Troubling news for the Trayvon Martin camp

[Randall53]

your correct......and if Martin had gone on to the house he was staying at rather than jump Zimmermann, we wouldn't be talking it either. many times a person changes their mind about the road to take home and their life is forever changed.

[KKing]

It doesn't matter what either of them were before that night or what they aspired to be. I'll maintain that if the "watch captain“ had let the real cops do their job that night we wouldn't be talking abouth this.

You're right, he'd probably be a vegetable and Trayvon would be a hero for stopping "profiling" by the "white guy"

[BigK]

It doesn't matter what either of them were before that night or what they aspired to be. I'll maintain that if the "watch captain“ had let the real cops do their job that night we wouldn't be talking abouth this.

Maybe Zimmerman WAS being a busy-body and shouldn't have gotten involved. Maybe he shouldn't have followed Martin to see where he went. Maybe he shouldn't have confronted him and/or asked him what he was up to.

BUT, none of that is illegal, none of that warrants being physically assaulted, and none of that justifies a murder charge. In far too many cases, by the time the cops show up to a non-emergency call like this started out as the bad guy is long gone.

All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Well Zimmerman may not be an angel, but I think he was doing the right thing by keeping a suspicious looking person in sight so he could report back to the cops.

[Links2k]

You're right, he'd probably be a vegetable and Trayvon would be a hero for stopping "profiling" by the "white guy"

Whatever works.

[Links2k]

[qbecauseuote name="BigK" post="975140" timestamp="1369447504"]Maybe Zimmerman WAS being a busy-body and shouldn't have gotten involved. Maybe he shouldn't have followed Martin to see where he went. Maybe he shouldn't have confronted him and/or asked him what he was up to.
BUT, none of that is illegal, none of that warrants being physically assaulted, and none of that justifies a murder charge. In far too many cases, by the time the cops show up to a non-emergency call like this started out as the bad guy is long gone.
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Well Zimmerman may not be an angel, but I think he was doing the right thing by keeping a suspicious looking person in sight so he could report back to the cops.[/quote]


Even if Zimmermann gets off I'll still be satisfied. He has made a hard bed for himself because he wanted to play cop. "Watch Captain", ha! Edited May 25, 2013 by LINKS2K

[jgradyc]

There was a witness who said he say a man in red on the ground getting beat by another man. Zimmerman was wearing red. Unless this witness changes his story, I don't see how a jury could find Zimmerman guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt."

 

Also, there's no way an out of shape Zimmerman could have run down a 17 year old high school athlete. The kid pretty much had to come back.

 

Regardless, since I won't be on the jury, the real takeaway for me is "never let your guard down."  If Zimmerman had been on high alert, Martin wouldn't have got close enough to punch him.

[RobertNashville]

It doesn't matter what either of them were before that night or what they aspired to be. I'll maintain that if the "watch captain“ had let the real cops do their job that night we wouldn't be talking abouth this.

Hummm...I was under the impression that we have neighborhood watches (encouraged by law enforcement agencies) and that most of us carry precisely because the "cops" are usually not going to be there at the precise moment we need them.  :shrug:

[RobertNashville]

Even if Zimmermann gets off I'll still be satisfied. He has made a hard bed for himself because he wanted to play cop. "Watch Captain", ha!

So....it's just people who try to protect their neighborhoods you have a problem with?

My neighborhood saw a rash of burglaries in 2011 so in 2012, guess what...we formed a neighborhood watch.  Since then, burglaries have decreased from two or three a week to about one per month.  I suppose we could have just sat in our homes and let the cops do their job but I for one prefer less burglaries.

Edited May 25, 2013 by RobertNashville

[TMF]

Martin physically assaulted Zimmerman.

Zimmerman is on trial for stopping that assault.

Well if it's that cut and dry and factual this should be a speedy trial after you give your factual testimony as to what exactly happened.

[TripleDigitRide]

Team Zimmermam!

[Troutburger]

FBI ćh cvjgvhq m.ikk
Hhhjhbb a

[DaveS]

So....it's just people who try to protect their neighborhoods you have a problem with?
 

Was this Zimmerman's neighborhood? I must have missed that in my readings. If Trayvon was/is a gun toting "gangsta", where was his gun that night? My experience with "gangsta's", they go no where without their poppers. I seem to remember he didn't have one. If TM was standing his ground in a place he legally was allowed to be, he had to use his hands to defend himself, as he had no gun. That don't sound like much of a thug to me.

 

He was no angel I agree to that. Neither was Zimmerman. If Z man would have stayed in his truck and watch and wait for LEO, things would be much different.

 

Had Zman and Zgirl not lied to a judge about how much money and assets they had for bail, I would have just a little better attitude about the situation he is in. He's lied more than once! He has even came on TV without his lawyers knowledge shooting off his mouth. Doesn't sound like an innocent person in my experience!

 

We all stated in another thread here, what we would do opposed to taking a butt whipp'n if someone closed within "x" amount of feet of us and what their attitude and body language was telling us. None of us will ever know I guess, because one thug in Sanford FL is sticking his face on TV wanting all of us to feel sorry for him and give him money, and the other thug was shot to death while on top of the other.

 

Trayvon? Zimmerman? A whole world of madness....

 

Dave S

[TMF]

Team Zimmermam!

Team Edward!

[DaveS]

FBI ćh cvjgvhq m.ikk
Hhhjhbb a

I can't find my translator...

 

Dave S

[RobertNashville]

Was this Zimmerman's neighborhood? I must have missed that in my readings. If Trayvon was/is a gun toting "gangsta", where was his gun that night? My experience with "gangsta's", they go no where without their poppers. I seem to remember he didn't have one. If TM was standing his ground in a place he legally was allowed to be, he had to use his hands to defend himself, as he had no gun. That don't sound like much of a thug to me.

 

He was no angel I agree to that. Neither was Zimmerman. If Z man would have stayed in his truck and watch and wait for LEO, things would be much different.

 

Had Zman and Zgirl not lied to a judge about how much money and assets they had for bail, I would have just a little better attitude about the situation he is in. He's lied more than once! He has even came on TV without his lawyers knowledge shooting off his mouth. Doesn't sound like an innocent person in my experience!

 

We all stated in another thread here, what we would do opposed to taking a butt whipp'n if someone closed within "x" amount of feet of us and what their attitude and body language was telling us. None of us will ever know I guess, because one thug in Sanford FL is sticking his face on TV wanting all of us to feel sorry for him and give him money, and the other thug was shot to death while on top of the other.

 

Trayvon? Zimmerman? A whole world of madness....

 

Dave S

Is all that you just wrote above is what you think happened then I invite you to go back and take a look at all that was said.

[TMF]

FBI ćh cvjgvhq m.ikk
Hhhjhbb a

Reminds me of when my kid gets ahold of my iPad.

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

I understand where you are coming from. Zman was 250 pounds. Trayvon was a 6'3 140 pound beanpole. You telling me a 140 pounder can over power a 250 pounder? Here some more photos released by the defense. Note the hoodies in a couple of pictures the defense said trayvon was wearing.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2330068/George-Zimmerman-Marijuana-guns-fighting-New-photos-texts-Trayvon-Martins-cell-phone-paint-troubling-picture-slain-teen.html?ICO=most_read_module

Dave S

Im 5'6" 200 lbs and its more fat than muscle. Despite that I am actualy somewhat small looking and my hands are pretty darn small (my HS class ring was too small to fit most of the girls in my class). Point is I lift people upwards of 500lbs on a regular basis and thats not including the weight of the stretcher or the ocasional stairs. Sure my partner gets some of that weight to but it is still a lot between two people.

[DaveS]

Im 5'6" 200 lbs and its more fat than muscle. Despite that I am actualy somewhat small looking and my hands are pretty darn small (my HS class ring was too small to fit most of the girls in my class). Point is I lift people upwards of 500lbs on a regular basis and thats not including the weight of the stretcher or the ocasional stairs. Sure my partner gets some of that weight to but it is still a lot between two people.

Been there done that. I'm retired now. I'm 6' 175. For some reason, maybe age I don't know. I have a really really hard time wrestling a 250 pound hog to the ground, let alone sit on top of one. Maybe Zman didn't fight back, or TM clocked him good enough to knock him down. Too many questions unanswered. We'll see though.

 

Dave

[DaveS]

I'm curious about the pictures the "Z Team" presented recently of TM. One picture the "Z Team" shows TM wearing a dark hoodie with some kind of logo on the front, taken by store cameras in which they contend he was wearing just minutes before the shooting.

 

Then they show a hoodie that is totally a different color and no logo, with a blast hole (no burns that I could see) that they say TM was wearing when he got shot. It must be bad photography and the "Z Team" is grabbing at straws, or skittles in this case.

 

I'll be there, so I'll see first hand what the real deal is!

 

Dave

Edited May 25, 2013 by DaveS

[DaveTN]

This is just conversation, speculation and opinions from all of us.

 

What would I have done? Well I wouldn’t have jumped out of my truck and started following/chasing someone that had committed no crime. The Police were on their way; I would have let them handle it. I don’t get in physical confrontations when I’m armed…. It’s reckless.

 

If I’m in a position of having my head pounded in the pavement its either because I’m a willing participant in a fight where I let my azz overload my mouth, in which case I can’t use a gun to end it and would have to rely on other means. Or, it is an unprovoked attacked in which I could shoot my assailant dead with no remorse or fear of prosecution.

Yes, you could die in a fight; although it is highly unlikely. If you are so worried about that don’t do stupid stuff that puts you in that position. That is your responsibility.

 

Badazzes don’t run. They don’t run from civilians and many don’t even run from the cops. If Martin was the thug badazz many of you are portraying him to be he would have gone heads up against Zimmerman; he would not have run. I think he was probably scared and may have even seen the gun. With fear and adrenalin pumping he reacted by trying to stop the threat.  That’s mere speculation on my part because we can’t ask him; Zimmerman shot him to death.

 

I don’t think Zimmerman was out for blood. I think he was a cop wannabe that thought he was on patrol in the neighborhood. He committed a reckless act that led to the death of a kid that was committing no crime, but “looked suspicious” to Zimmerman.  That is unfortunate for him; it cost him his life.

 

We didn’t hear about this because it was a white guy killing a black kid. We heard about this because the cops wanted to arrest Zimmerman and when DA refused; the community reacted. From day 1 the pro Zimmerman side has been saying that the cops said it was justified. It has been shown time and time again that is just not true; the cops wanted an arrest warrant that night. It is the DA’s discretion on whether or not to file charges. It is the communities right to react when they think he made a mistake. That is what happened and the Governor and the Attorney General decided to replace him; that is their discretion.

 

What do I think is driving this big debate? I think some are afraid that if Zimmerman is found guilty their right to defend them will be compromised. I don’t feel that way; I wouldn’t be in that situation and if I was I would fight and win or take my azz whipping for being stupid; not pull my gun and kill someone.

 

Is this a racist issue? I don’t know. Would Zimmerman have stopped a white kid walking down the street? He said “They always get away” how many times has he done this? Has any of the people that “got away” from him, or been stopped by him come forward?

 

The defense team is reduced to blaming the victim using prior acts that had no bearing on this incident; that is a very dangerous course of action to take when you have someone that has never been arrested vs. someone that has been arrested for violence.  Pot and having a gun? You have to be kidding me. How many of you here have smoked pot and own guns? I would be more worried about that becoming an issue in a self-defense trial than some of the other stuff going on. Did he have these defense attorney’s when he lied about his assets and his wife was arrested? Either his attorneys are incompetent or he outright lied to them also. That won’t help him.

 

Yes, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch program. But the cops always stress that you do not engage; you are eyes and ears only. Why? Because of stuff like this.

 

Zimmerman is hosed no matter what happens. I was appalled when the AG refused to arrest the members of the New Black Panther Party that publically put out a hit on Zimmerman. That is a crime in any state I have been in; maybe it isn’t in Florida. But that is what he has to deal with if he gets off.

 

Do I think he will be convicted? No, I think it will end in a hung jury. This is going to be a tough case to get a jury to agree on.

 

These are simply my opinions on a very high profile case. I believe Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and he deserves a fair trial. I’m sure the trial will be televised and we will get to see the evidence and make our own judgments about the witnesses.

 

 

[TMF]

Do I think he will be convicted? No, I think it will end in a hung jury. This is going to be a tough case to get a jury to agree on.

For second degree murder they must have some sort of evidence that we aren't aware of, otherwise I'd not cast a vote to convict (based on what we know). Manslaughter though, I believe the evidence will point to that and his attorneys will have to make a pretty good argument to get him out of it.

[DaveTN]

For second degree murder they must have some sort of evidence that we aren't aware of, otherwise I'd not cast a vote to convict (based on what we know). Manslaughter though, I believe the evidence will point to that and his attorneys will have to make a pretty good argument to get him out of it.

I don’t know Florida law. A member that said he was an expert of Florida law said they don’t have manslaughter. I don’t know what name or legal description they put on it but I don’t think a reckless act that led to the death of another isn’t covered somewhere.

[DaveS]

This is just conversation, speculation and opinions from all of us.

 

What would I have done? Well I wouldn’t have jumped out of my truck and started following/chasing someone that had committed no crime. The Police were on their way; I would have let them handle it. I don’t get in physical confrontations when I’m armed…. It’s reckless.

 

If I’m in a position of having my head pounded in the pavement its either because I’m a willing participant in a fight where I let my azz overload my mouth, in which case I can’t use a gun to end it and would have to rely on other means. Or, it is an unprovoked attacked in which I could shoot my assailant dead with no remorse or fear of prosecution.

Yes, you could die in a fight; although it is highly unlikely. If you are so worried about that don’t do stupid stuff that puts you in that position. That is your responsibility.

 

Badazzes don’t run. They don’t run from civilians and many don’t even run from the cops. If Martin was the thug badazz many of you are portraying him to be he would have gone heads up against Zimmerman; he would not have run. I think he was probably scared and may have even seen the gun. With fear and adrenalin pumping he reacted by trying to stop the threat.  That’s mere speculation on my part because we can’t ask him; Zimmerman shot him to death.

 

I don’t think Zimmerman was out for blood. I think he was a cop wannabe that thought he was on patrol in the neighborhood. He committed a reckless act that led to the death of a kid that was committing no crime, but “looked suspicious” to Zimmerman.  That is unfortunate for him; it cost him his life.

 

We didn’t hear about this because it was a white guy killing a black kid. We heard about this because the cops wanted to arrest Zimmerman and when DA refused; the community reacted. From day 1 the pro Zimmerman side has been saying that the cops said it was justified. It has been shown time and time again that is just not true; the cops wanted an arrest warrant that night. It is the DA’s discretion on whether or not to file charges. It is the communities right to react when they think he made a mistake. That is what happened and the Governor and the Attorney General decided to replace him; that is their discretion.

 

What do I think is driving this big debate? I think some are afraid that if Zimmerman is found guilty their right to defend them will be compromised. I don’t feel that way; I wouldn’t be in that situation and if I was I would fight and win or take my azz whipping for being stupid; not pull my gun and kill someone.

 

Is this a racist issue? I don’t know. Would Zimmerman have stopped a white kid walking down the street? He said “They always get away” how many times has he done this? Has any of the people that “got away” from him, or been stopped by him come forward?

 

The defense team is reduced to blaming the victim using prior acts that had no bearing on this incident; that is a very dangerous course of action to take when you have someone that has never been arrested vs. someone that has been arrested for violence.  Pot and having a gun? You have to be kidding me. How many of you here have smoked pot and own guns? I would be more worried about that becoming an issue in a self-defense trial than some of the other stuff going on. Did he have these defense attorney’s when he lied about his assets and his wife was arrested? Either his attorneys are incompetent or he outright lied to them also. That won’t help him.

 

Yes, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch program. But the cops always stress that you do not engage; you are eyes and ears only. Why? Because of stuff like this.

 

Zimmerman is hosed no matter what happens. I was appalled when the AG refused to arrest the members of the New Black Panther Party that publically put out a hit on Zimmerman. That is a crime in any state I have been in; maybe it isn’t in Florida. But that is what he has to deal with if he gets off.

 

Do I think he will be convicted? No, I think it will end in a hung jury. This is going to be a tough case to get a jury to agree on.

 

These are simply my opinions on a very high profile case. I believe Zimmerman is innocent until proven guilty and he deserves a fair trial. I’m sure the trial will be televised and we will get to see the evidence and make our own judgments about the witnesses.

Well put Dave!

[Links2k]

Hummm...I was under the impression that we have neighborhood watches (encouraged by law enforcement agencies) and that most of us carry precisely because the "cops" are usually not going to be there at the precise moment we need them. :shrug:

You are correct Robert, but the job of the watchman is only to observe and report . We all know that when people play security a bit too long the lines get blurred and they start believing that they really have authority. Edited May 25, 2013 by LINKS2K

[Links2k]

So....it's just people who try to protect their neighborhoods you have a problem with?
My neighborhood saw a rash of burglaries in 2011 so in 2012, guess what...we formed a neighborhood watch.  Since then, burglaries have decreased from two or three a week to about one per month.  I suppose we could have just sat in our homes and let the cops do their job but I for one prefer less burglaries.

You are smarter than that Robert. You are dumbing down your logic for the approval of the lynch mob. I approve of neighborhood watches. I don't approve of watchmen doing investigations or injecting themselves into the action. Whatever that young man was doing, Zimmermans only responsibility was to observe and report.