for a while.

[molonlabetn]

Guns which are built from a bin of interchangeable parts have their advantages, but they simply won't have the precision of properly fitted, matched parts. Both have their proper applications... since it wouldn't make much sense to arm every LEO or soldier with a Wilson/Ed Brown/etc unless they could shoot them well enough in their application to take full advantage of them, when cheaper pistols will send lead downrange just as reliably (perhaps in some conditions, moreso), and you'll never notice the extra couple inches in group-size at 25yd, since they are firing under stress, anyways.