Let's talk shotguns... I know practically nothing :/

[Guest glocklocker19]

I got the chance to shoot a 12 gauge last weekend for the first time ever and I fell in love, even though it kicks harder than what I am used to (AR-15 for reference). My father-in-law was visiting this past weekend and brought his Savage Arms 12 gauge with him, it was a really nice rifle and had two barrels, one short, one long. I shot both and it was great. 

 

I know I definitely want one, and it will most likely be a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. My intentions with this rifle are for home defense and range time, I don't do any hunting. I don't know what to start looking for however, and the choice of ammo I see out there is abundant and confusing. I think I understand the difference between buck and scatter shot, but that's about it. I also see there are different sizes? Such as 2 3/4, 3 etc. My only experience with firearms is with pistols and an AR-15 so I am used to using one type of ammo and that's it :) 

 

Any suggestions on what to get? I don't want to spend a lot of money on one, maybe $300-$500. And on the ammo, can all 12 gauge ammo be fired in a 12 gauge rifle, regardless of type? 

[UncleJak]

I suggest the Maverick 88.  It is interchangeable with all mossberg 500 parts and can be bought new for under $200.  I buy the 2 3/4 ammo from walmart 100 rounds for $25.  It is just regular birdshot (small pellets) but will work fine for self defense and hunting if you ever get into it. 

[glock55]

i have a Mossberg 590a1 with 18.5 inch barrel and ghost ring sights. i have a vertical grip and stream light tlr2 mounted under the barrel.  imho the perfect home defense shotgun. it shoots anything i stuff in it.

[xjsnake]

I got the chance to shoot a 12 gauge last weekend for the first time ever and I fell in love, even though it kicks harder than what I am used to (AR-15 for reference). My father-in-law was visiting this past weekend and brought his Savage Arms 12 gauge with him, it was a really nice shotgun and had two barrels, one short, one long. I shot both and it was great. 

 

I know I definitely want one, and it will most likely be a Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. My intentions with this shotgun are for home defense and range time, I don't do any hunting. I don't know what to start looking for however, and the choice of ammo I see out there is abundant and confusing. I think I understand the difference between buck and scatter shot, but that's about it. I also see there are different sizes? Such as 2 3/4, 3 etc. My only experience with firearms is with pistols and an AR-15 so I am used to using one type of ammo and that's it :)

 

Any suggestions on what to get? I don't want to spend a lot of money on one, maybe $300-$500. And on the ammo, can all 12 gauge ammo be fired in a 12 gauge shotgun, regardless of type? 

 

Ok let's talk basics. Shotguns come in different sizes called gauges. This only has to do with the diameter of the shell not the length. If you are wanting a 12 gauge shotgun then you have 3 major choices of shell lengths 2 3/4"  3" and 3 1/2". Most new pump 12 ga shotguns have a 3" chamber which means they can shoot both 3" and 2 3/4" shells. Conversely if you have a shotgun with a 2 3/4" chamber it will NOT shoot 3" shells.

 

Your best choices for a home defense shotgun for under $500 are in no particular order: Remington 870, Mossberg 500, Maverick 88, IAC Hawk/H&R Pardner, Winchester SXP and Stevens 350. You will want a shotgun with a 18.5-20" barrel and a minimum capacity of 5 rounds. 

 

In terms of ammo you will want buckshot for defensive purposes. I would recommend #1 buckshot but 00 buckshot is fine for defensive use as well.

[Guest glocklocker19]

Ok let's talk basics. Shotguns come in different sizes called gauges. This only has to do with the diameter of the shell not the length. If you are wanting a 12 gauge shotgun then you have 3 major choices of shell lengths 2 3/4"  3" and 3 1/2". Most new pump 12 ga shotguns have a 3" chamber which means they can shoot both 3" and 2 3/4" shells. Conversely if you have a shotgun with a 2 3/4" chamber it will NOT shoot 3" shells.

 

Your best choices for a home defense shotgun for under $500 are in no particular order: Remington 870, Mossberg 500, Maverick 88, IAC Hawk/H&R Pardner, Winchester SXP and Stevens 350. You will want a shotgun with a 18.5-20" barrel and a minimum capacity of 5 rounds. 

 

In terms of ammo you will want buckshot for defensive purposes. I would recommend #1 buckshot but 00 buckshot is fine for defensive use as well.

Thank you! This is exactly what I was looking for, so thanks for the clarification :)

 

I suggest the Maverick 88.  It is interchangeable with all mossberg 500 parts and can be bought new for under $200.  I buy the 2 3/4 ammo from walmart 100 rounds for $25.  It is just regular birdshot (small pellets) but will work fine for self defense and hunting if you ever get into it. 

I've seen reference quite a bit to the Maverick 88 and I may look at one next time I'm in WalMart (if they have one). Sounds inexpensive and might fit the bill. 

[Trekbike]

Whatever you get, don't get sucked into going with a pistol grip. They look cool in the movies but not for use in the real world. My comment is not to be confused with a stock that also has a pistol grip. Those can be useful if you like that style. Nothing wrong with a regular stock on a HD shotgun. I went with a Knoxx adjustable pistol grip stock on my 870 since the factory length of pull was too long for my wife to shoulder and still be able to pump it.

[Garufa]

You should try sporting clays sometime.  Great fun.

 

BTW, it's a shotgun, not a rifle.  ;)

[Guest glocklocker19]

You should try sporting clays sometime.  Great fun.

 

BTW, it's a shotgun, not a rifle.  ;)

 

Understood, thank you! :)

 

I shot clays one time with a 20 gauge years ago, and it was indeed much fun! We have a local club here that has 2 or 3 skeet ranges and I might just give it a go sometime. 

[tartanphantom]

Whatever you get, don't get sucked into going with a pistol grip. They look cool in the movies but not for use in the real world. My comment is not to be confused with a stock that also has a pistol grip. Those can be useful if you like that style. Nothing wrong with a regular stock on a HD shotgun. I went with a Knoxx adjustable pistol grip stock on my 870 since the factory length of pull was too long for my wife to shoulder and still be able to pump it.

 

+1 on sticking with a regular style stock. 

[TnShooter83]

I'd look for a Remingitn 870, Winchester SXP (or 1200/1300) or Mossberg 500.

I'd also go with at least a 26" barrel if you ever want to use it for any sporting shoots or hunts.

I personally find a 28" barrel to be the best all around length. I know a shorter barrel is easier to

handle in a defence situation. But you thank yourself later when you don't have to buy another barrel.

 

I would also find one with interchangable choke tubes. Most ALL newer shotguns have this.

This way you can use a Cylinder bore choke for home defence (slugs) and others for sporting.

I've found you can do all you need with 4 chokes (Full, Modified, Improved Cylinder, and Cylinder)

 

Hope this info helps.

[glowdotGlock]

All of the above shotguns mentioned are great. I'm an 870 guy myself. I've got and 870 marine magnum for my HD gun. I like the marine magnum not because I'm tough on the finish but I think they just look cool. I agree too that just pistol grips alone suck. Just a novelty in my opinion. I keep it loaded with just plain ol' Remington (green/yellow) box 00 buck. I've got a 5 shell holder on the side with more 00 and a couple slugs. Shotguns are excellent for HD. My RRA LAR 15 used to be my bedside long gun but the reliability of a pump shotty makes me feel better.

[Guest glocklocker19]

Great suggestions all... thank you. I totally agree on no pistol grip, I've always thought they looked kinda silly on a shotgun anyhow.

 

I had one of my in-law's push me in the direction of a shotgun for home defense because he made a great point, if someone breaks into your house, and they hear the "klik-klak" of a pump action shotgun, chances are they will leave before it goes bang. If they don't leave... well 12 gauges make nice holes from what I experienced last weekend :D

[nightrunner]

Great suggestions all... thank you. I totally agree on no pistol grip, I've always thought they looked kinda silly on a shotgun anyhow.

I had one of my in-law's push me in the direction of a shotgun for home defense because he made a great point, if someone breaks into your house, and they hear the "klik-klak" of a pump action shotgun, chances are they will leave before it goes bang. If they don't leave... well 12 gauges make nice holes from what I experienced last weekend :D

No! Keep the thing chambered. If someone has bad enough intentions to break into someone elses house, particularly when they are home, they are willing to take care of you and you just gave away your position. The element of surprise and "home field advantage" is your best friend here

[leroy]

I concur with those who recommend short barrel pump shotguns for home defense.  I really like the mossberg 500 series guns that have the safety on top of the tang instead like the old remingtons and winchesters side safeties in front of the trigger guard.  I've got a short barrelled browning BPS beside my bed with a tang safety (...they are bottom eject shotguns; the mossberg and most others are side eject...).  I chose it because i got a good buy on it from a buddy here on  TGO; and because im a shotgun "junkie".  It's a plane jane 18 inch pump with a magazine extension.  It is loaded and ready to go (...one in the chamber...). Nightrunner is exactly right in his post above. Should trouble come; you need to be ready.  All i have to do is push the safety forward should (...God forbid...) i need it in some terrible situation.  I like the 2 3/4 loads for the 12 gage guns.  We can quibble about which shot size is best; but at household ranges it aint gonna make much difference.  I would recommend (...as others have done as well...) a set of good sights.

 

The only other point i would make is to handle and shoot your shotgun until you are absolutely familiar with it.  Many times we overlook this point in our discussions, because we automatically assume everyone else is a regular shooter, but ya need to be able to handle your weapon of choice without havin to look at it or without tryin to remember where everything is.  You need to know with certainity how to operate it.  Get yourself a bunch of reasonably priced ammo and burn a bunch of it thru your shotgun.  Get familiar with it.  It's a skill ya need to cultivate, its fun and it may be (...God forbid...)  necessary if that terrible day comes when you have to level it at an intruder or nut to stop him.

 

Hope this helps

leroy

Edited June 3, 2013 by leroy

[Jonnin]

Speaking of basics, its not a "rifle" (if no one said it yet).  The bore is not rifled, its smooth, usually (some are for hunting with slugs which sort of turns the gun into a rifle, this is a less common setup).  They are always referred to as a shotgun though.

 

I know little of pump guns as I prefer semi-autos.  The semi-autos reduce the recoil somewhat but can be, like any semi-auto, picky about ammo (mostly there is some really weak/cheap ammo that won't cycle them).   The bulk of autos use the same design browning came up with in the early 1900s -- its pretty well been tested and refined.  

 

Most modern guns let you  increase the capacity with a cheap ($30 or so?) tube extension; IMHO the tube and barrel should be the same length and as another said, 5 is a good minimum.  The big shells are 3 inches so 5 of those is 15 inches which is not even a legal shotgun barrel length....  18 inches is 6 rounds, and one more in the chamber is 7, not bad at all. 

 

Besides extra capacity, a sling may or may not interest you.  And a recoil pad, a slip on type is fine, can help if you want to shoot it a lot at one time (clays etc).  You may want a way to have some extra rounds on the gun, some folks do.  I have a $5 nylon shell holder that goes on the stock, there are metal ones that are nice but cost more if you prefer that look (they mount to the gun frame not the stock)

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jonnin

[Jamie Jackson]

Excellent suggestions above.

 

 

Something one may wish to consider is the idiosyncrasies of a particular shotgun. Shotguns are like women, some may look similar, but they are uniquely different. :D

From my experience, every shotgun has a particular brand of and load of ammo, which they pattern best with. This certainly goes for slugs, regarding point of aim vs point of impact, as well.

My Mossy (Vang Comped 590) has a preference for Federal H-132 00 Buck. I arrived at this thru trial and error. Fortunately, it also like Federal slugs also. I generally purchase them by case lots.

FWIW Defensive Shotgun patterns are generally referred to by their zones.

These are the A, B, & C zones. Author John Marrs in an [url=http://www.officer.com/print/Law-Enforcement-Technology/In-defense-of-the-shotgun/1$40875] article for Officer.com entitled “In Defense of the Shotgun”[/url] explains it better than I do.

“A shotgun has three levels of use typically referred to as zones. The A zone is where the shotgun is a truly devastating weapon. It's measured from the muzzle out to where the buckshot pattern stays together so that it makes one big ugly hole in the target; this hole can be covered with your open hand. Depending on the weapon/ammo combination, the A zone is out to around 7 to 10 yards.

The B zone is where the pellets have had time to spread out and develop a pattern but are still on target. This is the zone where the shotgun is most effective and can be exploited to the fullest. The weapon can be fired quickly with a flash sight picture and still make good hits. The B zone goes from about 10 to 20 yards. Inside 20 yards, the shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot is king, but if you need to engage a target at more than 20 yards and you only have 00 buck, the rifle is the way to go.

The C zone is the point at which the pellets spread out and some may be off the target. While still lethal, the loss of control of the pattern makes the use of buckshot unacceptable for law enforcement.” John Marrs

{Most shotgun training doctrine teaches a transition to slugs upon reaching the C Zone, this is how I was trained.}
 

Defensive Shotguns:

Pistol Grips: I don’t really care for them. They have never been a hindrance on the Benelli or Remington 870’s I’ve run. But I feel they impede the acquisition of the safety on my Mossberg.

Carry Strap (of sling, if you prefer): An absolute necessity. Shotguns get heavy, there is always some administrative detail to attend, and last but not least, I’d rather hang on to my shotgun during a transition to sidearm than drop it on the ground.

Spare ammo: I like to use a [url=http://www.tacstar.com/home/6-shot.php ] Side Saddle shotshell carrier[/url]. At least when I have to grab and go, I’ll have a reload.

 

Sidesaddle link: http://www.tacstar.com/home/6-shot.php

 

Edited: trouble with link...

 

Edited June 3, 2013 by prag

[Jonnin]

Right. ^^^

The nylon version of the side saddle:

http://www.amazon.com/Allen-Company-Buttstock-Shotgun-Holder/dp/B0016814WS

 

and obviously (or not) you could have both :)

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jonnin

[RobertNashville]

You should try sporting clays sometime.  Great fun.

 

BTW, it's a shotgun, not a rifle.  ;)

Seems like forever (only about a year though) since I got to shoot some clays...maybe you need to put a TGO Clay Shoot together???  ;)

[hlb14]

 

I would also find one with interchangable choke tubes. Most ALL newer shotguns have this.

This way you can use a Cylinder bore choke for home defence (slugs) and others for sporting.

I've found you can do all you need with 4 chokes (Full, Modified, Improved Cylinder, and Cylinder)

 

 

I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking for a shotgun for home defense, and know nothing about them. What is a choke and what purpose does it serve?

[Jonnin]

I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking for a shotgun for home defense, and know nothing about them. What is a choke and what purpose does it serve?

 

A choke is a small metal ring that threads into the inside of the barrel (at the far end where the shot exits the barrel).  The different sizes (thickness, really) and shapes work to change how different types of shotshells pattern.  They can be dangerous if you forget the wrong type in the barrel and shoot off a slug (barrel obstruction..!).    There is more detailed info online about the types and what they do for different purposes. 

 

I would run without a choke for home defense; but my HD shotgun is fulla slugs and buckshot and expected to be used at just a few yards.   Chokes are, IMHO, for use in hunting applications more than defense.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jonnin

[Jamie Jackson]

I'm in the same boat as the OP, looking for a shotgun for home defense, and know nothing about them. What is a choke and what purpose does it serve?

 

A "full" choke gives a tight pattern and is useful for certain hunting applications, i.e. deer. Improved cylinder, modified etc for birds...

 

I don't hunt with one and I don't shoot trap or skeet...but many are much more knowledgeable than I am on the topic and can offer much better info and suggestions.

 

Here's a good explanation from [url=http://www.briley.com/understandingshotgunchokesabriefexplanationbybriley.aspx] Briley[/url].

 

 

 

My Mossy 590 came with a cylinder bore...essentially no choke. And it patterned well with defensive loads. After several thousand rounds through it, I sent it to [url=https://vangcomp.com] Hans Vang[/url] to be "comped". This extended the 00 Buck grouping I use dramatically. Some, if not many, may not see the utility in it. To each their, it met my needs... :pleased:

Edited June 3, 2013 by prag

[hlb14]

A choke is a small metal ring that threads into the inside of the barrel (at the far end where the shot exits the barrel).  The different sizes (thickness, really) and shapes work to change how different types of shotshells pattern.  They can be dangerous if you forget the wrong type in the barrel and shoot off a slug (barrel obstruction..!).    There is more detailed info online about the types and what they do for different purposes. 

 

I would run without a choke for home defense; but my HD shotgun is fulla slugs and buckshot and expected to be used at just a few yards.   Chokes are, IMHO, for use in hunting applications more than defense.

 

 

 

A "full" choke gives a tight pattern and is useful for certain hunting applications, i.e. deer. Improved cylinder, modified etc for birds...

 

I don't hunt with one and I don't shoot trap or skeet...but many are much more knowledgeable than I am on the topic and can offer much better info and suggestions.

 

Here's a good explanation from Briley.

 

 

 

My Mossy 590 came with a cylinder bore...essentially no choke. And it patterned well with defensive loads. After several thousand rounds through it, I sent it to Hans Vang to be "comped". This extended the 00 Buck grouping I use dramatically. Some, if not many, may not see the utility in it. To each their, it met my needs... :pleased:

 

thanks, that makes sense now

[dcloudy777]

There's been some pretty good info being shared here.  But your AR (provided it's a reliable gun), is as good or better a defensive tool in every measurable category.  Shotguns are for hunting, shooting three-gun and tactical shotgun matches, and for turning into short-barreled shotguns so you can show them off and play at the range.  Rifles are just better... an AR15-type rifle can do everything (from an anti-personnel standpoint) that a shotgun can do, and a whole lot more.

The shotgun, while indeed a powerful weapon, has limited ammunition capacity, limited range, and is the most diificult weapon system to learn how to "fight" effectively.

I do keep 14" 870 loaded with buckshot, but it's a backup to one or two rifles that I would grab first.

The only way I'd recommend a shotgun for defensive purposes is if someone can't sweing the money for a decent rifle (shotguns are indeed cheaper)... but you already have one.  If you want a shotgun, by all means, buy one (this is America, after all), but If I were you I'd just buy one that's fun to shoot.... coach gun or something maybe.

 

  DanO

[JAB]

 

A "full" choke gives a tight pattern and is useful for certain hunting applications, i.e. deer. Improved cylinder, modified etc for birds...

 

Just to avoid confusion for those asking questions who say they know 'next to nothing' about shotguns, I want to point out that using a choke and achieving a tight pattern for hunting deer is moot in TN as buckshot is not legal for taking deer in this state.  Unless the rules have changed drastically in the last year or two, slugs are the only option for legally taking deer with a shotgun in Tennessee.  Seems kind of odd in a way - after all, it is called 'buckshot'.

[chances R]

There's been some pretty good info being shared here.  But your AR (provided it's a reliable gun), is as good or better a defensive tool in every measurable category.  Shotguns are for hunting, shooting three-gun and tactical shotgun matches, and for turning into short-barreled shotguns so you can show them off and play at the range.  Rifles are just better... an AR15-type rifle can do everything (from an anti-personnel standpoint) that a shotgun can do, and a whole lot more.

The shotgun, while indeed a powerful weapon, has limited ammunition capacity, limited range, and is the most diificult weapon system to learn how to "fight" effectively.

I do keep 14" 870 loaded with buckshot, but it's a backup to one or two rifles that I would grab first.

The only way I'd recommend a shotgun for defensive purposes is if someone can't sweing the money for a decent rifle (shotguns are indeed cheaper)... but you already have one.  If you want a shotgun, by all means, buy one (this is America, after all), but If I were you I'd just buy one that's fun to shoot.... coach gun or something maybe.

 

  DanO

 

 

 

 

Dan, I think there are a whole lot of ground troops that would disagree with your statement that is in bold.  The shotgun has a long standing history of use in about all wars for trench, urban, CQB.......especially in Iraq and Afhganastan.