ATM Bank Robber Gets Shot in Head

[Guest Hyaloid]

STORY LINK

Back to web version Monday, Aug 4, 2008

Posted on Sat, Aug. 02, 2008

Bank customer shoots gunman after robbery

By RUSS PULLEY

The Kansas City Star A bank customer shot a robber after an armed confrontation in a Kansas City parking lot Saturday.The robber was wounded in the head and was in stable condition at a hospital, police said.

The shooting happened about 9 a.m. when a man and a woman were in a car using the automated teller machine at the Bank of America at North Oak Trafficway and Barry Road.

They were robbed at gunpoint, but as the gunman walked away, the man in the car got out armed with his own gun, said Sgt. Chris Lantz of the department’s robbery unit.

The man yelled for the robber to stop. When the robber turned around and pointed his gun, the man fired at him, hitting him in the head, Lantz said.

At the scene Saturday, investigators were collecting evidence from a dark sedan parked next to the ATM. An object that looked like a handgun was lying on the pavement. Nearby were apparent bloodstains.

Police interviewed the couple and witnesses.

The robbery victim had a permit to carry a concealed gun, Lantz said. Under the circumstances, Lantz said, that would not matter because he could legally carry the weapon in his car.

No criminal case has been presented, and authorities are waiting to see whether the patient recovers, said Jim Roberts, spokesman for the Clay County prosecutor’s office.

Police ask that anyone who witnessed the incident call the TIPS Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (474-8477).

The Star’s Glenn Rice contributed to this report. To reach Russ Pulley, call 816-234-7811 or send e-mail to rpulley@kcstar.com.

© 2007 Kansas City Star and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. http://www.kansascity.com

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Personally, I am saddened the dirt bag didn't die. However, I think the robbery victim is lucky. From the sounds of it, the robber was leaving the scene, and had it been me I THINK I would have took off like a bat out of hell in the car, not gotten out and drawn down on the fella... now, if the car ACCIDENTALLY struck the robber while making my 'retreat', well, every job has its hazards.

Getting out only gives the bad guy time to react (he had to turn around), and opens you up to appearing like an aggressor to some weenie district attorney.

[Guest GT_Rat]

Sounds like someone needs a larger caliber handgun.

[Guest janwbrown616]

Them ATM's cause a lot of crime:p

[molonlabetn]

Them ATM's cause a lot of crime:p

Ban them!

If people didn't have such quick access to large sums of cash, criminals wouldn't be tempted to commit robberies!

The first step is to introduce some common-sense ATM restrictions... first, limit transactions to $10, subject to a 3-day waiting period; and second, register the s/n of every bill withdrawn to the identity of the account-holder, for verification when spent... also, private transfers of cash must then be strictly prohibited, both parties must visit a bank to register any transfer.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Ban them!

If people didn't have such quick access to large sums of cash, criminals would be tempted to commit robberies!

The first step is to introduce some common-sense ATM restrictions... first, limit transactions to $10, subject to a 3-day waiting period; and second, register the s/n of every bill withdrawn to the identity of the account-holder, for verification when spent... also, private transfers of cash must then be strictly prohibited, both parties must visit a bank to register any transfer.

We should take it even further... we must also limit wallet capacity, they cannot hold more than $20. Why would anyone go shopping where they would need more than that in cash?

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

I might be in the minority here, but it sounds like this guy made a really dumb move. The bad guy was walking away and the good guy gets out of his car to pursue. First he risked getting himself hurt or killed when he should have just driven away and called the cops. Second he risked getting charged with assault or murder by pursuing the guy, essentially creating a new situation after the first situation had ended. The time to pull the gun would have been when he was actually being robbed.

[molonlabetn]

If he or his loved one were in the line of fire... I can understand the decision to engage once the situation presented an opening to do so.

Kudos to the guy for not letting the robber get away. I would, of course, have a problem with the victim shooting the robber in the back as he was escaping... but when the robber turned back around, it was certainly still 'on'. There is no reason why the victim couldn't demand the return of his belongings/money, and have the means to prevent a retaliatory assault.

[creeky]

Every time I see an ATM machine I can't help but think "Watering hole".

Then those old "Mutual of Omaha" old wild life shows (you know... the old guy, Marlin Perkins would narrate while "Jim" got the crap kicked out of him by stuff in Africa.) run through my head where the gazelle walks to the edge of the water and is attacked suddenly by a croc or something like that.

[Fivestring63]

Would this fall under "39-11-614. Protection of property. " i.e. money in this case??

[molonlabetn]

Would this fall under "39-11-614. Protection of property. " i.e. money in this case??

Yes, until the BG turned back around wielding a weapon... then the money had nothing to do with it. It was self-defense.

[Guest db99wj]

I might be in the minority here, but it sounds like this guy made a really dumb move. The bad guy was walking away and the good guy gets out of his car to pursue. First he risked getting himself hurt or killed when he should have just driven away and called the cops. Second he risked getting charged with assault or murder by pursuing the guy, essentially creating a new situation after the first situation had ended. The time to pull the gun would have been when he was actually being robbed.

Go here, another thread, http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10593, the video report says that the BG put the gun to wifes head, guy got out of car, BG pointed gun at man, man shoots him in head.

[BryanP]

Marlin Perkins would narrate while "Jim" got the crap kicked out of him by stuff in Africa

"Today my assistant Jim will attempt to circumcise a water buffalo ..."

[Magiccarpetrides]

Either way good shot! Too bad the bastard didnt die. Since he didnt shoot the guy in the back regardless of story kudo's to him.

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

Go here, another thread, http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10593, the video report says that the BG put the gun to wifes head, guy got out of car, BG pointed gun at man, man shoots him in head.

Well that is a totally different story from the one in this thread. In this case he probably did the right thing. But don't judge my response to the original story based on a different version of the story.

Referring to the story as worded in the beginning of this thread, and my subsequent response, I never said the guy didn't have a right to protect this property. But the problem here is that none of us are the prosecutor. We don't have the luxury of assuming KNOWING that the prosecutor will see it our way. I know this didn't happen in TN, but if it had we don't have the right to pursue according to my instructor in the HCP class just last week. If I understand correctly, we can only use the gun in a defense situation where we've exhausted other options. The HCP permit does not give us police powers. The way the original story is worded, the bad guy was walking away with his back turned to the good guy. He only turned back around because the good guy yelled at him. I don't personally have a problem with what the good guy did, but a prosecutor might and therein lies the problem. Why risk potential injury, jail time, and/or thousands of dollars in legal defense fees over a couple bucks from the ATM when the other option is to hit the gas? Again my entire argument is based on the wording of the story at the beginning of this thread.

Edited August 4, 2008 by AeroEngrSoftDevMBA

[strickj]

where we've exhausted other options

That is incorrect.

In TN you do not have to do anything before you deploy deadly force in a SD situation

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

That is incorrect.

In TN you do not have to do anything before you deploy deadly force in a SD situation

Okay, but the way the first article was worded it was no longer a self defense situation.

[Guest superslacker]

I would, of course, have a problem with the victim shooting the robber in the back as he was escaping... but when the robber turned back around, it was certainly still 'on'.

Why would you have a problem shooting the robber in the back? I understand that this is a bad move from a legal standpoint and it probably would get you thrown in jail and convicted, but personally, if someone robs someone else with a weapon then they deserve to get shot, whether it be in the face or the back. So what if he was escaping, what if he decided to come back? Why not shoot as soon as he turns his head? The article stated that he still had the gun in his hands.

[molonlabetn]

Why would you have a problem shooting the robber in the back? I understand that this is a bad move from a legal standpoint and it probably would get you thrown in jail and convicted, but personally, if someone robs someone else with a weapon then they deserve to get shot, whether it be in the face or the back. So what if he was escaping, what if he decided to come back? Why not shoot as soon as he turns his head? The article stated that he still had the gun in his hands.

For exactly the reason you stated. Legalities... and along with that perception. The last thing 'we' need is for a good shoot to be colored by the media because of where the BG was shot, or from what angle. Besides that, once the BG is actually retreating, the immediate threat to life is gone. This was a good shoot because the BG was no longer retreating when the victim used force (according to the way I read the story, anyways).

[Guest bkelm18]

Okay, but the way the first article was worded it was no longer a self defense situation.

The shooter did not open fire on the BG until he spun back around and pointed the gun in his direction. That's a pretty big self defense situation right there.

[TripleDigitRide]

I wouldn't be surprised if the robbery victim/shooter had this very scenario played out and planned in his head, long before this incident actually took place.

I'm sure most of us have tried to imagine and make a plan of action of what we'd do in any number of similar situations that we may encounter. I know I have. I think we'd be stupid not to. I know your imagination isn't the real thing, but maybe, just maybe, you might be slighlty prepared.

In my opinion, this guy (robbery victim/shooter) let the situation play out perfectly, intentional or not.

Ok....The BG approaches your vehicle with a gun pointed in your face. You know you likely don't have enough time or opportunity to draw your weapon, aim the weapon in his direction, and pull the trigger. Chances are, the BG could have easily pumped 2 or 3 rounds in you before you'd have the chance to raise your weapon above the edge of the window area.

So, what's your next best option? Just what this guy did, IMHO. You calmly (as much as possible in such a situation) hand over your whatever is it the BG is demanding, give the BG a chance to get a bit of distance between himself and yourself, step out of the vehicle, draw a bead on the BG's head, holler something to get the BG's attention, and as soon as he turns around, light his a$$ up. How much more perfect could it be? Of course, this is all assuming you're not interested in shooting the BG in the back.

I know the story stated that the BG turned around and pointed the gun in the direction of the robbery victim/shooter, but I wouldn't be surprised if the later never happened. Does it really matter? You know the BG has a gun, so, him facing in your direction puts your life in danger.

Dunno, maybe it's a Tinfoil Hat situation, but it could happen.

[memphismason]

Ok, say the BG is walking away, You yell out "Hey ass hat, you forgot this money"...when he turns around, you empty your "clip" gangsta style.....I am just saying..

Just a joke fellas, don't keill me. Although I am sure this has happened before.

[Guest db99wj]

Go here, another thread, http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10593, the video report says that the BG put the gun to wifes head, guy got out of car, BG pointed gun at man, man shoots him in head.

Well that is a totally different story from the one in this thread. In this case he probably did the right thing. But don't judge my response to the original story based on a different version of the story.

Referring to the story as worded in the beginning of this thread, and my subsequent response, I never said the guy didn't have a right to protect this property. But the problem here is that none of us are the prosecutor. We don't have the luxury of assuming KNOWING that the prosecutor will see it our way. I know this didn't happen in TN, but if it had we don't have the right to pursue according to my instructor in the HCP class just last week. If I understand correctly, we can only use the gun in a defense situation where we've exhausted other options. The HCP permit does not give us police powers. The way the original story is worded, the bad guy was walking away with his back turned to the good guy. He only turned back around because the good guy yelled at him. I don't personally have a problem with what the good guy did, but a prosecutor might and therein lies the problem. Why risk potential injury, jail time, and/or thousands of dollars in legal defense fees over a couple bucks from the ATM when the other option is to hit the gas? Again my entire argument is based on the wording of the story at the beginning of this thread.

Ok, I was just pointing out additional information that is available about this story. I understand the two stories somewhat contradict each other in their details, and never did I question or judge your response. So you you can take my post just as it is, additional information about the subject.

[Guest Mugster]

Every time I see an ATM machine I can't help but think "Watering hole".

Then those old "Mutual of Omaha" old wild life shows (you know... the old guy, Marlin Perkins would narrate while "Jim" got the crap kicked out of him by stuff in Africa.) run through my head where the gazelle walks to the edge of the water and is attacked suddenly by a croc or something like that.

I used to love that show. "Yup, its a dangerous animal. I'm staying here in the showroom but, Jim will hop in there and wrestle that thing out."

If i could find a DVD i'd buy it.

[Oh Shoot]

Stan Brock was the guy doing most of the dangerous work for years on Wild Kingdom, while Marlin Perkins "stood in the background".

Stan, you know, runs the Remote Area Medical relief organization, last I heard, lives in Knoxville in some former schoolhouse, at least at last report without heat or electricity! By choice.

Interesting guy.

The Medical org was featured on 60 minutes not long ago where they did a weekend stint in Knoxville, treated many hundreds of folks for free.

(I trust this is now sufficiently off-topic!)

- OS

Edited August 5, 2008 by OhShoot

[DaveS]

Dude might want to get a lawyer!

WD