Wilson? Nighthawk? what's the big deal?

[Guest gcrookston]

Are these 1911's that good that they cost nearly twice what a decent one sells for?

Edited August 5, 2008 by gcrookston

[nightrunner]

from what i hear, the majority of people that havent shot one dont see how they could be so much better, but every one ive heard that has shot one says yu just have to shoot one to see what the fuss is all about.

[Guest Boomhower]

from what i hear, the majority of people that havent shot one dont see how they could be so much better, but every one ive heard that has shot one says yu just have to shoot one to see what the fuss is all about.

They wouldn't happen to be the same silly people that coincidently paid all that money for them, would they?

[Guest price g]

I thought my Kimber was pretty nice untill someone put a Nighthawk in my hand.

[deerslayer]

From what I've seen (mainly IDPA competition), it seems that the best value in 1911s is an STI, especially after they've been sent to Dawson Precision. Several guys I shoot with have Wilsons, and we're always making fun of them because we can get five of our guns for what one of theirs costs, and ours actually run. Same with Kimbers, except we can only get two guns for what their guns cost. I like 1911s, and if I wanted a cheap one, I'd look at Springfields. If I had some extra cash, I'd get an STI and send it to Dawson.

[Guest Grout]

You can buy an STI from Dawson or Brazos Custom and they will go over them and smooth and buff for you. Then have it shipped to a local dealer.I don't own a Wilson but I have shot one. They are nice. Worth the extra money?,to me no but I wear a Timex Ironman and not a Rolex.Wilson does have great customer service,for what they cost they better.

[jredbryant]

I have a Les Baer, and a S&W Performance Center 1911. Both those guns shoot great fron the bench. I have not gotten into IDPA but I know some guys that have shot the Les Baer. The Les Baer ran well for them during the match but most people at the match made fun of their high priecd guns that don't work!

[Guest Steelharp]

I had a Wilson (I bought used) and the happiest day of my life was when I sold it. Most finicky POS I've ever had in my hand. Never had a problem with the off the shelf Colts.

[big mo]

I'm a big fan of Kimbers from their custom shop. But when Joe from Hero put the Wilson in my hands, I almost forgot about my Kimbers. If you get a chance to fire one a few times then you will understand what all the hype is about.

[willis68]

I've been very fortunate in my life. I've been able to acquire a number of very fine guns. I really like them. My Ed Browns, Les Baer and Nighthawk are beautifully put together. I admire their fit and finish. They are accurate and reliable. I think that the guns at that level are just "nicer." I appreciate the quality I see in them.

IMHO high end 1911s reflect a greater level of craftsmanship and attention, but whether the incremental increase in quality reflects a similar level of performance, or can fully justify the higher price, will always be a matter of debate. They cost what they cost. Whether that something extra in these pistols is worth the additional cost is something you have to decide for yourself. I'm not sure that I can necessarily argue objectively or scientifically that it is. But it is worth it to me.

Does one need such a gun for recreation or to protect himself and his family? The answer is, no. There are many guns made which, for less money, will give excellent service and would fully be up to pretty much all tasks short of very serious competition, such as Bullseye or PPC, at the top levels.

But if one appreciates high end pistols (or rifles or shotguns) and is lucky enough to have the means to satisfy his business and familiy responsibilities and also indulge his tastes, there's no reason he should not. One may not need a top end 1911 (or a Ferrari car or Breitling watch or a Perazzi shotgun), but nonetheless they are wonderful machines, can perform their functions well and are satisfying to use.

Edited August 21, 2008 by willis68

[willis68]

From what I've seen (mainly IDPA competition), it seems that the best value in 1911s is an STI, especially after they've been sent to Dawson Precision. Several guys I shoot with have Wilsons, and we're always making fun of them because we can get five of our guns for what one of theirs costs, and ours actually run. Same with Kimbers, except we can only get two guns for what their guns cost. I like 1911s, and if I wanted a cheap one, I'd look at Springfields. If I had some extra cash, I'd get an STI and send it to Dawson.

Just out of curiosity what models of Wilson's are these that your Glock runs better than? I do not own a Wilson by the way

[Guest jwp]

You can't compare Kimber with Wilson, Brown, Baer or other true 'custom' 1911 builders.

In regards to the Glock vs. custom 1911, well, that's just silly. A Glock is like a Monte Carlo and the custom 1911 is like an F1 car.

[Guest Mugster]

Are these 1911's that good that they cost nearly twice what a decent one sells for?

In my opinion, they are overpriced and not very good pistols in many cases, unless you want something for a display case. The accuracy is usually pretty good.

My definition of a good pistol is one that will run a couple 100 rounds with no malfunctions and work after being submerged in a creek. I wouldn't carry any of the premium brands until I had at least several K rounds through them. I look at it like the colt's of the late 80's. Got a name but the parts fall off or its a jam-o-matic. I'd advise not buying a kimber at all unless it was made before say 1999.

I think a RIA or a taurus 1911 give good value for the money. If you want to spend a few bucks, I've had good luck with a sig revo 1911. The sig is pretty tight on the lockup, but it does wear in a bit. It does have some slop out of battery but probably not enough off the shelf. Greased up, mine now runs flawlessly. I also recommend using mecgar magazines with the chromed followers. The more I shoot them, the more i think the wilson mags aren't that good, imo, and their followers suck. I'd never carry them, but they make an ok range mag.

[Guest jwp]

In my opinion, they are overpriced and not very good pistols in many cases, unless you want something for a display case. The accuracy is usually pretty good.

My definition of a good pistol is one that will run a couple 100 rounds with no malfunctions and work after being submerged in a creek. I wouldn't carry any of the premium brands until I had at least several K rounds through them. I look at it like the colt's of the late 80's. Got a name but the parts fall off or its a jam-o-matic. I'd advise not buying a kimber at all unless it was made before say 1999.

I think a RIA or a taurus 1911 give good value for the money. If you want to spend a few bucks, I've had good luck with a sig revo 1911. The sig is pretty tight on the lockup, but it does wear in a bit. It does have some slop out of battery but probably not enough off the shelf. Greased up, mine now runs flawlessly. I also recommend using mecgar magazines with the chromed followers. The more I shoot them, the more i think the wilson mags aren't that good, imo, and their followers suck. I'd never carry them, but they make an ok range mag.

The 1911s you mention all have one thing in common, they're production line guns that have a large amount of MIM parts.

A true custom 1911 will achieve groups tighter than the shooter can allow. Show me a Glock that will get 2.5" at 50 yards. Most 'custom*' 1911s can and will do that all day long.

*Wilson, Baer, RRA, Brown, CCA

[deerslayer]

Just out of curiosity what models of Wilson's are these that your Glock runs better than? I do not own a Wilson by the way

No idea, but they cost between $2200 and $2700.

[deerslayer]

In regards to the Glock vs. custom 1911, well, that's just silly. A Glock is like a Monte Carlo and the custom 1911 is like an F1 car.

Maybe so, but I bet the typical Glock shooter's blood pressure is lower. F1 cars often require F1 mechanics.

[Guest Mugster]

The 1911s you mention all have one thing in common, they're production line guns that have a large amount of MIM parts.

A true custom 1911 will achieve groups tighter than the shooter can allow. Show me a Glock that will get 2.5" at 50 yards. Most 'custom*' 1911s can and will do that all day long.

*Wilson, Baer, RRA, Brown, CCA

Yes, I agree with what you said. And it'll run fine on the range as long as you clean the pistol every 50-100 shots.

But you can achieve either the same level of accuracy or come pretty close and also have pretty good reliability through 400-500 shots with dirty ammo and "rougher than range" conditions.

Believe me, I have a wad of money right now in my hip pocket and could buy whatever pistol I want to carry. If i thought for a minute that a wilson would give me any edge at all in a firefight or give me better service at the range i'd go get one. I've shot em. They don't. And they could make a better mag too, imo.

BTW, not that it matters much to me, but the sigarms 1911 is 100% stainless, and i think its all machined. Sig claims they are "hand fitted", but i take that with a grain of salt.

Edited August 5, 2008 by Mugster

[Guest jwp]

Yes, I agree with what you said. And it'll run fine on the range as long as you clean the pistol every 50-100 shots.

But you can achieve either the same level of accuracy or come pretty close and also have pretty good reliability through 400-500 shots with dirty ammo and "rougher than range" conditions.

Believe me, I have a wad of money right now in my hip pocket and could buy whatever pistol I want to carry. If i thought for a minute that a wilson would give me any edge at all in a firefight or give me better service at the range i'd go get one. I've shot em. They don't. And they could make a better mag too, imo.

BTW, not that it matters much to me, but the sigarms 1911 is 100% stainless, and i think its all machined. Sig claims they are "hand fitted", but i take that with a grain of salt.

I agree on several points. Wilson could not only make a better magazine, they could also make a better pistol.

But they're at the bottom end of the 'custom' market. Sig is too for that matter. While they do use 100% all tool steel internals, they are still a production gun.

Come down here sometime and try out one of our custom 1911s and I think you'll find what I'm talking about when I say that with a truly hand built custom 1911 you can have it all, with no regrets or fear. And still not break the bank by spending $2500 on so-called 'custom' guns.

[Guest Mugster]

I agree on several points. Wilson could not only make a better magazine, they could also make a better pistol.

But they're at the bottom end of the 'custom' market. Sig is too for that matter. While they do use 100% all tool steel internals, they are still a production gun.

Come down here sometime and try out one of our custom 1911s and I think you'll find what I'm talking about when I say that with a truly hand built custom 1911 you can have it all, with no regrets or fear. And still not break the bank by spending $2500 on so-called 'custom' guns.

Ah man, thats a good offer. I'd be there if i still lived in Oak ridge.

It's true, kimber and wilson are the only "higher end" stuff i've shot much. I guess i shouldn't categorize, but this is a "web forum".

[Guest jwp]

Maybe I'll catch up with you at one of the Mid-TN shoots and let you shoot my CCA 1911. I think you'll dig it, and marvel at how I won't have to clean it at all.

[Guest grimel]

Yes, I agree with what you said. And it'll run fine on the range as long as you clean the pistol every 50-100 shots.

Just what Wilson's have you shot? Even my W231 LRN reloads would run 200+ through a compact.

If you want a dependable 1911 without breaking the bank, buy a Colt with the dimpled feed ramp. If you don't like the Series 80 drop safety, buy a stainless Mil-spec Springfield and send it to Bob at Predator Custom in Knoxville. That'll be about the best $600 you'll spend.

[nightrunner]

They wouldn't happen to be the same silly people that coincidently paid all that money for them, would they?

not always, sometimes its people who have gotten to borrow a high-end semi-custom 1911 to shoot at the range right after they shot their mid-grade semi-custom or basic production gun. they say its a world of difference side by side.

[nightrunner]

And it'll run fine on the range as long as you clean the pistol every 50-100 shots.

is that an exaggerration or does it actually hold true? because im not going to be cleaning my gun while im at the range, thats what you do when you get home. 2-300 rounds between cleaning doesnt sound like too much to ask, I dont think.

I dont have a 1911 yet and I am very interested in this thread, I would eventually like to get a higher end semi-custom (springfield custom shop, S&W performance center, wilson, dan wesson, etc.) but i dont want to have something i cant go to the range and actually enjoy it for more than 100 rounds. doesnt need to pass a torture test or anything, just function as it should under "normal" operating conditions

[Punisher84]

A friend of mine once said " A 1911 is like a true sports car, alot of people want one, not every one should own one"

If you're happier with a Glock by all means a Glock is a fine firearm, but a Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, or Ed Brown is a religious experience.

[deerslayer]

A friend of mine once said " A 1911 is like a true sports car, alot of people want one, not every one should own one"

If you're happier with a Glock by all means a Glock is a fine firearm, but a Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, or Ed Brown is a religious experience.

I've seen a couple Wilson "religious experiences" result in a tirade of profanity.