Wilson? Nighthawk? what's the big deal?

[Kano]

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Edited August 14, 2008 by Kano

[jaysouth]

Don't knock them just because you can't afford one.

[TripleDigitRide]

I've never owned one, but I've shot many of the ultra-expensive 1911's. They are very nice to look at, and generally very nice to shoot--when they're not being a pain in the butt.

The main pro and con to these type of 1911's, is the fact that they're built with ultra-tight tolerances. Having such tight tolerances makes for an amazingly smooth and accurate gun, but this can (and often has in my experiences) create real feeding (and other) issues. With the tolerances being as tight as they often are, this leaves almost no room for the slightest imperfections when it comes to the ammo itself. Everything has to be perfect.

If I had the extra money to blow, I can't say I'd never own one, but I can promise you one thing, I'd never let my life depend on it.

This is just my opinion based on my experiences, and I'm sure there are many who would disagree. Even the owners of the gun's I've shot think I'm crazy. They swear by them.

[Kano]

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Edited August 14, 2008 by Kano

[willis68]

Kano is right, like myself he owns some fine 1911's they all run as expected excellent, people you have to understand that with a 1911 you do get what you pay for in spades, whomever these guys are that own Wilson's that do not run as good as a Glock???? if I were them Wilson would have my gun back until they get it right. I never bought a semi custom 1911 until I got to shoot one first, anyone out there who owns a Kimber, and think that it is a great gun, they may be, but shoot it and then shoot an Ed Brown, this is what got me hooked on good 1911's, you will see just what all the fuss is about,

[willis68]

Yes, I agree with what you said. And it'll run fine on the range as long as you clean the pistol every 50-100 shots.

But you can achieve either the same level of accuracy or come pretty close and also have pretty good reliability through 400-500 shots with dirty ammo and "rougher than range" conditions.

Believe me, I have a wad of money right now in my hip pocket and could buy whatever pistol I want to carry. If i thought for a minute that a wilson would give me any edge at all in a firefight or give me better service at the range i'd go get one. I've shot em. They don't. And they could make a better mag too, imo.

BTW, not that it matters much to me, but the sigarms 1911 is 100% stainless, and i think its all machined. Sig claims they are "hand fitted", but i take that with a grain of salt.

I shoot several hundred rounds through my 1911's I do not have to clean them at the range, whatever pistols that you claim that you shot are simply not up to par if what you describe is true,

[Guest thorn]

For me range time is the worst conditions I'll shoot my pistol in - crappy ammo and more rounds than you'll ever see in a firefight.

You can't go to the range and buy "range ammo" to shoot through a match grade pistol and expect match performance. If you do you will find yourself cleaning after 150 rounds or so and you'll lack in overall performance. You can do this with a Glock but you will still lack in performance no matter what you do. Best answer is to buy both

"Are these 1911's that good that they cost nearly twice what a decent one sells for?" If you like 1911's Yes they are or go custom with a decent one.

Edited August 6, 2008 by thorn

[deerslayer]

I removed what I posted because it's totaly worthless to discuss anything with those who start with I don't own one BUT I have BLA BLA BLA.

It's not worthless at all--I've never found a reason that would make me WANT to own one (if you are referring to $2500 1911s). I have owned a Colt and a Kimber, however. I know they are sweet shooters (Wilsons, etc.), but many seem like too much trouble. If I thought they were worth it, I'd probably have one. I wouldn't put up with a supermodel wife, either. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Edited August 6, 2008 by deerslayer

[DavidD]

A friend of mine once said " A 1911 is like a true sports car, alot of people want one, not every one should own one"

A very wise friend indeed!

[Guest Mugster]

I shoot several hundred rounds through my 1911's I do not have to clean them at the range, whatever pistols that you claim that you shot are simply not up to par if what you describe is true,

Well, thats my opinion, but i'm glad you've had better luck.

Even this sig, that I actually like pretty well, was a jammer for the first 500-600 shots. I got ahold of a couple cases of .45 wolf ammo and blew 1500 of those puppies through it. It's loosened up pretty good now and it runs well enough that i consider it pretty reliable. It could be looser.

I believe every higher end 1911 i've shot has jammed while i was firing it. Once again though, my experience with it is limited. Some had quite a few rounds down the pipe previously...and one only had a few. I was looking at possibly buying one in the early 90's.

Unless the pistol is loose enough, generally they can't take 40-50 rounds of sustained rapid fire. Just heats em up too much I guess and they fail to go fully into battery is my experience with it. Or some piece of microscopic crud gets in there from picking up mags off the ground.

Edited August 6, 2008 by Mugster

[Guest Mugster]

It's not worthless at all--I've never found a reason that would make me WANT to own one (if you are referring to $2500 1911s). I have owned a Colt and a Kimber, however. I know they are sweet shooters (Wilsons, etc.), but many seem like too much trouble. If I thought they were worth it, I'd probably have one. I wouldn't put up with a supermodel wife, either. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Speak for yourself on that whole supermodel wife thing.

[deerslayer]

[DaveTN]

I don’t think so. So far most of the people I have seen buy them are people that thought spending $2-3K would help them place rounds in the bull’s eye. But then when they get their feeling hurt by guys at the range shooting sub $1K Kimber’s, S&W’s and Springfield’s; they sell them.

What would be a really good test would be to have someone that is an outstanding shot with a 1911, impartial (if there is such a person), and let them shoot some production guns and some of these race guns back to back.

BTW.... you have a PM.

Edited August 6, 2008 by DaveTN

[willis68]

I don’t think so. So far most of the people I have seen buy them are people that thought spending $2-3K would help them place rounds in the bull’s eye. But then when they get their feeling hurt by guys at the range shooting sub $1K Kimber’s, S&W’s and Springfield’s; they sell them.

What would be a really good test would be to have someone that is an outstanding shot with a 1911, impartial (if there is such a person), and let them shoot some production guns and some of these race guns back to back.

BTW.... you have a PM.

Dave you bring up a good point no gun will make you a better shooter, but the nicer ones sure make it better, Kano a member here is the BEST shot I have ever seen in my life, I can ask him to post some targets to show you what I mean here is one he did with a Les Baer http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9179 , he would make John Moses Browning proud by what he can do with a 1911, now he only has as I do high end 1911's perhaps someday we can get together and we will let you shoot our guns, and give Kano a try with your Smith and Wesson to see if it is up to par with the High end ones, this would be quite intresting to say the least

Edited August 7, 2008 by willis68

[Guest grimel]

Well, thats my opinion, but i'm glad you've had better luck.

Even this sig, that I actually like pretty well, was a jammer for the first 500-600 shots. I got ahold of a couple cases of .45 wolf ammo and blew 1500 of those puppies through it. It's loosened up pretty good now and it runs well enough that i consider it pretty reliable. It could be looser.

I believe every higher end 1911 i've shot has jammed while i was firing it. Once again though, my experience with it is limited. Some had quite a few rounds down the pipe previously...and one only had a few. I was looking at possibly buying one in the early 90's.

Unless the pistol is loose enough, generally they can't take 40-50 rounds of sustained rapid fire. Just heats em up too much I guess and they fail to go fully into battery is my experience with it. Or some piece of microscopic crud gets in there from picking up mags off the ground.

Who ever has a premium 1911 that won't take 40-50 rounds of rapid fire without jamming needs to send the POS back and have them fix it. My Wilson compact would run through a recoil spring without cleaning if I used factory ammo. My 1991 customized by a local 'smith would run 1000+ LRN reloads. His race guns would make it through an IPSC match (a bit over 100rds) without cleaning.

[Guest grimel]

I don’t think so. So far most of the people I have seen buy them are people that thought spending $2-3K would help them place rounds in the bull’s eye. But then when they get their feeling hurt by guys at the range shooting sub $1K Kimber’s, S&W’s and Springfield’s; they sell them.

What would be a really good test would be to have someone that is an outstanding shot with a 1911, impartial (if there is such a person), and let them shoot some production guns and some of these race guns back to back.

BTW.... you have a PM.

Umm, $2k doesn't make it a race gun. Most of the premium 1911's aren't race guns. BTW, a real race gun will make you look like a better shot.

My Rock Island Armory 5" won't begin to shoot as well as my last 4.25" Para. Neither of them would shoot with my 4" Wilson. And that wouldn't shoot with the 1991 after Bob worked it over (no match chamber required, no FLGR, no tools needed). The Para LDA LTD would shoot with the 4" Wilson.

The jury hasn't been sent out for judgement on the Springfield.

[DaveTN]

Umm, $2k doesn't make it a race gun. Most of the premium 1911's aren't race guns. BTW, a real race gun will make you look like a better shot.

My Rock Island Armory 5" won't begin to shoot as well as my last 4.25" Para. Neither of them would shoot with my 4" Wilson. And that wouldn't shoot with the 1991 after Bob worked it over (no match chamber required, no FLGR, no tools needed). The Para LDA LTD would shoot with the 4" Wilson.

The jury hasn't been sent out for judgement on the Springfield.

In high end 1911’s I’m talking about accuracy and function. “Shoot as well†and “wouldn’t shoot with†are terms that need definition. The test to me would be 50 yard bullseye shooting. Are you going to shoot 50 yards with a 4†1911?

[TGO David]

My Wilson is a tack driver and eats whatever I feed it without complaint. There is definitely a perceptible difference in build quality between a Wilson, Nighthawk, Les Baer, etc. and Kimber, Smith & Wesson, Rock Island, etc. It just boils down to the individual's decision of whether those differences are worth the extra expense to them.

To some it is. To some it isn't. Neither is wrong.

[TGO David]

Oh and JWP... how about posting some gun porn of a few CCA 1911's.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Oh and JWP... how about posting some gun porn of a few CCA 1911's.

+1

[Guest Coal Creek Armory]

Oh and JWP... how about posting some gun porn of a few CCA 1911's.

Let us take some pictures. Need to get the lightbox set up first.

[Magiccarpetrides]

JWP you got PM

[Guest Coal Creek Armory]

I've been digging around looking for some competed guns to photograph, but we are selling every one we can make, but I have some of our customers coming in so I can get some better pictures of their guns to display.

In the meantime here is a shot of a Commander we're in the process of building (for a Nationally known competition shooter who shall remain anonymous)

[Guest gcrookston]

Here's a picture of the first custom 1911 I ever owned. It was built by Jim Clark in 1968 using a brand-new 1968 1911A1. I bought it from his Daugher Kay Clark's and Jerry Miculek's store when I lived in Bossier. Great shooting gun, but those tiger teeth leave your hand pretty raw at the end of the day. I sold it a couple of years ago.

Edited August 8, 2008 by gcrookston

[Guest Mugster]

The year end review of the shotgun news has a really good article on what seems to work in a .45. Pretty good read.