Church asks boys scouts to leave.

[RobertNashville]

Well from reading some of the coments about this issue on leftist forums such as Huffington Post & Democratic Underground they (the left) are not finished pushing/slandering/intimidating/suing the BSA & BSA sponsers until the BSA allows "openly gay adult leaders" to participate in scouting.

As well they should be allowed.

 

There is zero reason for barring participation by gay scout leaders just like there is zero reason for barring participation by gay scouts...as long as there is no sexual impropriety going on it doesn't and shouldn't matter.

[daddyo]

As well they should be allowed.

 

There is zero reason for barring participation by gay scout leaders just like there is zero reason for barring participation by gay scouts...as long as there is no sexual impropriety going on it doesn't and shouldn't matter.

 

I believe we're going to see that it matters to a significant number of people.

[Dennis1209]

As an Eagle Scout, an assistant Scout Master, & BSA commitee member, I can say this is far from a highly supported decision & personally I think it's a load of BS! The BSA, which is a private organization, is allowing pressure from outside to sway them into giving in. Organizations within the BSA are already suffering & I fear this will be the beggining of the end for the Boy Scouts. Yesterday I received an email stating that our district's OA (Order of the Arrow) will be canceling some meetings, camp outs, & activities until further notice & some Scout Masters are resigning & some troops are shutting down in protest to the BSA's decision. The Boy Scouts of America's decision to give in just to keep the rainbow riders happy helps no one!

 

It's been half a decade since I was a scout but I seem to remember...

 

On my honor I promise to do my best and do my duty to God and country and obey the scout laws. To remain... "Morally straight"? I think that used to be in there?

 

I was wondering how long it would take the BSA to get corrupted. The GS were taken over by and now support Planned Parenthood. Use to buy ton's of GS cookies and Boy Scout eats during their drives, but not anymore unfortunately since the organizations caved into what I don't believe or support. Crying shame!

 

What's next, 4-H and beastality?

[RobertNashville]

It's been half a decade since I was a scout but I seem to remember...

 

On my honor I promise to do my best and do my duty to God and country and obey the scout laws. To remain... "Morally straight"? I think that used to be in there?

 

I was wondering how long it would take the BSA to get corrupted. The GS were taken over by and now support Planned Parenthood. Use to buy ton's of GS cookies and Boy Scout eats during their drives, but not anymore unfortunately since the organizations caved into what I don't believe or support. Crying shame!

 

What's next, 4-H and beastality?

Who's morals?  Not even all churches agree on the morality or lack of it when it comes to same sex attraction and/or what sexual acts are "moral" and which one's aren't.

 

The BSA has made it very clear that is asserts NO one particular religion or religious principles so.

 

I judge people's "morals" by what they do; not by which sex they are attracted to.

[RobertNashville]

I believe we're going to see that it matters to a significant number of people.

Well, I suggest that for far more significant numbers of people, it won't matter.

Edited June 2, 2013 by RobertNashville

[East_TN_Patriot]

You are correct, it does go both ways.  However, this situation is not applicable.  An individual or group of individuals didn't like the original BSA policy, so through government and media influence they attacked BSA and coerced them into changing their policy.  Now that the BSA has changed their policy, some individuals and organizations have left or they have decided to no longer associate themselves with the BSA.  What is now happening to them?  They are being attacked for standing behind their prinicples.  It is easy to see which side has been the aggressor.

I'm sure that your argument was virtually identical a few decades ago related to non-whites who wanted to join and lead the Boy Scouts.  The history of racism within the Scouts is not a secret and many civil rights leaders and early urban gang members specifically reference their exclusion from the organization as a reason for their anger with white society.  

 

 

No one who has ever studied the history of the Boy Scouts of America can deny that the organization allowed (and in some cases, encouraged) councils to adopt a policy of racial discrimination until 1974. It was not until 1942, that the last council rescinded its ban on African Americans from being Boy Scouts. Up until this time, councils, under pressure from their local communities were permitted, even encouraged, by the National Council to ban minority boys (eg: African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, etc.) from joining. In many cases, if the BSA National Council had previously commissioned an African American to be a Scoutmaster (or issued a charter to an African American troop), when a white-led council was formed in the area, these leaders and units would be expelled from the BSA, with the full support of the BSA and its Chief Scout Executive at the time, James E. West.

 

http://www.bsa-discrimination.org/html/bsa_-_race.html

 

[East_TN_Patriot]

It's been half a decade since I was a scout but I seem to remember...

 

On my honor I promise to do my best and do my duty to God and country and obey the scout laws. To remain... "Morally straight"? I think that used to be in there?

 

I was wondering how long it would take the BSA to get corrupted. The GS were taken over by and now support Planned Parenthood. Use to buy ton's of GS cookies and Boy Scout eats during their drives, but not anymore unfortunately since the organizations caved into what I don't believe or support. Crying shame!

 

What's next, 4-H and beastality?

I guess we need to get rid of any leader who has been divorced, ever been charged with a crime, gotten a traffic ticket (or speeds to and from BSA meetings), curses, gambles, drinks, smokes, overeats, looks at any pornographic material, doesn't pray regularly, doesn't go to church regularly (defined as little as once per week to as much as seven days per week), doesn't consistently tithe, or any other number of transgressions that doesn't fit into what one considers being "morally straight" in this world.  

How about Muslims or Jews in the BSA?  Are they allowed or can they not be "morally straight" because they believe in a different religion? 

[TMF]

You are correct, it does go both ways. However, this situation is not applicable. An individual or group of individuals didn't like the original BSA policy, so through government and media influence they attacked BSA and coerced them into changing their policy. Now that the BSA has changed their policy, some individuals and organizations have left or they have decided to no longer associate themselves with the BSA. What is now happening to them? They are being attacked for standing behind their prinicples. It is easy to see which side has been the aggressor.

I've been attacked plenty of times for my beliefs but that hasn't influenced me to change them. If I suddenly decided that I wanted to change my beliefs in response to attacks or for the sake of conformity, doesn't that decision still lie with me?

[daddyo]

Well, I suggest that for far more significant numbers of people, it won't matter.

 

We'll see.

[RobertNashville]

We'll see.

Yes we will and either way, it's totally immaterial how many people agree or don't agree with the BSA's decision.

[luvmyberetta]

I guess we need to get rid of any leader who has been divorced, ever been charged with a crime, gotten a traffic ticket (or speeds to and from BSA meetings), curses, gambles, drinks, smokes, overeats, looks at any pornographic material, doesn't pray regularly, doesn't go to church regularly (defined as little as once per week to as much as seven days per week), doesn't consistently tithe, or any other number of transgressions that doesn't fit into what one considers being "morally straight" in this world.  

How about Muslims or Jews in the BSA?  Are they allowed or can they not be "morally straight" because they believe in a different religion? 

 

IMO that was a very ignorant response. The BSA doesn't tell you what religion or what God you must follow, but they do ask that you believe in God. As far as "...curses, drinks, looks at porno", & the rest.... if you follow the laws of Scouting & are "morally straight" you probably don't do those anyway & even if you do, they would be prohibited in front of the kids & on all Scouting functions. You obviously have no clue as to what it takes to lead a youth group & what the BSA truely stands for. It's not about being a bunch of saints, but leading by example. No one is perfect & shouldn't try to be. The BSA is about building character.

[RobertNashville]

...The BSA doesn't tell you what religion or what God you must follow, but they do ask that you believe in God. As far as "...curses, drinks, looks at porno", & the rest.... if you follow the laws of Scouting & are "morally straight" you probably don't do those anyway & even if you do, they would be prohibited in front of the kids & on all Scouting functions....

So why, exactly, is someone who is attracted to the same sex, singled out for special exclusion? 

 

I'm sure some folks here are saints and never engage in anything that others would call "sin" but I"m getting the feeling that there are more than a few here who are near hysteria about "gays" (someone attracted to the sex) being allowed in scouts but seem more than willing to turn a blind eye to other "sins".

 

I find that odd...and more than a bit hypocritical.

[Guest nra37922]

All, worshiping the false god PC has led to many being neutered with their nuts being kept in vats of formaldehyde in D.C.  IF they toe the line they may be allowed to visit their nuts one day.  And to think it wasn't that long ago that we only had to worry about the Mrs keeping them locked up

Edited June 2, 2013 by nra37922

[mav]

I've been attacked plenty of times for my beliefs but that hasn't influenced me to change them. If I suddenly decided that I wanted to change my beliefs in response to attacks or for the sake of conformity, doesn't that decision still lie with me?

 

Of course the decision lies with you, but I don't see what that has do with what I am talking about.  The point I am trying to convey is we have too many people that get their jollies by sticking their nose into other's business.  Yes, yes, I know it occurs on both sides of the aisle, which I mentioned in another thread.  In this case, we have a church, which is a private organization, who disagreed with the BSA's decision regarding homosexuality.  They are now taking action based on their disagreement.  What are they getting in return?  Mockery, hate speech, demonization, etc...  My question is why?

 

Are people's lives so boring that they have nothing better to do than to concern themselves with the actions of some podunk Alabama church?  As I stated in an earlier thread, and you mentioned in this one, we would be much better off if everyone minded their own business.  If an individual or organization didn't like the BSA's original stance on homosexuality, well... that is tough.  Perhaps they should have started their own similar organization that was all inclusive.  Are they that special that they felt it was incumbent upon them to change the BSA?  I would argue they are not, and we would all have been much better off if they just shrugged it off and went about their business.   Now that BSA has changed its stance, people should be free to disassociate themselves with BSA if they don't like it without the aforementioned attacks.  If BSA had been a public institution, my views would be different.

[luvmyberetta]

So why, exactly, is someone who is attracted to the same sex, singled out for special exclusion? 

 

I'm sure some folks here are saints and never engage in anything that others would call "sin" but I"m getting the feeling that there are more than a few here who are near hysteria about "gays" (someone attracted to the sex) being allowed in scouts but seem more than willing to turn a blind eye to other "sins".

 

I find that odd...and more than a bit hypocritical.

 

Because 99% of religions consider homosexuality immoral. By the way, the BSA is a private organization & no one is required to join.

[RobertNashville]

...In this case, we have a church, which is a private organization, who disagreed with the BSA's decision regarding homosexuality.  They are now taking action based on their disagreement.  What are they getting in return?  Mockery, hate speech, demonization, etc...  My question is why?

My question is; what posts are you talking about - in what posts has this church been getting "mockery, hate speech, demonetization" because I must have missed them.

 

I've seen many posts disagreeing about the BSA's decision but I haven't seen anyone here suggest that this church or any other doesn't have the right to no longer support their particular BSA troop nor have I seen posts that are mocking, hateful or demonetizing this church for their decision.

[RobertNashville]

Because 99% of religions consider homosexuality immoral. By the way, the BSA is a private organization & no one is required to join.

Oh...I see...so lying, steeling, taking the Lord's name in vain, impure thoughts, adultery, gluttony, greed, envy, a male being sexually attracted to females (that's called heterosexuality) is perfectly okay or at least no big deal; it's only "homosexuality" (a male being sexually attracted to males) that's immoral and should be banned from scouting.  :rolleyes:

 

I'm glad we cleared that up.

Edited June 2, 2013 by RobertNashville

[mav]

My question is; what posts are you talking about - in what posts has this church been getting "mockery, hate speech, demonetization" because I must have missed them.

 

I've seen many posts disagreeing about the BSA's decision but I haven't seen anyone here suggest that this church or any other doesn't have the right to no longer support their particular BSA troop nor have I seen posts that are mocking, hateful or demonetizing this church for their decision.

 

Robert, the internet is rife with what I am talking about.  In regards to TGO, there is clearly animosity towards Christians by certain individuals.  If you can't deduce it from the posts being made (not just in this thread), then I cannot help you because you will never see it.

[luvmyberetta]

Oh...I see...so lying, steeling, taking the Lord's name in vain, impure thoughts, adultery, gluttony, greed, envy, a male being sexually attracted to females (that's called heterosexuality) is perfectly okay or at least no big deal; it's only "homosexuality" (a male being sexually attracted to males) that's immoral and should be banned from scouting.  :rolleyes:

 

I'm glad we cleared that up.

 

Oviously you're either gay yourself & have a problem with my opinion or you just enjoy being a troll. So far you've turned every word I've said around without even reading my earlier posts.

[RobertNashville]

Robert, the internet is rife with what I am talking about.  In regards to TGO, there is clearly animosity towards Christians by certain individuals.  If you can't deduce it from the posts being made (not just in this thread), then I cannot help you because you will never see it.

It wasn't clear to me that you were referring to the entire internet.  As to TGO; I would suggest that you are incorrectly and inappropriately confusing animosity with disagreement about societal issues.  There are some here who keep talking about Christian values as if they are consistent within all Christendom when the truth is that how such policies are made and practiced aren't even consistent within a particular denomination or branch of Christianity.

[RobertNashville]

Oviously you're either gay yourself & have a problem with my opinion or you just enjoy being a troll. So far you've turned every word I've said around without even reading my earlier posts.

That's your response; call me gay or a troll?  Is that how you typically respond to those who don't agree with you.

 

My "problem" is not with your opinion; my problem is that neither you or anyone else seems able to answer a simple, direct question which is "why, exactly, is someone who is attracted to the same sex, singled out for special exclusion from scouting"?  In your first reply to that question you said "because 99% of religions consider homosexuality immoral" I'm not even sure that assertion is actually accurate but whether it is or isn't, your reply would seem to imply that the other sins specifically mentioned were of no concern (because if they were they would receive similar preclusion as does a homosexual boy).

 

Homosexuality is nothing more than a way to describe someone who is sexually attracted to the same sex...heterosexuality is simply someone who is attracted to the opposite sex. So I ask, why should one be allowed but the other specifically excluded from scouting...how is it in any way relevant what sex any one is attracted to unless they are engaging in sex acts which is not allowed or tolerated in scouting in the first place?

Edited June 2, 2013 by RobertNashville

[mav]

 As to TGO; I would suggest that you are incorrectly and inappropriately confusing animosity with disagreement about societal issues. 

 

I believe I am intelligent enough to discern the difference.  It is one of the reasons why I pretty much stay out of religious discussions.  On matters of faith, I have pretty much taken the stance that if people leave me alone, then I will leave them alone.

[daddyo]

Yes we will and either way, it's totally immaterial how many people agree or don't agree with the BSA's decision.

 

To you, maybe.

[daddyo]

So why, exactly, is someone who is attracted to the same sex, singled out for special exclusion? 

 

I'm sure some folks here are saints and never engage in anything that others would call "sin" but I"m getting the feeling that there are more than a few here who are near hysteria about "gays" (someone attracted to the sex) being allowed in scouts but seem more than willing to turn a blind eye to other "sins".

 

I find that odd...and more than a bit hypocritical.

 

Honestly, I'm not seeing the "hysteria" that you are referring to.

[RobertNashville]

I believe I am intelligent enough to discern the difference.  It is one of the reasons why I pretty much stay out of religious discussions.  On matters of faith, I have pretty much taken the stance that if people leave me alone, then I will leave them alone.

 

I wasn't questioning your intellect, either and if you took it that way I apologize.

 

I just don't see the animosity coming from others toward "Christians"...I see strong disagreement about this issue and about whether any certain religion's belief system should be imposed on a secular, private and predominately a-religious organization.

Edited June 2, 2013 by RobertNashville