Troubling news for the Trayvon Martin camp

[knewcomb]

Which is better, 9mm or .45?

.40

[Ted S.]

Never liked how vague 'facts' can be presented about an event for two sides to have at it and attempt to fill in all of the missing information about the events to fit their logic/arguments. Kinda like politics.

 

I didn't witness the event, and all of the information I get from relating to the incident is from second-hand and third hand sources. The first hand sources leave a lot to be desired. Oh well. Sad that a person is killed in a questionable manner with very little evidence to prove beyond a doubt what actually happened only to give people something to form conspiracy theories about; like the JFK assassination, Marylin Monroe death, Bigfoot/yeti, shadow people and aliens.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Ted S.

[Sam1]

Never liked how vague 'facts' can be presented about an event for two sides to have at it and attempt to fill in all of the missing information about the events to fit their logic/arguments. Kinda like politics.

 

I didn't witness the event, and all of the information I get from relating to the incident is from second-hand and third hand sources. The first hand sources leave a lot to be desired. Oh well. Sad that a person is killed in a questionable manner with very little evidence to prove beyond a doubt what actually happened only to give people something to form conspiracy theories about; like the JFK assassination, Marylin Monroe death, Bigfoot/yeti, shadow people and aliens.

 

There's a website that is publishing all of the court docs online, according to the actual files, TM may have hid and tried to ambush GZ.  Obviously that would never be published in the media though cause it goes against their cause.

[RobertNashville]

.40

40 S&W is for people who want 10MM but are afraid of it. ;)

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

I'm convinced that y'all just like to argue :)

Which is better, 9mm or .45?

No love for us .40 guys huh!?

Ill throw a couple wrenches in the gears...

AR or Ak?

Glock or 1911?

As far as Skittles are concerned, Im all for some Reeces Peices

[RobertNashville]

No love for us .40 guys huh!? NOPE...NONE AT ALL :)

Ill throw a couple wrenches in the gears...

AR or Ak? NEITHER...SCAR

Glock or 1911? WHY EITHER OR - can't I have and love both???

As far as Skittles are concerned, Im all for some Reeces Peices I ABSOLUTELY AGREE

Edited May 27, 2013 by RobertNashville

[knewcomb]

They got those new "dark" skittles out now

[Ted S.]

 

Glock or 1911? WHY EITHER OR - can't I have and love both???

 

 

What if Glock made a 1911?!?

[RobertNashville]

What if Glock made a 1911?!?

Wow...that would be worse than the BSA allowing gay boys into scouting. ;)

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65894-boy-scouts-allow-gays/

 

The most important question is, should a person carry openly or concealed?

 

Or...

 

Should "real" Americans buy only an "American" car made in Mexico or a "foreign" car made in Smyrna Tennessee?

 

ROTFLMAO

Edited May 27, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Ted S.]

:tinfoil: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest nra37922]

.40

 

 

40 S&W is for people who want 10MM but are afraid of it. ;)

 

 

No love for us .40 guys huh!?

Ill throw a couple wrenches in the gears...

AR or Ak?

Glock or 1911?

As far as Skittles are concerned, Im all for some Reeces Peices

 

 

 

No love for us .40 guys huh!? NOPE...NONE AT ALL :)

Ill throw a couple wrenches in the gears...

AR or Ak? NEITHER...SCAR

Glock or 1911? WHY EITHER OR - can't I have and love both???

As far as Skittles are concerned, Im all for some Reeces Peices I ABSOLUTELY AGREE

 

 

 

What if Glock made a 1911?!?

 

 

Wow...that would be worse than the BSA allowing gay boys into scouting. ;)

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/65894-boy-scouts-allow-gays/

 

The most important question is, should a person carry openly or concealed?

 

Or...

 

Should "real" Americans buy only an "American" car made in Mexico or a "foreign" car made in Smyrna Tennessee?

 

ROTFLMAO

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

 

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial.  Talk about having a target painted on ones back.  And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

[Ted S.]

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

 

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial.  Talk about having a target painted on ones back.  And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

 

I think it's more a play on someone noting that folks here just want to argue about something.

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial. Talk about having a target painted on ones back. And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

For the record, I added the skittles comment to keep my post somewhat on topic.

On a serious note, I agree and definatley would not want to be a part of that jury. Especially after a verdict is given. Edited May 27, 2013 by RedLights&Sirens

[DaveS]

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

 

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial.  Talk about having a target painted on ones back.  And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

Kind of wondering that myself. I thought we WERE having a decent adult discussion for once. At least before it went off track.

 

Dave S

[Guest TankerHC]

Had to go check to make sure I read the rules right. Zimmerman was on Neighborhood Watch Patrol. Zimmerman had been through the class. Rule number 8 and what is taught out of the Handbook in those classes.

 

8. NO WEAPONS OF ANY KIND. This includes those who hold Concealed Carry Permits.  (Its in bold an underlined just like that)

 

I have never been in a Neighborhood Watch program, except watching my neighborhood myself. I wont say "It appears" because the handbook specifically states that one of the goals of Neighborhood Watch is to keep weapons out of the equation. Observe and report.

 

However, the Chief of Police in Sanford the day after the investigation concluded that Zimmerman was within his rights as a CCW with their Stand Your Ground law, stepped down because he felt he was impeding the investigation.

 

This was right after Sharpton and Jackson showed up in Sanford to speak to the mother.

 

And right before the Sanford Police decided he had committed a crime after all.

 

One other thing that I had read a while back. Martin and Zimmerman were not alone. Supposedly there were three witnesses, all 3 black, who made statements that supported Zimmerman, but right after the Police decided he had committed a crime, all three (And one more) are now going to testify for the prosecution.

 

 

Ill stick with my prediction. Right or wrong, Zimmerman is going to jail. The non registered odds makers in Vegas and NJ wont even touch it because they say, like the Jodi Arias case, there are way too many variables to make any kind of accurate odds.

 

Of course there is the case of Eliyahu and Avi Werdesheim in Baltimore last year. RIght after Zimmerman shot Martin these two brothers in their mid (And early) 20's,  (Eliyahu is a former Israeli Special Forces soldier) beat up a black kid while on Neighborhood Watch. They were both charged with 2nd Degree Assault, False Imprisonment and carrying a deadly weapon (The deadly weapon was a hand held radio). Eliyahu was found guilty, there were 8 black jury members, and the jury convicted him fairly enough that for the last year that residents of Baltimore are still screaming for Justice for "The teen as he is referred to" and Trayvon".

 

Eliyaho was convicted of second degree assault. They each faced ten years on all 3 charges (Combined), and Eliyahu received 3 years probation on the single charge.

 

This wont happen with Zimmerman, the riots have already been threatened and after LA everyone down there seems to be worried about it.

 

Dont see how Zimmerman can get a fair trial anywhere.

[Guest TankerHC]

One other thing, reading some articles on Neighborhood Watch I came across this on DegenseCarry.com

 

 Just attended a Neighborhood Watch meeting and the deputies there recommended to call them of course if you see any strange vehicles in the neighbors' driveway, but what was surprizing is they expected everyone (mostly women at the meeting) to have a pistol and carry it! They also recommended safety training they offered, but I was surprized at how encouraging they were of CCW, but this is Alabama.

 

 

Also checked with a friend of mine who is LEO here and in MS, SOME (Not all) Departments that support the program feel the same way.

 

Oregon, CA (Of course), New York, CT, and some others I have read, their policies are pretty straight forward, no firearms, no weapons, if you become involved in an altercation, disengage.

 

EDIT:

 

Further reading, in Florida at the time Zimmerman shot Martin, Neighborhood Watch Patrols were allowed to carry firearms. July of last year, the Governor of Florida formed a Task Force to decide if they should pass a Bill to prevent all members of neighborhood watch groups from carrying (In the wake of the TM shooting the previous February). A Fort Myers Crime Prevention officer wants NW Patrols banned from carrying firearms, the Police say they are not trained in Firearms "like the police are". Really? We have a PD here whos Chief was in the news complaining about a year and a half ago that 90% of his officers dont even own personal firearms, he has to make them go to the range and practice and most of them leave their Service guns in their wall lockers when they go home and night, and the NYPD really showed their training last year on several occasions. Not bashing Police, but LOTS of LEO's cant handle a firearms half as well and have never used them in any number of situations of people I know who have never been POLICE. On that, a 15th Circuit Court Judge says no, banning NW Patrols from carring firearms is too restrictive.

 

 

Zimmerman will still go to prison.

Edited May 27, 2013 by TankerHC

[DaveS]

Right or wrong, Zman will be found guilty on something. He has to be! This case has done gained national attention and certain groups of people are demanding justice! I think President Obama is one of them. Wasn't it him that said if he had a son it would be Trayvon?

 

Right, wrong, conspiracy theories or otherwise, Zman opened a can of worms on himself! Now he has to deal with it. As sad as it is....

 

Dave S

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

 

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial.  Talk about having a target painted on ones back.  And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

Just an attempt at a diversion for humor from one who will argue with a rock, sometimes me! :D Not a bad thing.

 

I don't feel sorry for him because it will be the justice system that will have let him down and the politics of race

that has put him there. You saw on the on the television news the extraordinary leaps made to make this guy

white, just to put it in the race game. Since that was done so blatantly, several of those propaganda outlets

should be sued and after he gets out of this political assassination attempt, he should be wealthy.

 

Sure, you can be guilty of being stupid, and sure, the deceased was a victim of his raising and of society, but at

the end of the day that doesn't add up to a guilty plea on a murder charge, whichever degree it is. But it mystifies

me that people might think, based on the news and other sources, that he is guilty of this because of one being

white and one not, or almost white, when that has nothing to do with this shooting, based on the evidence, and

the emotions are left off the table.

 

I wouldn't doubt the racist Attorney General, and Black Panther lover, Holder will go in with all the fury the government

can muster and get Zimmerman on some ridiculous discrimination charge to appease the troublemakers. That

may even happen with the love and sanction of the Republican governor in Florida.

 

There was a thread, a while back, that we had going a good argument about profiling(more specifically, racial

profiling). If this jury finds Zimmerman guilty, it will be one more way to get rid of a very effective tool in the cops'

tool box to solve crime. Then you will have Fahrenheit 451 style of identity. Laugh at that a while. Things will go

downhill faster than they are presently. Of course, I remember some saying they didn't like profiling, but they

had no argument to back it up, other than an emotional one.

[DaveTN]

 

Zimmerman will still go to prison.

 
 

Right or wrong, Zman will be found guilty on something. He has to be! This case has done gained national attention and certain groups of people are demanding justice! I

I think it will be hard to get 12 people to agree on a verdict in this case. I think it will be a hung jury and the drama will start again as the state decides if it will retry the case or not.

[TMF]

I have no worries he will have a fair trial. Casey Anthony had years of drama in the media before she found herself in the courtroom. We all know she is responsible for the death of her daughter, yet the state couldn't provide enough evidence for the jury to find her guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Every juror interview I watched the juror expressed that they believed she was guilty.

So for folks to say that GZ won't get a fair trial is preposterous, and I believe is being said so that if he is convicted folks can call it a miscarriage of justice.

[DaveS]

I have to agree on the race issue. It seems to me that was and still is a big issue in this case. It is not to me, but look who got involved in the case from the get go. Sharpton, Jackson, Obama....says a lot don't it.

 

In my opinion, Zman is guilty of something but not 2nd degree murder. I'm sure Florida has it all figured out. Jessie and Al gave them plenty of ideas I'm sure. Should Zman be punished any further? No. He's being punished for the rest of his life now as it is. He learned his lesson I'm sure.

 

Any punishment given to Zman is going to be based on how many people are standing outside the courthouse holding torches, and how much race is thrown in the jury's face. Remember, that at least half of that jury is going to be black.

 

Dave S

[DaveS]

 
 
 
I think it will be hard to get 12 people to agree on a verdict in this case. I think it will be a hung jury and the drama will start again as the state decides if it will retry the case or not.

I've thought about that myself Dave. You are probably right. I don't see Florida wasting the time or money to retry the case. We'll see...

 

Dave

Edited May 27, 2013 by DaveS

[RobertNashville]

What does any of these posts have to do with this thread?

 

I really feel sorry for the jury when this case does to trial.  Talk about having a target painted on ones back.  And when GZ is found not guilty will the DOJ file criminals charges against him?

Absolutely nothing - it's just a little humor.

 

It also serves as a reminder that talking about the subject of this thread is just as useful as arguing about the "best" caliber for a defensive handgun, whether it should be a Glock or a 1911, whether one should carry open or concealed or any other of a hosts of subjects that have been both beaten to death and to which there really is no "one right answer".

[Guest Charis]

One other thing, reading some articles on Neighborhood Watch I came across this on DegenseCarry.com

 

 Just attended a Neighborhood Watch meeting and the deputies there recommended to call them of course if you see any strange vehicles in the neighbors' driveway, but what was surprizing is they expected everyone (mostly women at the meeting) to have a pistol and carry it! They also recommended safety training they offered, but I was surprized at how encouraging they were of CCW, but this is Alabama.

 

 

Also checked with a friend of mine who is LEO here and in MS, SOME (Not all) Departments that support the program feel the same way.

 

Oregon, CA (Of course), New York, CT, and some others I have read, their policies are pretty straight forward, no firearms, no weapons, if you become involved in an altercation, disengage.

 

EDIT:

 

Further reading, in Florida at the time Zimmerman shot Martin, Neighborhood Watch Patrols were allowed to carry firearms. July of last year, the Governor of Florida formed a Task Force to decide if they should pass a Bill to prevent all members of neighborhood watch groups from carrying (In the wake of the TM shooting the previous February). A Fort Myers Crime Prevention officer wants NW Patrols banned from carrying firearms, the Police say they are not trained in Firearms "like the police are". Really? We have a PD here whos Chief was in the news complaining about a year and a half ago that 90% of his officers dont even own personal firearms, he has to make them go to the range and practice and most of them leave their Service guns in their wall lockers when they go home and night, and the NYPD really showed their training last year on several occasions. Not bashing Police, but LOTS of LEO's cant handle a firearms half as well and have never used them in any number of situations of people I know who have never been POLICE. On that, a 15th Circuit Court Judge says no, banning NW Patrols from carring firearms is too restrictive.

 

 

 

 

Oh good... that is what I kept finding... and I was beginning to think I was losing my mind... thanks for finding that!

 

It's kind of sad that they changed the rules to pretty much exclude anyone that is a legal gun owner with a permit to carry, kind of stupid too, because the next GZ will be just another unnoticed victim, seeing as how he was the lighter of the pair and not worth the press... and it will be entirely NW's fault that their rules demanded that their members have no way of defending themselves.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Charis

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

...

Oregon, CA (Of course), New York, CT, and some others I have read, their policies are pretty straight forward, no firearms, no weapons, if you become involved in an altercation, disengage.

...

Unfortunatley that holds true to almost any situation in Connecticut whether you are NW or not. I was almost arrested in my home state once, my ex wifes brother in law hit her and backed her in to a corner. I got him off of her, called the police and said I wanted to press charges. They said I would be arrested for attacking him if I did. This is one of many reasons I never bothered getting a gun in Comunesticut. Whats the point if Im ganna go to jail for self defense? Screw my home state... the "Constitution State." Edited May 27, 2013 by RedLights&Sirens