Boy Scouts Allow Gays

[Spook]

To me the question is not gay vs. straight. It is the right of a non state supported organization to admit who it pleases. I believe the BSA has caved to PC. Why should the NAACP, KKK, BSA, atheists, left handed plumbers or any other organization be forced (either by court decree or public pressure) to admit those it does not like? And why would someone who does not share those organizations' beliefs want to be there other than to poke a stick in their eye? And why are these organizations sometimes forced to accept people who disagree/hate/dispute them? Unfortunately, I don't have the answers. But it really makes me wonder.

I think the BSA decision affects only scouts, not scout leaders. That said, does any parent really want their seven year old at a BSA camp with a 16 year old gay scout? I, for one, wouldn't take the chance. Just my feeling on the issue.

(But I'm unique.... Just like everyone else.)

[Randall53]

How dare they demand to be treated like normal people?  The nerve of some people!

If they were normal, they wouldn't have to demand anything.

[NoBanStan]

I'm a cub scout leader for my son's pack. If I ever heard any of my boys talking about sex AT ALL I'd be having a chat with their parents. It's got no business in the pack.

[Fourtyfive]

Why not?  They are abusive.....VERBALLY with all the diatribe about gay rights and demanding a tolerant society towards them even though they are one of the most intolerant people on the face of the earth to others, SOCIALLY by parading around 3/4's nekkid with their tongues down each others throats on TV and any where they can get a crowd together or a TV camera on them, they are also morally corrupt.

It's only abusive if you can't handle it.

Morals are one thing , and I DO NOT APPROVE OF GAY MARRAGE , I even sat at a Red Box waiting on two women to pick a movie in my truck the other day , it took 30 min. ; then they looked at each other and smiled and kissed after the movie popped out. I was shocked , totally shocked , but then I thought well , that's their thing. I was turned on for a second then thought , wait that ain't right. They did that in public , what a shocker. Not my call to make , but I have voiced my opinion , like it or not.

[RED333]

In the Bible

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

 

We have allowed our morels to fall to the way side, and we are to blame.

 

One day we will have to answer for this.

[Randall53]

It's in the New Testament also....Romans 1:27

[Oh Shoot]

In the Bible

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

 

We have allowed our morels to fall to the way side, and we are to blame.

 

One day we will have to answer for this.

 

It's in the New Testament also....Romans 1:27

 

To echo Hershmeister's post, neither the BSA nor its parent org purport to be  Christians organizations, so using the Bible would seem to have limited relevancy to the specific issue? And technically, even those prohibitions are not against "being" gay, but rather against the sexual practice involved therein.

 

Meaning, to me it seems absurd to think that people "choose" to be gay. The  simple fact that I as a heterosexual can not and never could "choose" what gives me a boner seems rather an obvious proof of that premise. But as far as the ruling, it is not advocating gay sex during scout activities, any more than in endorses heterosexual sex during them. Only the stance that "being" gay is not a disqualification for membership.

 

Anyway, regarding the Christianity makeup, worldwide, the World Organization of the Scout Movement (WOSM),  by which the BSA was founded and of which is a member, probably has as many if not more non-Christian members as Christian.

 

Indeed, just India and Thailand together have more Scouts than in all the US, and there ain't much of a Christian percentage in either place.

 

- OS

Edited May 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

Good question , how about the leaders ?

 

I don't think a gay man should be a troop leader , sorry.

 

They did not vote on allowing gay leaders, so that's still a no for now.

 

- OS

[Fourtyfive]

They did not vote on allowing gay leaders, so that's still a no for now.
 
- OS

Thank you .

[Fourtyfive]

Scouting will never be the same ...rest of rant removed. Edited May 24, 2013 by Threeeighty

[Mike.357]

too funny. 

 

I did scouts with my oldest grandson for two years.  I don't know that any of the scouts were gay, boy scouts or cubs, and I doubt any of the leaders were.  But there were several ( imho) weirdo's involved in it all.  I just chalked up up to people being what they are and not worrying much about it.  Live and let live, yanno.

 

I did it for my grandson to be involved, met some very nice people.  I never let my true feeling known about anything really.  But them trying to force me to be a churchgoer really ate at me.  I was asked multiple times what church I attended and whenever I actually admitted to not going to church I was told every time that it was okay as long as I had a personal relationship with God.  I just smiled and nodded.  I was there to help my grandson and help the other kids in his den and pack so I ignored all the church stuff.

 

One incident about did me in though.  The entire pack met inside of the church that sponsored his pack to learn about the popcorn sales process.   They actually stood at the altar and pushed popcorn sales.  I sat in a pew listening attentively.  Happened to be wearing a ball cap.  One of the the boy scout adult leader actually came up to me and told me " take that hat off and show some respect while you are in a church" I was dumbfounded.  It was all I could do to not ask the guy if he ever heard the story of Jesus and the money changers.   I was pissed but just nodded and removed my hat.  What a bunch of hypocrite's.  Use the church as a church and I assure you I would have not worn a hat, but to peddle popcorn it did not seem like much of a church at the moment.

 

Anyway...

 

Homosexuals are not pedophiles.  It is damn ignorant to say that they are.   Are gay boy scouts as likely to rape non gay scouts as a hetero scout is likely to rape a girl?  Hell NO!   Neither is a very likely scenario.  Sex has no place in scouting,  it is about teaching boys to become upstanding citizens.   I could care less if a scout or a leader is gay anymore than I care of they are heterosexual,  none of that matters.

 

My grandson was a productive scout, we participated in most events and he earned a wide assortment of badges and awards.  We did camp outs hikes, outings, den and pack meetings.  He lost interest after his second year and never asked to go back for a third so I let it go.  He does football.   

 

Oddly enough, I was a card carrying scout leader for those two years,  and when we did not come back after football season for a third year I was not contacted one time by anyone in his pack to ask where we were.   I am pretty much glad they didn't now. 

[Joe357]

So why even have boy and girl scouts as separate organizations why not just have scouts co-ed. If the boy scouts isn't a religious based organization why does the oath have and I quote 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and my country' I haven't been a scout for over 44 years so maybe this has changed.

I think the devil finally did it. The first thing he did was have people believe he didn't exist. Once he accomplished that, it was easy for him to make people believe GOD doesn't exist.

This country is going to hell

[Fourtyfive]

Oh yeah.....

[TripleDigitRide]

Why not accept gays into scouts, then brainwash them into your way of thinking? I don't think Jesus would have shun the gays.

[RobertNashville]

For some reason, the BSA is convinced I'm an Eagle Scout (I wasn't but they think I am) and I was surveyed on this issue a few months ago as I'm sure many here were.

 

Frankly, I don't have a problem with "gay" boys being allowed in scouts...they were already there anyway.  Improper sexual behavior is improper sexual behavior regardless of what sex or sexes are involved and sexual "anything" really has no place in scouts in any event.

 

Gay boys can benefit from learning how to pitch a tent, use a compass, build a camp fire and tie a knot just like any straight boy can.

 

I think some here are turning this into a "sexual" issue and it simply isn't...not allowing gay boys into scouts simply because they are gay makes about as much sense as not allowing children with red hair into scouts because they have red hair. Many seem to always want to make the leap from "being gay" to "having gay sex" one is simply not interchangeable with the other.

Edited May 24, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Oh Shoot]

... If the boy scouts isn't a religious based organization why does the oath have and I quote 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and my country'

 

"God" is not a religion and all theists do not acknowledge the same one.

 

The 4 million or so scouts in India say the same oath, ya know, and the God of Abraham isn't much in favor there.

 

(I left out the millions of Islamic Scouts, since so many claim both Muslims and Christians actually worship that same God of Abraham).

 

- OS

Edited May 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RobertNashville]

...If the boy scouts isn't a religious based organization why does the oath have and I quote 'On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to GOD and my country'

When you take an oath to "god" you have the god of a specific belief system in mind; when another person takes the same oath, they may be pledging to "god" of an entirely different belief system.

Sure, I'd agree that in the U.S. the "god" being referred to has been assumed to be based in Christianity...and the assumption was probably correct. That does not mean, however, that the BSA is either a "Christian" organization or any kind of religious one...about you can say with certainty is that the BSA at least acknowledges a belief in a supreme being.

 

This country may well be going to Hell but probably not because of anything the BSA does or doesn't do.

[BigK]

There shouldn't have to be an internal vote on whether to allow gays.

I wasn't asked to make a statement of heterosexuality as part of the gruelling onboarding questionnaire.

I'm pretty sure if there was a merit badge for dating girls, I'd have tried to earn one.

I don't even recall a "who digs chicks the most" contest at the Winter Camporee.

We played basketball, built campfires, walked around in the woods hunting snipe, and other cool stuff. Ocassionally somebody might call somebody else a fag if they couldn't climb down out of a tree on their own.

Otherwise, nobody's sexuality was ever called into question. In fact, it would be pretty inappropriate to discuss it all.

[RobertNashville]

...We played basketball, built campfires, walked around in the woods hunting snipe, and other cool stuff.

Did yo ever find any of those snipe?  I never could....we used burlap sacks but I always figured that I just didn't have the right technique.  ;)

[RichardR]

"God" is not a religion and all theists do not acknowledge the same one.

The 4 million or so scouts in India say the same oath, ya know, and the God of Abraham isn't much in favor there.

- OS

We aren't talking about India though.

In this country the vast majority of Scouts, Scout leaders & Scout Troop's host organizations are followers of the Christian faith.

But hey anything to screw with those homophobic religious (generally greedy capitalistic Republican) bigots right? I mean who gives a shit about offending those right-wing clowns, eh am I right comrade? Of course I'm right!

We must first slowly erode the fabric of Traditional American values, before we will be able to successfully surplant them with subversivous Soviet replacements!

[BigK]

Did yo ever find any of those snipe?  I never could....we used burlap sacks but I always figured that I just didn't have the right technique.  ;)

they truly are an elusive critter, huh? only thing I ever learned about hunting snipe is that they apparently fit in that sack you mentioned, otherwise I could have walked right past a dozen of them.

[RobertNashville]

We aren't talking about India though.

In this country the vast majority of Scouts, Scout leaders & Scout Troop's host organizations are followers of the Christian faith.

But hey anything to screw with those homophobic religious (generally greedy capitalistic Republican) bigots right? I mean who gives a #### about offending those right-wing clowns, eh am I right comrade? Of course I'm right!

We must first slowly erode the fabric of Traditional American values, before we will be able to successfully surplant them with subversivous Soviet replacements!

Take two  :chill:  :chill: and come back in the morning...you'll feel much better I promise. :) 

[RobertNashville]

they truly are an elusive critter, huh? only thing I ever learned about hunting snipe is that they apparently fit in that sack you mentioned, otherwise I could have walked right past a dozen of them.

Well...they probably wouldn't taste very good anyway.

 

Just like clay pigeons...you can boil those things for hours on end and they still taste like dirt.  ;)

[Patrick Henry]

The vote allows self admitted homosexuals to become members of the Scouts.  Adult self admitting homosexuals are still not allowed to become leaders.  The original debate was to allow both.  A very large majority of parents, active leaders, and past Scouts voiced their opinion to not change the rules.  The top officials, in part lead by the CEO of AT&T, who is the or a top leader in Scouts actively supported the admission of all homosexuals.  Reportedly this became more of an issue in the past few years because some number of large corporate donors refused to continue supporting the BSA unless they admitted practicing homosexuals.  The homosexual activists have long targeted the BSA to change.  The Canadian Boy Scouts did allow practicing homosexuals and reportedly their membership has shrunk to a very small number.  Canadian parents, the ones who really run the local troops, stopped volunteering, stopped contributing money, and withdrew and/or stopped enrolling their sons.

 

I have had direct communications with the Middle TN Scout leadership and was told the overwhelming Tennesseans were opposed to the change. 

 

With the change the BSA has now communicated to the boys:  That morals can be set by the top echelon, regardless of what the majority of the membership believes,  and that morals change with the culture.  That morals are relative and therefore can change on a whim; rules are not fixed but fluid based on ones perceptions and/or desire for big donors (money).  

 

The BSA went all the way to the Supreme Court to maintain their rules excluding self proclaimed homosexuals a number of years ago and won.  But now they have communicated to the boys be flexible with your morals, your values and beliefs, do not stand up for them.  The BSA has now taken a stance which will over time emasculate the young men. 

 

This vote today by the BSA is part of a incremental strategy: today allow admitted homosexual young men, and in a few years admitted homosexual leaders.

 

Boy Scouts are not Cub Scouts.  Boy Scouts are young men, up to and including age 18.  Boy Scouts are seeking adventure, structure, good male role models, leadership skills, etc...  they are not just in the BSA for fun.  As a Cub Scout much of the time is spent having fun.  In the Boy Scouts much of the time is spent working on skills, leadership and character development, and far less time on fun. 

 

My son is a Boy Scout.  He may sleep in a tent with one or more young men.  I do not feel comfortable with the thought that it will now become more possible in the future that he or another young man as young as 12 or even a Cub Scout could be targeted by older homosexual Scouts.  

 

As a Boy Scout progresses he is assigned leadership roles with Cub Scouts.  I do not feel comfortable with the fact that in the near future self admitting homosexual Boy Scouts ages 16 - 18 will have leadership roles with Cub Scouts.  We all know how raging hormones effect 15 - 18 and older males.  

 

The sexual abuse that has been discovered within the Catholic Church will now be more likely within the BSA.  

 

Sexual abuse is devistating to one's mental health.  This is a known fact.  And it is even worse when it happens to a child or a teenager or young adult.  It is believed to be one of the leading causes of mental health problems, including personality disorders which have severe life long implications to the victim and to those who have relationships with them.  Mental health issues are increasing in our society and have significant financial impacts on business and on society.  Our prisons are filled with individuals with personality disorders; substance abusers have a high incidence of personality disorders, as due abusive people (physical, emotional, verbal abusers).  Mental health problems are a major contributor to broken marriages, and single parent homes.

 

The majority of the BSA top leadership has become emasculated; they have lost their moral vision.  They are focused on funding (money).  They are focused on themselves; their reputations, the kudos they receive for their "leadership" in the BSA, and not what is best for the proper development of boys and young men. 

[Oh Shoot]

We aren't talking about India though.

In this country the vast majority of Scouts, Scout leaders & Scout Troop's host organizations are followers of the Christian faith.

 

Okay, I'll debate within those confines. Christianity says that homosexual sexual acts are sins, but doesn't seem to  being homosexual per se.

 

The Catholic church, 25% of Christianity in the US (and half or more world wide),  even allows gay priests, as long as they, like straight ones, remain celibate.

 

Is the BSA condoning gay sexual acts? Does it condone straight ones?  No to both. Just eliminating a label as cause for exclusion.

 

Don't gay youngsters who want to be Scouts already join? Or will there now be a big influx of swishy girly-boy cross dressers beating down the doors to go get dirty hiking and building campfires and whatnot?

 

- OS

Edited May 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot