Let's talk shotguns... I know practically nothing :/

[whitewolf001]

:popcorn:

[RichardR]

I've fired various firearms indoors, most of time we wore hearing protection while inside the shoot houses, but occasionally we had to do them without hearing protection, the worst incident was a .357 mag discharged while inside of a vehicle, no hearing protection, the pressure wave in that tiny enclosed area was almost incapacitiating/disorientating for a few seconds, which is probably why that was included in that training course.

Usually however your ears would just ring for a couple of days afterward, same as if you had just attended a rock concert or something, I probably have some hearing loss but I'm not completely deaf, at least not yet.

[RichardR]

What does this have to do with the OP?

Thread drift is inevitible, especially after the OP had fufilled his mission & we're just now "sitting around, shooting the shit" so to speak.

Some weapons are definately more punishing in indoor settings without hearing protection, for instance firing an SBR or pistol AR chambered in 5.56 in an enclosed space is sort of like having a flash-bang go off right next to you.

Even outdoors I always double up on my hearing protection when shooting them, even with my electronic muffs & foam/gel plugs my ears will still ring for several hours afterwards.

I'd NEVER fire one of those indoors, even with doubled up hearing protection.

[JAB]

One pump shotgun that I can cycle in a about 1 second with four or maybe 7 rounds is fine for one intruder...its capabilities start to get taxed if you've got a couple of intruders...any more intruders than that and it really starts to become inadequate.

 

So, just what kind of ninja death squads have you pissed off that, after you blow a couple of them away with a shotgun, the rest will keep coming after you?

 

If you are more comfortable with a higher capacity HD weapon then that is a personal decision and that is your right.  For myself, however, I just have trouble believing that - even if the intruder in question isn't killed - getting shot with a round or two of 00 buckshot wouldn't effectively deter an intruder and dissuade any fellows who may be with him from continuing their attempts to enter.

[RichardR]

So, just what kind of ninja death squads have you pissed off that, after you blow a couple of them away with a shotgun, the rest will keep coming after you?

If you are more comfortable with a higher capacity HD weapon then that is a personal decision and that is your right. For myself, however, I just have trouble believing that - even if the intruder in question isn't killed - getting shot with a round or two of 00 buckshot wouldn't effectively deter an intruder and dissuade any fellows who may be with him from continuing their attempts to enter.

Agreed, most home invasion scenarios will be decided within a matter of seconds, and although I personally use a shotgun as my "go to" bump in the night stick I sure wouldn't want someone telling me (or passing legislation mandating) that I couldn't use a higher-capacity weapon if I felt the need to do so.

Especially if there was some sort of wide-spread unrest, where a homeowner might have to protect themselves &/or their families by fending off hordes of desperate or crazed people (or OH NOES! even hordes of undead or infected zombies!).

Meh, IMHO everyone should use whatever they are most comfortable with using, but everyone should also be mindful of the potential of possibly injuring/killing neighbors (regardless of the weapon used) &/or what potential jurors might think if for some reason the shoot is ever prosecuted (again, regardless of what weapon is used), granted protecting your family should come first, but limiting any potential legal trouble in the aftermath should also be taken into serious consideration.

With a shotgun, I believe that I have not only the best tool for a limited CQB encounter, but also the best choice to limit over-penetration/neighbor & legal liability /potential prosecution/juror concerns.

If need be I'll use my shotgun & sidearm to fight my way to my safe & break out something drum-fed.

[TMF]

So, just what kind of ninja death squads have you pissed off that, after you blow a couple of them away with a shotgun, the rest will keep coming after you?

.

Sounds far fetched, but used to happen to Steven Segal all the time.

[RobertNashville]

So, just what kind of ninja death squads have you pissed off that, after you blow a couple of them away with a shotgun, the rest will keep coming after you?

 

If you are more comfortable with a higher capacity HD weapon then that is a personal decision and that is your right.  For myself, however, I just have trouble believing that - even if the intruder in question isn't killed - getting shot with a round or two of 00 buckshot wouldn't effectively deter an intruder and dissuade any fellows who may be with him from continuing their attempts to enter.

Maybe in your neighborhood all home invasions/night time home break-ins are always just one or maybe two thugs or people that will run if one of their buddies gets blown away?  ;)  It would be great if the bad guys always ran just because they hear a shotgun cycling but I think there are plenty of real-life examples where that didn't happen.

 

Do you have something against having lot's of capacity?

 

Believe or don't believe what you want; all I can say is that if if someone breaks into my home I want as much firepower on my side as possible.  If bad guys break into my home I likely won't know how many of them there may be, especially at first and I certainly won't know if they are smart enough to wear armor, what they'll do if they face armed resistance, what pharmaceuticals they might be on or a 100 other variables. If one shot sends all of them fleeing that's fine but I'm not going to bet my life on the hope that they'll be that accommodating.

Edited June 7, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest glocklocker19]

This thread has been entertaining to watch. For those that answered my original questions, thank you. I never thought I would start a 5 page debate, but I am enjoying it :) 

:popcorn:

[Guest LittleBear571]

I recently acquired a Mossberg 500 home defense version. I love the gun. My question is, it has a heat shield, but I'd like to put the magpul moe fore end on it. Would it fit with the heat shield?

[Garufa]

I recently acquired a Mossberg 500 home defense version. I love the gun. My question is, it has a heat shield, but I'd like to put the magpul moe fore end on it. Would it fit with the heat shield?

 

Irrelevant.  Only an AR-15 or M-16 is an acceptable home defense weapon.  :lol:

 

Maybe if you started a new thread a reasonable, BS-free answer might be found.

 

 

 

Seriously, coming this fall....http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG491/shotgun

Edited June 7, 2013 by Garufa

[Guest whamonkey]

I'm mentioning this again because it bears repeating. Has anyone fired an AR without hearing protection at the range, let alone inside a house? Permanent hearing loss would be my guess.

What does this have to do with the OP?

What does your question have to do with my question?

[Guest whamonkey]

I mentioned it because a .223 is an EXREMELY high pressure round versus a shotgun shell which isn't. Under some circumstances you may be better off without the AR and go with the 12 gauge. I will also add without hesitation both will be extremely effective in the right hands. Debating which one is more capable is fun for sharing ideas but little else.

Personally, I prefer a little more oomph in my survival rifle, that's why I sold my AR and own a Springfield M1A Squad Scout.


See? Debates bring out different opinions. Internet FTW!

[Guest whamonkey]

Last thought, as to the original post.

I own a Remington 870 Express synthetic 18....they can be had for right around $300. It's a fine example of an HD shotgun, extended magazine and can take either 2-3/4 or 3" shells. I prefer the slide on the Remington but the Mossberg has a better safety location. Either one gets a solid yes in my opinion, either is a top notch choice.

[RobertNashville]

I mentioned it because a .223 is an EXREMELY high pressure round versus a shotgun shell which isn't. Under some circumstances you may be better off without the AR and go with the 12 gauge. I will also add without hesitation both will be extremely effective in the right hands. Debating which one is more capable is fun for sharing ideas but little else.

Personally, I prefer a little more oomph in my survival rifle, that's why I sold my AR and own a Springfield M1A Squad Scout.


See? Debates bring out different opinions. Internet FTW!

Survival rifle?  No one told me we were talking about survival rifles; that places a whole different light on the entire thread then because everyone knows that the AR/5.56 platform is completely inadequate for survival. ;)

 

For survival rifles you actually need two; a Ruger 10/22 (that's assuming you can find 22 ammo) and a Barrett 82A1; what the 22 can't handle the 50BMG will and anything too small for the 50 the 22 should do nicely

Edited June 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest LittleBear571]

Irrelevant. Only an AR-15 or M-16 is an acceptable home defense weapon. :lol:

Maybe if you started a new thread a reasonable, BS-free answer might be found.



Seriously, coming this fall....http://store.magpul.com/product/MAG491/shotgun

I saw pictures of them mounted on different shotguns I didn't realize it wasn't available yet. My bad.

[tartanphantom]

So, just what kind of ninja death squads have you pissed off that, after you blow a couple of them away with a shotgun, the rest will keep coming after you?

 

Low-information voters--- after their EBT cards are cut off when Bernanke bankrupts the country.

Ever heard of a place called Greece? :whistle:

Edited June 8, 2013 by tartanphantom

[RichardR]

I mentioned it because a .223 is an EXREMELY high pressure round versus a shotgun shell which isn't. Under some circumstances you may be better off without the AR and go with the 12 gauge. I will also add without hesitation both will be extremely effective in the right hands. Debating which one is more capable is fun for sharing ideas but little else.

Personally, I prefer a little more oomph in my survival rifle, that's why I sold my AR and own a Springfield M1A Squad Scout.


See? Debates bring out different opinions. Internet FTW!

OH NOES! 10 reasons why shotguns are the ultimate survival tool ...

[Smith]

Bottom line: defense - shotgun, offense - rifle.
Back on topic, the basic difference between a Mossberg and Remington 870 is the slide release is in front of the trigger guard on the 870's and their clones. The Mossberg variants have the slide release behind the trigger guard. The 870's also have a cross bolt safety in the trigger guard. The Mossberg's, with the exception of the 88, have a top tang safety.
I prefer the Mossberg's because you don't have to change your grip to access the safety or slide release and the safety is very easy to see whether it is on or off while shouldered. However, if you add a pistol grip stock (ala Knoxx stock) the control ergonomics are negated. Thus I have a H&R Pardner Pump with the Knoxx (recoil reducing stock).
The Knox stock is great for reducing recoil and making it ready for both me and my wife to use.

[RobertNashville]

Really???

I always thought that a weapon is "defensive" or "offensive" based on how it is used - not the platform, caliber, barrel length, or anything else.

 

If you use it to defend yourself then it's a defensive weapon, whether it's a 22 pistol or a Howitzer!  :)

Edited June 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Smith]

Really? Another semantics argument. Yes, a shotgun used properly is a better "defensive" home weapon than an AR. Both can be used for either.
Reasons: collateral damage, ease of use, hit probability, safety, etc.

In a defensive situation you are already behind the ball because you are reacting. You have lost the edge in nearly every way . A shotgun helps mitigate those factors by reducing target acquisition, less collateral damage possibility, and maximising target hit probability with each trigger pull.

Absolutely an AR is better if all those factors are in your favor, thus the reason SWAT teams, military, etc. use them, but that's not what we are talking about.

[RichardR]

Agreed.

Plus I have found that the sound of a pump action being cycled, makes everyone in a 3 mile radius literally poop in their pants with fear, they are just that awesome.

Seriously though, 00 buck is just nasty stuff, keep in mind that during WW1 the Germans tried to get it outlawed on the battlefield.

It's use in the close quarter combat / trench warfare was so effective & the wounds it caused were so terrible that these same folks who had no qualms about Allied mustard gas or howitzers or .30-06 rounds or tanks or machine guns or grenades or mines or ...etc, etc being used on them .. were absolutely terrified of being ripped open by 00 buckshot.

Heh, now I don't ever want to be "shot" by anything, even a spitball, but the absolute LAST thing that I'd ever want to be shot with is 00 buck, especially up close, now I'm not a WW1 vet, but I have used it quite effectively over the years to take hogs & whitetails, butchering them afterwards told me all I needed to know about the sort of trauma that it inflicts on flesh & bone *shudder*.

Really? Another semantics argument. Yes, a shotgun used properly is a better "defensive" home weapon than an AR. Both can be used for either.
Reasons: collateral damage, ease of use, hit probability, safety, etc.

In a defensive situation you are already behind the ball because you are reacting. You have lost the edge in nearly every way . A shotgun helps mitigate those factors by reducing target acquisition, less collateral damage possibility, and maximising target hit probability with each trigger pull.

Absolutely an AR is better if all those factors are in your favor, thus the reason SWAT teams, military, etc. use them, but that's not what we are talking about.

Edited June 8, 2013 by RichardR

[RobertNashville]

Really? Another semantics argument. Yes, a shotgun used properly is a better "defensive" home weapon than an AR. Both can be used for either.
Reasons: collateral damage, ease of use, hit probability, safety, etc.

In a defensive situation you are already behind the ball because you are reacting. You have lost the edge in nearly every way . A shotgun helps mitigate those factors by reducing target acquisition, less collateral damage possibility, and maximising target hit probability with each trigger pull.

Absolutely an AR is better if all those factors are in your favor, thus the reason SWAT teams, military, etc. use them, but that's not what we are talking about.

:chill:  Okay..I guess you can't or at least didn't in this case, differentiate between a joke and a serious argument.

Edited June 8, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RichardR]

:chill: Okay..I guess you can't or at least didn't in this case, differentiate between a joke and a serious argument.

Pppffffttttt!

Robert this is serious business, this is the internets! We don't take kindly to "your kind" (AR-lovers) around "these parts" (shotgun threads) so iffin you go rile'ing up folks with all your fancy forward assist talk, you just might just even get a load of buckshot put in your britches!

[Smith]

:chill: Okay..I guess you can't or at least didn't in this case, differentiate between a joke and a serious argument.

Nah, I got it. Smilies are not as easy to use on my phone as the computer. ;) I should have added one after my first sentence. Been around here long enough I forget not everyone knows most stuff is tongue in cheek.

[JAB]

Survival rifle?  No one told me we were talking about survival rifles; that places a whole different light on the entire thread then because everyone knows that the AR/5.56 platform is completely inadequate for survival. ;)

 

For survival rifles you actually need two; a Ruger 10/22 (that's assuming you can find 22 ammo) and a Barrett 82A1; what the 22 can't handle the 50BMG will and anything too small for the 50 the 22 should do nicely

 

But that Barret only has a ten round magazine.  Would you really want to depend on something with such a low ammo capacity for survival? :cool: