Troubling news for the Trayvon Martin camp

[DaveS]

I've listened to this a hundred times. Zman said he was wearing a "gray" hoodie. When and where did he ditch the black hooded raincoat the defense showed him wearing just minutes before his was killed? Just curious as to why that hasn't come up.

 

Dave S

 

Nah...DAVES just wants everyone to agree that he's spoken the final word on the matter and we should all just recognize that. ;)

Nope.....

 

:popcorn:

 

Dave S

[RobertNashville]

Awesome commentary RN! Sorry, I don't watch much TV. Give me a briefing....

But...I get paid awesome money for my "theories"!

 

 

Dave S

 

How much evidence do you need Dave? Look at his face and head. How many blows should he have received before waiting to react?

 

 

 

 

I think we all agree ZMan didn't have the authority to follow him but there is zero evidence that we know of that suggests this happened. Even if he did follow him that doesn't make it ok for Martin to physically attack Zman. 

Evidence doesn't matter...DAVES has his theories which, apparently, he gets paid well for. ROTFLMAO

[RobertNashville]

Y'all tell me this... If Zimmerman was a homo, would you let him be a scout leader? 

Well absolutely not; the only thing worse than a "white-Hispanic" is a "white-Hispanic" gay man.  :)

Edited June 13, 2013 by RobertNashville

[TripleDigitRide]

Y'all tell me this... If Zimmerman was a homo, would you let him be a scout leader? 

:rock:

[RobertNashville]

I've listened to this a hundred times. Zman said he was wearing a "gray" hoodie. When and where did Trayvon ditch the black hooded raincoat the defense showed him wearing just minutes before his was killed? Just curious as to why that hasn't come up.

 

Dave S

Maybe it "hasn't come up" yet because the trial hasn't started???

Edited June 13, 2013 by RobertNashville

[DaveS]

I thought this was a discussion about our opinions on this case. Why and how is this becoming personal? I'm sorry I feel how I do. I'm sorry I gave to  the TM fund. Ya'll give to the Zman fund. I would respect you for that! You know the old saying  "put up or shut up.  Would kinda give ya more right to Bi*** about this case. Ease up dudes... We'll all have to wait to see what the jury says.

 

Until then...Popcorn, Beers and Cheers!!!

 

Later Dudes..(as in # 6)

 

Dave S

Edited June 15, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

Evidence doesn't matter...DAVES has his theories which, apparently, he gets paid well for. ROTFLMAO

.

Edited June 15, 2013 by DaveS

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

I have seen two deaths in which the head wounds bleed very little. One a self inflicted 45acp wound to the side of the head with 2 cups of blood at the most. The next was a 9 story fall in which the mans head hit first. This was unbelievable with no more than a single drop of blood.

I didnt say ALL head injuries bleed alot. I have dinged my head on the corner of an overhead cabinet and had about as much blood loss as shown in the photos. It was a minor cut too. Have to take in to consideration a persons health just as much as the injury itself. Certain meds not just blood thinners themselves can cause the smallest cut to bleed alot.

Again Im not saying Zs injuries are minor and Im not saying he didnt have the right to defend himself. Im just saying a photo of some blood may look dramatic and not really be that bad.

Its like gridlocked traffic as people rubberneck and ooh and ahhh over a fender bender. Just because the hood is pushed in a little dosnt mean its a severe accident. Ive seen plenty of that too.

[TripleDigitRide]

@

TripleDigitRide

 

 

I think it comes down to, did he start it.

 

as in example, you can't start a fight and then use stand your ground defense to shoot someone.

 

I am however trying not to follow this to closely. 

The thing is, it is illegal to start a fight. It is not illegal to "patrol" your neighborhood for possible illegal activity. If you see someone or something that appears suspicious in your neighborhood, it is not illegal to further investigate. Even if Zimmerman happened upon Martin and asked him what he was doing, that is not illegal. If Zimmerman physically assaulted martin first, that would have been illegal. But there is zero proof that happened. As far as I can tell, at least up to this point, there is zero evidence Zimmerman broke any laws. 

 

We have the testimony and bloody pictures of Zimmerman with two cuts to the back of his head and a bloody nose that appears to be swollen to twice it's size. If anyone is insinuating these are self-inflicted injuries, you are seriously grasping at straws.

 

Martin is no longer around to contradict Zimmerman's testimony, and anything anyone thinks he would have said holds zero water. 

 

As far as I am concerned, unless the prosecution has some damaging bombshells up their sleeves, I can't fathom Zimmerman being convicted of murder. If the jury can take all emotion out of the equation and only consider the facts, a murder conviction is not justified, in my humble opinion.

 

Even if Zimmerman is proven to be a full-fledged member of the KKK and/or a convicted murderer in a previous life, that does not mean he murdered Martin. 

[TripleDigitRide]

I thought this was a discussion about our opinions on this case. Why and how is this becoming personal? I'm sorry I feel how I do. I'm sorry I gave to  the TM fund. Ya'll give to the Zman fund. I would respect you for that! You know the old saying  "put up or shut up.  Would kinda give ya more right to Bi*** about this case. Ease up dudes... We'll all have to wait to see what the jury says.

 

Until then...Popcorn, Beers and Cheers!!!

 

Later Dudes..(as in # 6)

 

Dave "the dude" S

After the story and photo you posted with your dog a while back, you'll always be alright with me.  :cool: 

[Erik88]

I thought this was a discussion about our opinions on this case. Why and how is this becoming personal? I'm sorry I feel how I do. I'm sorry I gave to  the TM fund. Ya'll give to the Zman fund. I would respect you for that! You know the old saying  "put up or shut up.  Would kinda give ya more right to Bi*** about this case. Ease up dudes... We'll all have to wait to see what the jury says.

 

 

I personally don't care at all how much money you give to the TM fund. You seem to have some kind of emotional attachment to the case where as I do not. I have no desire to give ZMAN money. I think most of us are just saying the evidence suggests he may be innocent and we won't fall for the racial BS that was initially presented.

 

Since you seem to ignore the questions I've asked you I'm assuming you either refuse to acknowledge the facts or don't believe them. I've you've looked at everything and still feel ZMan is guilty then good for you for sticking to your opinion but it doesn't appear to me that you are keeping an open mind. I think we're all in agreement that there is evidence we don't know about. If Zman is guilty I'm sure the evidence will prove it.

[DaveTN]

 

I think we all agree ZMan didn't have the authority to follow him but there is zero evidence that we know of that suggests this happened. Even if he did follow him that doesn't make it ok for Martin to physically attack Zman. 

You mean zero evidence besides Zimmerman saying it and it being on the 911 call?

[DaveTN]

Yes, he chased TM down....what ever you want to call it. And I'll say for the 50th time...I HOPE HE IS FOUND NOT GUILTY. That will be his justice!!

 

Dave S

I’m confused. You think he’s guilty but a not guilty verdict will be justice?

[RobertNashville]

You mean zero evidence besides Zimmerman saying it and it being on the 911 call?

So what if he followed him!  Is following someone you think may be there to burglarize one of you neighbors illegal?

 

Are all just supposed to cower in our bedrooms when someone suspicious enters our neighborhood?

 

If I see someone in my neighborhood that I think doesn't belong there and is acting suspiciously or looks like he's up to no good (such as perhaps there to either scope the neighborhood or looking for a score right then like we just had in my neighborhood week before last) I'm damn sure going to follow him and try to keep my eye on him and I'm even going to try to get his picture, hopefully with his license plate (yuup...we did that with this guy in my neighborhood) and I'm not going to let him out of my sight, if I can help it, until he either leaves the area or the LEOs get there so they can question him (like what happened to this guy week before last).

 

Ultimately we  don't know for certain what the guy was up to but we do know that he stopped at two different houses, rang the doorbell and tried to pass himself off as an employee of the property manager hired by the homeowner's association (a giveaway was that we don't have a management company or formal homeowner's association). And yes, it was one of our neighborhood watch members that first spotted the guy and got the word out to the rest of us.

 

The primary difference I see between Zimmerman/Martin and the situation our neighborhood had a couple of weeks ago is that our potential bad guy decided to get the hell out of dodge rather than attack one of use and beat our head into the sidewalk.

Edited June 13, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RichardR]

Following a & helping to direct law enforcement officers to intercept a suspicous person is not a criminal act, even suggesting that this is somehow wrong or even remotely inappropriate just shows exactly how "far off the reservation" some of you have gone with regards to this issue.

[DaveS]

I’m confused. You think he’s guilty but a not guilty verdict will be justice?

Let me explain. I think he is guilty. The jury will most likely find him "not guilty". Justice is being served right now. Look at his finances, He's ruined the rest of his life. And, considering the number of "hits" on him, and the fact that he will never be able to walk down main street USA without having to constantly look over his shoulder. If he goes to jail at all, he'll have to be kept out of general population, because someone will kill him! Zman doesn't stand a chance no matter which way this thing goes! I'm for JUSTICE here. That is all...Well, ya'll know my "OPINION".

 

So, even if he is "innocent", he is/will pay dearly and that's unfortunate. And in my honest opinion, I'm afraid that "case law" from this could be used against any one of us in this same situation.

 

Dave

[DaveTN]

Let me explain. I think he is guilty. The jury will most likely find him "not guilty". Justice is being served right now. Look at his finances, He's ruined the rest of his life. And, considering the number of "hits" on him, and the fact that he will never be able to walk down main street USA without having to constantly look over his shoulder. If he goes to jail at all, he'll have to be kept out of general population, because someone will kill him! Zman doesn't stand a chance no matter which way this thing goes! I'm for JUSTICE here. That is all...Well, ya'll know my "OPINION".

 

So, even if he is "innocent", he is/will pay dearly and that's unfortunate. And in my honest opinion, I'm afraid that "case law" from this could be used against any one of us in this same situation.

 

Dave

I think many here are afraid this verdict will somehow compromise their ability to defend themselves; I don’t. Tell me how you think this verdict, either way, would impact you. Do you plan on starting in motion events that lead to a confrontation with an innocent citizen walking down the street?

 

If someone thinks they are going to patrol their neighborhood and engage people walking down the street, or chase them if they run in fear; then yes, you should pay attention to what is happening here regardless of the verdict. That message has already been sent to those that think they can do that; but it doesn’t impact me and never will.

[TMF]

Following a & helping to direct law enforcement officers to intercept a suspicous person is not a criminal act, even suggesting that this is somehow wrong or even remotely inappropriate just shows exactly how "far off the reservation" some of you have gone with regards to this issue.

I don't think so. I'm aware there is a lot we don't know in terms of evidence, and the evidence that has been released thus far is not definitive... none of it. It is my opinion it was Zmans intention to confront a thug and shoot him. It turns out the person he confronted was committing no crime and had a legal right to be where he was. You may disagree as I disagree with you and most people here, but to make it personal by saying I'm either crazy or stupid for having this opinion is the only thing I see as inappropriate.

[DaveTN]

Was Zimmerman open carrying? Could Martin have seen the gun?

 

 

[mikegideon]

Open carry is illegal in Florida

[Lumber_Jack]

Open carry is illegal in Florida

Yes...unless your are on your way to or from hunting fishing or other such field activities.

[DaveS]

Yes...unless your are on your way to or from hunting fishing or other such field activities.

Exactly!

 

Dave S

[Joseg]

Let me explain. I think he is guilty. The jury will most likely find him "not guilty". Justice is being served right now. Look at his finances, He's ruined the rest of his life. And, considering the number of "hits" on him, and the fact that he will never be able to walk down main street USA without having to constantly look over his shoulder. If he goes to jail at all, he'll have to be kept out of general population, because someone will kill him! Zman doesn't stand a chance no matter which way this thing goes! I'm for JUSTICE here. That is all...Well, ya'll know my "OPINION".

 

So, even if he is "innocent", he is/will pay dearly and that's unfortunate. And in my honest opinion, I'm afraid that "case law" from this could be used against any one of us in this same situation.

 

Dave

 

 

Dave, I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong, Justice being served because the man is suffering financially. Really? What if he had a wife and kid, would you be happy that his family is having to go without? He hasn't been convicted of anything, and initially was considered a good shoot by the Police dept until the Peanut Gallery decided to pursue this. Sorry but this went from being just your opinion to being that you are happy he's financially broke and will not be able to see the light of day; that's just plain wrong in my eyes and in a civilized world. What about the TM family and there million dollar lawsuit, so you are happy that they are going to be hood rich now, because they son dropped the ball?

 

I can debate with you all day long and find it entertaining, but that statement just rubbed me the wrong way and lost total respect for you.. 

[DaveS]

I think many here are afraid this verdict will somehow compromise their ability to defend themselves; I don’t. Tell me how you think this verdict, either way, would impact you. Do you plan on starting in motion events that lead to a confrontation with an innocent citizen walking down the street?

 

If someone thinks they are going to patrol their neighborhood and engage people walking down the street, or chase them if they run in fear; then yes, you should pay attention to what is happening here regardless of the verdict. That message has already been sent to those that think they can do that; but it doesn’t impact me and never will.

Oh, it doesn't impact me at all. I don't think this case impacts anyone's desire or ability to defend themselves. What I am afraid of is some yoyo prosecutor using case law to push for charges on a S/D shoot because "it can be done".

 

Absolutely in no way would I put into motion a confrontation with an innocent citizen walking down the street. Zman already did that and we see where this went. It's funny though, how some of the same folks that thought two Ohio cops questioning a man open carrying that wasn't breaking (at the time) any laws was investigated when a citizen complained was wrong, now think it's right for some "cop wanna be" to put a series of events into motion that cost a kid his life, who was doing nothing but walking home. Double standard opinions in my humble opinion.

 

Also, I think this will hurt our NW programs. How many people are going to be afraid now to be the "eyes and ears" of the neighborhood? Whether Zman gets convicted or not matters not to me. However, he set the wheels into motion. Now he has to answer for it. For him to be going to trial on this, someone knows something we don't.....

 

Dave S

Edited June 13, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveS]

Dave, I'm sorry but that is just plain wrong, Justice being served because the man is suffering financially. Really? What if he had a wife and kid, would you be happy that his family is having to go without? He hasn't been convicted of anything, and initially was considered a good shoot by the Police dept until the Peanut Gallery decided to pursue this. Sorry but this went from being just your opinion to being that you are happy he's financially broke and will not be able to see the light of day; that's just plain wrong in my eyes and in a civilized world. What about the TM family and there million dollar lawsuit, so you are happy that they are going to be hood rich now, because they son dropped the ball?

 

I can debate with you all day long and find it entertaining, but that statement just rubbed me the wrong way and lost total respect for you.. 

Where did I say I was Happy? And yes it's PLAIN WRONG, because he will never live a normal life again!

He does have a wife. And she's in trouble for LYING to the Judge. Pity? Really?

We don't know where this would be if the "peanut gallery" had stayed out. However, the COMMUNITY wanted justice in this matter.

So the MEDIA says. Because you know only what I know, and we both heard it on the NEWS...there you have it!

 

Dave S