Boy Scouts Allow Gays

[Guest 6.8 AR]

What about two girls? :devil:

It's all in the context and behavior.

 

Are you trying to justify more moral relativism by using two girls?

[DaveS]

        
One cannot force their religion on another. I cannot drag someone to heaven with me the same way they cannot drag me to hell with them. I do have a obligation though to tell them tell there is a heaven and a hell, but even if there was no heaven or hell I would still choose the Christian way just for the benefits in this life.

Jesus did hang out with sinners, since everyone is a sinner he had no choice. He did not condone their sin, as he told the woman at the well "go and sin no more".

 How is my post from another thread about Trayvon Martin relavent here? Or relavent to religion?

 

Dave

[RobertNashville]

Couldn't pass gay scout masters the first time. So,let's take it one step at a time.

Step 1 - gay boys

Then after this is accepted we can go to step 2

Step. 2 - gay scout masters

And as long as the "gay scout master" does nothing sexually inappropriate with the troop he is leading what exactly is the problem?

Is sexual misconduct somehow more "sinful" if it's homosexual sexual misconduct rather than heterosexual misconduct?

[Hershmeister]

Good grief - you guys are Still talking about this? - unsubscribe....ahhhh

[daddyo]

Is sexual misconduct somehow more "sinful" if it's homosexual sexual misconduct rather than heterosexual misconduct?

 

Both are equally unacceptable.

[RobertNashville]

If that's the case, then you should have a real problem with the gay lobby, who is infiltrating every aspect of society and demanding that everyone accept them and approve of their behavior, regardless of the beliefs of those they demand acceptance from, and many times labeling those beliefs as bigoted and intolerant, even going so far as to demonize and vilify anyone who doesn't accept their lifestyle. Seems like a glaring double standard to me.

Why is it ok for gays to force what they believe down my throat, but not ok for Christians to speak what they believe to be the truth?

 

And what evidence do you have that the "gay lobby" forced this change on the BSA - do you really think the sureys they conducted, in which I participated, had nothing to do with the voting members' decision?

 

What evidence to you have the the "gay lobby" is demanding the BSA "approve their behavior" or do you see no distinction between tolerance and acceptance?

 

Who said that Christians can't speak what they believe to be the truth?  Seems to me some have been pretty vocal here about speaking their mind; I don't think anyone has banned for stating what they believe.

 

It seems to me that it's the "Christians", in this instance, that are demanding that their beliefs be both accepted and followed.

 

I say again; allowing gay boys into scouts is not an endorsement of homosexuality or of homosexual sex any more than allowing "fat" boys in scouts is an endorsement of gluttony; at least not in any way I can see.

I'd be willing to bet, however, that if the BSA voted to no longer allow "fat" kids into the BSA because they are "un-reptetnt" sinners (committing the sin of gluttony) that a lot of folks here who think it's just horrible that gay boys are now allowed in scouts would be screaming bloody hell about how "intolerant" the BAS was for excluding fat kids.

Edited May 26, 2013 by RobertNashville

[RobertNashville]

Di you expect the "religious" to merely roll over and take it up the derrière, so to speak?

How about they just accept that people don't have to agree with their position???

[Joe357]

And as long as the "gay scout master" does nothing sexually inappropriate with the troop he is leading what exactly is the problem?

Is sexual misconduct somehow more "sinful" if it's homosexual sexual misconduct rather than heterosexual misconduct?

Why don't you ask this question to the kids both boys and girls that were molested or watch the documentaries on this. It will show you what has happened in there lives both physically and mentally.

In my opinion there is to much politically correct attitude in this country and not enough moral behavior.

[RobertNashville]

The churches aren't trying to force laws on everyone like the gay lobby is. You still don't have to go to church, do you?

Show some apples to apples evidence of this, please.

Is pushing for passage of a law "forcing" or is it just the way our government was set up to work?

 

No, no one is forced to go to church but I think there is evidence in this thread that there are some Christians who seem to think that a completely secular institution like the BSA is obligated to follow what they believe are "Christian" principles; frankly I find that a little offensive and un-American.

[BigK]

Why have gay scout masters at all? Why have gay scouts at all?

How about just having scouts - PERIOD?

Why does this group (all gays) insist so strongly on labelling themselves?

[RobertNashville]

Ah, so you would be ok with the majority voting in favor of something that you are against, say, univeral background checks? Or maybe even Barack Obama as President?

 

Mob rule is never a good thing. And I disagree - the gay lobby is fundamentally changing society, step by step, and not in a good way.

I'm in favor of a majority being able to vote for something I am against so long as what they are voting for is not unconstitutional, even when they vote for Obama in 2008 and in 2012; that is not "mob rule, that is how our government was set up to work.

 

Do you only like the way our government was set up to work wen it passed laws you agree with?

 

Do you believe in the first amendment or do you only believe in it when it protects your religion and your speech?

[RobertNashville]

Both are equally unacceptable.

To YOU maybe; but not to me and I suspect, not to most people, either.

 

More importantly, I don't think both are equally unacceptable to God either; at least not the God I know of from the Bible.

[RobertNashville]

Why don't you ask this question to the kids both boys and girls that were molested or watch the documentaries on this. It will show you what has happened in there lives both physically and mentally.

In my opinion there is to much politically correct attitude in this country and not enough moral behavior.

Please tell me what I said in the post you quoted that in any way led you to think I am ambivalent toward pedophilia or child sexual molestation.

 

Or do you just assume that a homosexual scout leader = a child molester?

Edited May 26, 2013 by RobertNashville

[daddyo]

To YOU maybe; but not to me and I suspect, not to most people, either.

 

More importantly, I don't think both are equally unacceptable to God either; at least not the God I know of from the Bible.

 

Do you have biblical evidence to support what you are saying?

[RobertNashville]

Why have gay scout masters at all? Why have gay scouts at all?

How about just having scouts - PERIOD?

Why does this group (all gays) insist so strongly on labelling themselves?

It seems to me that most of the labeling going on is coming from people who aren't gay and who have little or nothing to do with the BSA.  :shrug:

[daddyo]

Or do you just assume that a homosexual scout leader = a child molester?

 

I don't believe anyone here is making that assumption, but why create the opportunity?

[RobertNashville]

Do you have biblical evidence to support what you are saying?

Do you?

 

And do you really want to turn a thread on a gun forum into a deep theological discussion?

 

Do you really think it would be productive for me to use an internet forum to explain nearly 50 years of my personal walk with God and how I arrived at where I am in my belief system?

[RobertNashville]

I don't believe anyone here is making that assumption, but why create the opportunity?

Maybe you haven't been reading the same posts I have; like the one I was responding to.

[daddyo]

Do you?

 

You made the claim that God differentiates between sin. All I was asking was biblical evidence to support it. That's not the same thing as trying to turn this into a theological discussion.

[daddyo]

Maybe you haven't been reading the same posts I have; like the one I was responding to.

 

I didn't see anything in Joesig's post that even remotely suggested an assumption that all homosexuals are child molesters.

[daddyo]

It seems to me that most of the labeling going on is coming from people who aren't gay and who have little or nothing to do with the BSA.  :shrug:

 

Yes, I'll agree that the "bigot" and "homophobe" labels haven't been thrown out, and rightfully so.

[RobertNashville]

You made the claim that God differentiates between sin. All I was asking was biblical evidence to support it. That's not the same thing as trying to turn this into a theological discussion.

You said "both are equally unacceptable"...you made the initial assertion so feel free to present your "biblical evidence" to support it.

 

Otherwise it's just you opinion; not a edict from God.

Edited May 26, 2013 by RobertNashville

[daddyo]

You said "both are equally unacceptable"...you made the initial assertion so feel free to present your "biblical evidence".

 

I made no reference as to what was acceptable or unacceptable to God. You did.

[RobertNashville]

Yes, I'll agree that the "bigot" and "homophobe" labels haven't been thrown out, and rightfully so.

I used to think that the label "homophob" was just something made up by pro-homosexual lobbying groups to disparage those who don't agree with them.

 

However; with this thread I'm beginning to see that their may be some substance underlying the label.

[Moped]

One reason that gays want the Scouts to stop the nonsense, is that when gay boys were found out, whether they came out on their own or were outed by someone else, they were immediately kicked out of scouts.  True, this is a private organization, but it's still discrimination, any way you look at it.  Gays are not looking for their on special rights, they just want to be treated like everyone else, which means they are treated fairly and humanely; not like the pariahs, as they are at times now.

 

As to abuse, I'd say there is by far much more abuse perpetuated on children of both sexes, by straight family members, than by gay men, inside or outside the family.  Sexual child abuse, just like rape, is a crime of power and dominance, that uses sex for that end.   As for BSA and any kind of child abuse, if you are or were an adult affiliated with scouting, either as an Assistant Scout Master, Scout Master, or a Troop Committee Member, you know that  the BSA and Scout Troops practice Two Deep Leadership for meetings, events and outings.  That means there is no one-on-one private interaction between an adult and a Scout.  If a Scout Master needs to talk to a Scout about a private matter, he has to have another adult present or have that meeting in a room where the door is open and in full view of other adults.  If a troop is at camp, and for some reason a Scout Master must go into the shower with a boy, then two adults must go in.  All adults in leadership positions are required to go through a background check EVERY YEAR, as long as they are affiliated with Scouting.  When I was an Assistant Scout Master, when our troop was on an outing, we usually had as many fathers and older brothers with the troop, as we had Scouts.  And most of the Troops we interacted with, were the same way.  I won't say abuse cannot happen, but I will say it's would be damned hard. 

 

Also, I've seen some of you talk about older boys praying on younger boys.  That is also something that would not be easy, since most troops divide their Patrols up by age group.  If they get a whole Cub Scout unit coming into their Troop, that specific group stays together in a Patrol.  That's what happened with my son's Cub Scout unit.  We all went to the same Boy Scout Troop as a new Patrolch elected their own leadership.  On outings, each patrol planned their part of the outing and they worked together as a Patrol, just like how in the Army, squads work together.  Again, I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but I'm saying it would be hard.  Scouting is now set up to protect kids.