TN AG: “guns-in-parking-lots� law does not forbid employers from firing employees

[RobertNashville]

Well folks, in case you hadn't already figured it out; the recently passed and Haslam signed "guns in trunks bill" is a worthless piece of crap and Tennesse's own Attorney General has said so (with a little embellishment from me).

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/may/29/tennessee-gun-parking-lot-company-attorney-general/

 

 

 

NASHVILLE — Tennessee’s new “guns-in-parking-lots” law does not forbid employers from firing employees — including handgun-carry permit holders — who bring a gun onto company parking lots in violation of company policy, state Attorney General Robert E. Cooper said in an advisory opinion Wednesday.

 

The law, which goes into affect July 1, “only decriminalizes the carrying and storage of firearms and firearm ammunition in a permit holder’s privately owned motor vehicles in public and private parking areas” under the circumstances defined in the law but it “does not address and thus has no impact on the employment relationship between an employer and an employee,” the opinion says.

 

I find this a very odd :rolleyes: turn of events given that I had personal conversations with Senator Jim Tracy and Senator Ron Ramsey who ASSURED me that such was not the case.  

Edited May 29, 2013 by RobertNashville

[JGunner]

I figured this would be the case ... 

 

At the least it is a very small step in the right direction ... I see this as the government kind of getting out of the way which is the way it needs to be.  If you have a gun in your car in a parking lot it will no longer be a legal issue.  It will be between you and the property owner / employer.  If they find you have a gun, they can ask you to leave or fire you or whatever.  But before the parking lot bill, in addition to losing your job you could also be charged for carrying past a sign.  As I understand it, after July 1 you can no longer be charged.

 

So does anyone know, does this also apply to school property for school employees?  Or are schools exempt from the new parking lot bill? (AFAIK school employees could already leave a weapon locked in the car if it was unloaded, and ammo separate from gun).

[mikegideon]

Well folks, in case you hadn't already figured it out; the recently passed and Haslam signed "guns in trunks bill" is a worthless piece of crap and Tennesse's own Attorney General has said so (with a little embellishment from me).

 

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/may/29/tennessee-gun-parking-lot-company-attorney-general/

 

 

 

I find this a very odd :rolleyes: turn of events given that I had personal conversations with Senator Jim Tracy and Senator Ron Ramsey who ASSURED me that such was not the case.  

 

I don't know how you missed it. We flogged it as hard as homosexuals in the boy scouts. :)

[RobertNashville]

I don't know how you missed it. We flogged it as hard as homosexuals in the boy scouts. :)

I just can't believe that two Republican politicians lied to my face (well, to my ear anyway)...I mean; if I can't trust a politician to tell me the truth then what is the country coming to???  These guys even wrote a letter to say why they passed the law and what it should do (even though they didn't want to put that IN the bill for some unknown reason). ;)

[Volzfan]

All of the shortcomings of this useless bill were well documented in the many TFA alerts that I'm subscribed to. I would hope that in the next session it can be amended to a better bill.

[itchytriggerfinger]

I don't know how you missed it. We flogged it as hard as homosexuals in the boy scouts. :)

 

What??!?!  They are letting homos in the scouts?

[mikegideon]

What??!?!  They are letting homos in the scouts?

 

Yep. And there were two politicians caught in a lie. :)

[itchytriggerfinger]

Yep. And there were two politicians caught in a lie. :)

 

Well crap.  If we're at the point we can't trust our politicians anymore then I'm moving to Mexico.   :hat:

[mikegideon]

Well crap.  If we're at the point we can't trust our politicians anymore then I'm moving to Mexico.   :hat:

 

Good idea. All their guns come from the US. I heard that from Barack Obama, who never lies.

[RobertNashville]

All of the shortcomings of this useless bill were well documented in the many TFA alerts that I'm subscribed to. I would hope that in the next session it can be amended to a better bill.

Oh but haven't you heard? Our illustrious governor has already said that he sees no need for any more firearm legislation. ;)

[Garufa]

Oh but haven't you heard? Our illustrious governor has already said that he sees no need for any more firearm legislation. ;)

 

But does he really mean it?  Never heard him to be emphatic about anything.

 

I think he was born a Senator.

[Oh Shoot]

....

So does anyone know, does this also apply to school property for school employees?  Or are schools exempt from the new parking lot bill? (AFAIK school employees could already leave a weapon locked in the car if it was unloaded, and ammo separate from gun).

 

Law applies to schools also. Permit holding faculty, staff, and students may keep their loaded heaters in vehicle, under terms of the statute.

 

But unless case law proves otherwise, they can be fired or expelled for it too. Just as they could under the already existing statute.

 

I thought everybody understood that to still be the situation. There is no mention in the statute of any particular behavior required by employers whatsoever, only a couple of free passes on liability.

 

- OS

Edited May 29, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RobertNashville]

But does he really mean it?  Never heard him to be emphatic about anything.

 

I think he was born a Senator.

 

If you can figure out what a politician really means then perhaps you can help me figure it out some day! :)

[JGunner]

Law applies to schools also. Permit holding faculty, staff, and students may keep their loaded heaters in vehicle, under terms of the statute.
 
But unless case law proves otherwise, they can be fired or expelled for it too. Just as they could under the already existing statute.
 
I thought everybody understood that to still be the situation. There is no mention in the statute of any particular behavior required by employers whatsoever, only a couple of free passes on liability.
 
- OS

Thanks OS, I realize you can still be fired for having a weapon in your car on campus (or if your face looks funny, or if they just wanna fire somone that day, or if you refuse to let them search your vehicle). I also realize one can be fired for no reason at all. I'm just glad there won't be legal repercussions in addition to losing a job. An individual could find another job easier than finding another job and dealing with a legal battle. (Although I suppose the employer could also bring a lawsuit against you ... since anyone can sue for just about anything it seems these days).

[Ted S.]

Have to love it.

 

A lot of Employers have policies granting them the right to search your vehicle at their will, and you are liable for anything withing your vehicle that is against company policy. Funny, these same employers also have a 'park at your own risk' like policy, which means even though they can search your vehicle at their will, they are not liable for anything that happens when you park in their parking lot.

 

These policies seems like a way for companies to get out of a lot of stuff, as well as another way they can hold your job over your head.

 

Made me hate driving to work when I did work for companies like this even though I would never bring any of the 'forbidden items'.

[DaveS]

I seen this coming a long time ago. I never thought from the get go that the state could force a property owner or employer to let you to have a gun on their property if they didn't want to. I felt it would at least pass though, and then allowing employers to allow it or not.

 

So this whole thing was a waste of time and money!

 

Dave S

[JRWnTN]

Remember, these state legislators are the same liars and/or idiots that want the exclusive right to nominate candidates for  U.S. Senate.  Does anyone think that on this issue they will suddenly have a revelation of common sense?

[LagerHead]

Remember, these state legislators are the same liars and/or idiots that want the exclusive right to nominate candidates for  U.S. Senate.  Does anyone think that on this issue they will suddenly have a revelation of common sense?

 

They are SUPPOSED to have that right. Popular election of Senators is why we have no states' rights any more. The 17th Amendment needs to be abolished yesterday.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I think I said all along that the law would change nothing and that is the case. What this law has done is cost the taxpayers to have it passed in order to change nothing. It is going to cost millions of dollars in legal battles because every person who gets fired now is going to use this as the reason why. The employee is going find a pro bono attorney to sue, the employer is going to spend a ton of money defending it and in the end nothing is going to change. And who gets to pay that bill? The rest of us who will see increased prices on those goods. Not to mention the fact it will be clogging the legal system with frivolous lawsuits.

 

I will say there are probably a lot more companies that are upset with gun owners that there were before. So now you have employers looking to fire those who forced this upon them. Had you just kept your mouth shut things would have been better.

 

Before, you could be fired for having a gun against your employer's policy and now? You can still be fired for violating company policy.

Before, the odds of being arrested for violating a company policy was zero and that is just like it is now.

So what has changed? Nothing, except there was a lot of money wasted legislating this and a lot of pissed off employers looking to fire ANY gun owner.

 

If you think the legislators are going to pass a law forcing an employer to keep an employee after they violated company policy you are crazy. An employer should be able to fire anyone for violating company policy. 

[thundersnow]

They are SUPPOSED to have that right. Popular election of Senators is why we have no states' rights any more. The 17th Amendment needs to be abolished yesterday.

+1for this!

[Worriedman]

So what has changed? Nothing, except there was a lot of money wasted legislating this and a lot of pissed off employers looking to fire ANY gun owner.

 

 

 

As hard as it is to find employees who can pass a drug test and will actually work, I suspect whether a person owns a gun is of minor concern to most employers.

19 States have this law, and just like any other provision that deals with firearms, it has caused not one bit of problem for employers in any of those States.

[RobertNashville]

I think I said all along that the law would change nothing and that is the case. What this law has done is cost the taxpayers to have it passed in order to change nothing. It is going to cost millions of dollars in legal battles because every person who gets fired now is going to use this as the reason why. The employee is going find a pro bono attorney to sue, the employer is going to spend a ton of money defending it and in the end nothing is going to change. And who gets to pay that bill? The rest of us who will see increased prices on those goods. Not to mention the fact it will be clogging the legal system with frivolous lawsuits.

 

I will say there are probably a lot more companies that are upset with gun owners that there were before. So now you have employers looking to fire those who forced this upon them. Had you just kept your mouth shut things would have been better.

 

Before, you could be fired for having a gun against your employer's policy and now? You can still be fired for violating company policy.

Before, the odds of being arrested for violating a company policy was zero and that is just like it is now.

So what has changed? Nothing, except there was a lot of money wasted legislating this and a lot of pissed off employers looking to fire ANY gun owner.

 

If you think the legislators are going to pass a law forcing an employer to keep an employee after they violated company policy you are crazy. An employer should be able to fire anyone for violating company policy. 

You are overlooking a couple of points.

 

Yes, an employer can fire you for virtually any reason or no reason. However, it matters to an person's UIB if he is fired for cause or not.

 

This law does take away the ability of an employer to press criminal charges against you for carrying on a "posted property"; while I don't know if it's EVER happened at least it can't happen now.

 

It also negates the threat of criminal charges for having a firearm in your vehicle while parked in "posted" parking lots at places like shopping malls, etc.

 

We'll get a good parking lot law eventually; similar to those that some 19 other states already have...we'll just have to wait until we get a governor and legislative leadership with some balls.

Edited May 30, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Oh Shoot]

I think I said all along that the law would change nothing and that is the case.

 

Changing possession in vehicle on school property from a felony to legal behavior seems most significant part to me.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if some case law might come from TN college campus at some point too -- dunno about the employment part, but I'm not so sure at all it's going to be okay to expel a student for complying with state law, and especially one that takes funds from the state in the first place.

 

- OS

Edited May 30, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[JGunner]

You are overlooking a couple of points.

Yes, an employer can fire you for virtually any reason or no reason. However, it matters to an person's UIB if he is fired for cause or not.

This law does take away the ability of an employer to press criminal charges against you for carrying on a "posted property"; while I don't know if it's EVER happened at least it can't happen now.

It also negates the threat of criminal charges for having a firearm in your vehicle while parked in "posted" parking lots at places like shopping malls, etc.

We'll get a good parking lot law eventually; similar to those that some 19 other states already have...we'll just have to wait until we get a governor and legislative leadership with some balls.

Yes Robert, I agree with your points. (And OS).

As a faculty member even keeping a firearm in my car was simply out of the question previously because it was illegal (with a loaded firearm anyway). At the very least with this new law, I can keep a loaded firearm in my vehicle. I *might* be willing to risk a job over policy, that's a question I will have to answer for myself, and I won't post my decision on a public forum. I can guarantee that I was never willing to risk prosecution before this law takes effect. Edited May 30, 2013 by JGunner

[BryanP]

...we'll just have to wait until we get a governor and legislative leadership with some balls.

 

Yeah, good luck with that.  We haven't had one in how long?