East Tn TGO Members Aug 16, 2008 Meet

[Guest Phantom6]

Regardless of what the pics say I am not fat. I am horizontally compensating for being vertically challenged.

Well put. I'm going to have to remember that one.

[Guest grimel]

Well put. I'm going to have to remember that one.

I prefer Garfield's "I'm not overweight, I'm under tall."

[greenego]

I don't want to change the subject of who ass is bigger, I vote for Garfield, but there was some talk of getting some bowling pins for next time. I found some on ebay for $2.00 each. I emailed the seller about shipping. Would cost about $49.00 to ship 10 of them. Brings the cost up but they are in Oregon Anyone interested in going in on this? Or has someone found some locally? The auction ends in 19 days.

[bubbiesdad]

What an afternoon! Always great to see old friends and meet new ones. Those that didn't make it really missed out. Those that did make it missed nothing including the target stands as you can see from the pictures.

BTW here's an update regarding the visit from the Roane County Sheriff's Dept. It was not a noise complaint. The range is in a bowl in the hills so the sound pretty much goes straight up. It is not loud but can certainly be heard. There is a new neighbor in the area that moved in a little shy of 2 months ago. They heard what they thought was "automatic weapons fire" and wanted the Sheriff's Dept. to make sure that we were not a "terrorist training camp."

I ran into a deputy at Butler's Market as I was leaving the range last night and talked to him about the call. I told him that we were just "a bunch of TN gun owners and really don't give a flip about what happened in Atlanta but them damned Ruskies better not try to do here in Tennessee what they wuz a doin' in Georgia." He did a spit take with his Orange Crush and we both had a good belly laugh.

I saw a newspaper in Midtown last night. There was a story on front page about "COWBOY" shooting riling up neighbors. Apparently at least one of the neighbors is part of the guns are evil crowd. Looks like our host may not be getting to have his zoning changed. Somebody needs to tell the neighbor that Little Bo Peep is looking for him.

[Guest Mech48]

Here is the link to the story.

http://www.roanecounty.com/cgi-bin/storyviewnew.cgi?062+NewsLocal.2008822-3325-062-062007.Lead+NewsLocal

[Mike.357]

'Cowboy' shooters rile neighbors

By DAMON LAWRENCE

rclawrence@bellsouth.net

John Sterling said he’s all about being a good neighbor.

Tell that to the folks nearby.

Some of them didn’t like the idea of him getting a special-use permit to allow firearm training on his property at 3997 Sugar Grove Valley Road.

Sterling stated his case for the permit Wednesday evening before the Roane County Board of Zoning Appeals.

Neighbors showed up to argue against it. In the end, the board denied his request by a 4-0 vote.

“ I’m disappointed, but I understand,” Sterling said. “The noise concern was the biggest issue the neighbors had, and I understand. We all move to the country because we want peace and quiet, so I have no dispute with my neighbors over the noise issue.”

Even so, the meeting had some tense moments.

Board chairman Greg Howard allowed all who wished to speak the opportunity to do so.

Kendall Beaty, one of the neighbors, wanted to address Sterling about guns being fired on Sterling’s property.

“I’d like to know, what rapid-fire weapon are you using?” Beaty asked.

Howard told Beaty that he had to address the board and not individuals.

Beaty said the gunfire is unbearable.

“It’s so loud, it’s unbelievable, and it’s every weekend,” Beaty said.

Sterling has a business called the J-Bar-M Ranch.

According to its Web site, the ranch offers numerous cowboy-style recreation that include shooting.

Some of the neighbors said there was so much firing going on at Sterling’s property this past weekend that it sounded like a war was going on.

Sterling said some fathers brought their sons there for bonding.

“Some fellows shoot semi-automatic rifles, and they brought their kids out,” he said. “As kids will do, they wanted to see how many rounds they could squeeze off in a short amount of time.”

“I wish that had not happened,” he added.

Sterling told the board that he has 35 years of firearms experience and credentials that include being a state certified firearms instructor.

“I have about 13 years of law enforcement, including patrol, investigations and SWAT,” he said. “I also was a former military officer.”

Sterling said he wanted the special-use permit so he could train students on a shooting range.

Sterling said he carries $1 million in liability insurance and would use range safety officers.

Those assurances weren’t enough for neighbors.

“The impact zone of one of his ranges is immediately on the other side of the ridge from my house,” neighbor Scott Ball complained.

Ball said he has two children and two dogs he is concerned about.

Even though the board denied the permit, neighbors will still have to put up with the noise of gunfire.

“There’s no prohibition against discharging a firearm,” Sterling said.

“I’m involved in cowboy action shooting,” he added. “I’ll be practicing.”

_______________________________________

What a bunch of bliss ninnies!! wwwaaaaaahhhh

two children and two dogs he is concerned about.

Good lord, there is a huge ass ridge there, bullets are not going over the top.

“I’d like to know, what rapid-fire weapon are you using?” Beaty asked.

Uh, AR's AK's SKS's various assorted semi auto handguns and other rifles.

Sterling said some fathers brought their sons there for bonding.

“Some fellows shoot semi-automatic rifles, and they brought their kids out,” he said. “As kids will do, they wanted to see how many rounds they could squeeze off in a short amount of time.”

Scott it is all your fault. Freaking Corey going through his terrorist and militia training is bringing the wrath of bliss ninnies down on the range.

Some of the neighbors said there was so much firing going on at Sterling’s property this past weekend that it sounded like a war was going on.

:D:D:D:D

Over all I am disappointed that no mention was made of the smoke screen I did my best to throw out there.

How soon can we do this again? LOL

Edited August 22, 2008 by Mike.357

[greenego]

Looks like the board denied his request by a 4-0 vote. Now what? Does this mean he cannot use his property as a training range?

[Guest Mech48]

Looks like the board denied his request by a 4-0 vote. Now what? Does this mean he cannot use his property as a training range?

That is what I am concerned about. Not just for TGO or myself, this can/will (I assume ?) effect Mr. Sterling's ranch/action shoot plans as well . Not to mention the firearms school. It appears from the story that the shoot Saturday was the proverbial "straw that broke the Camel's back". I hope all can be worked out and a good relation with the Sterlins can be kept. Whether TGO can use the property in the future or not.

[Marswolf]

Something not dissimilar happened here in Sullivan County. The guy who owns Guns R Us gun shop bought a piece of property in the county. His now ex-wife (lots of that going around) intended to set up a range for her handgun carry class. But they had to go before the zoning commission to get permission. The county had just passed a stipulation that gun ranges used for commercial purposes had to be located on property zoned commercial. The neighbors complained and the range got shot down - so to speak.

In Tennessee, counties (cities are a different situation) have very little regulatory authority that is not specially granted by the state. Sounds like something needs to be done in Nashville to stop local boards of emperors from infringing on the right of the citizens in the counties in using their own private property.

Maybe the next place I need to be appointed is the zoning board.

[Mike.357]

As long as Mr. Sterling does not start running a business, ( or as long as no one can prove he is running a business) there is not much his neighbors can do.

There is no ordinance that forbids the discharging of firearms in an unincorporated area.

I live in Knox County and I shoot on my property. There is not the first thing really a neighbor can do. Their best hope would be claiming I am disturbing the peace. But if I do my shooting during the day what peace am I disturbing?

Mr. Sterling is breaking no laws by allowing TGO to meet and shoot on his land.

[Marswolf]

I'd be glad to go out as Mr. Sterlings friend and shoot.

If $10 happened to fall on the ground, then so be it.

[Guest Scottech]

Scott it is all your fault. Freaking Corey going through his terrorist and militia training is bringing the wrath of bliss ninnies down on the range.

LMAO Mike.

Corey came upon a sudden realization that shooting is now going to cost him $$$. I doubt if he shoots the AR or AK on rapid again!

I don't quite understand what the whole zoning issue is about. Is the property around Sterling Range connected to the city in any way? That's where I could see a residential zone being uncomfortably close to a shooting range.

I guess I'm ignorant. I don't get it!

Edited August 22, 2008 by Scottech

[Guest Mech48]

I don't quite understand what the whole zoning issue is about. Is the property around Sterling Range connected to the city in any way? That's where I could see a residential zone being uncomfortably close to a shooting range.

I guess I'm ignorant. I don't get it!

The property is well into the county. The issue that swayed the Zoning commission was probably the noise complaints from the two neighbors. They have been quick to shoot down requests lately when faced with resident complaints.

[Guest c.a.s.]

WTH?

Doesn't Sterling Range pre-date the neighbors?

[Guest Phantom6]

The Sterling Range is now closed. I have terminated the lease with John, am in the process of pulling all of the equipment out (unfortunately I have not figured out how to reclaim the gravel and the road I cut back there) and am in the process of arranging other facilities.

Unfortunately John brought this on himself when he decided to open a competing gun school on the property. At first he wanted to use our school's certification and liability insurance policy which I had no problem with as long as he taught under the school's name and lesson plan and paid for that privlidge. I have a relativley well appointed classroom, have built a good solid business that is respected in the community and draws students from as far away a Memphis, south central and south east Ky, North Carolina, Georgia and as far as handgun carry permit students are concerned, about 14 counties around our own. John did not want to pay for the use of our name, our liability or our classroom facilities nor would he agree to follow the established lesson plans that have been so successful for us so I told him that he would have to get his own school certification and liability policy. John decided to do all of it on his own which was no problem for us because our lease gave us complete control of the upper range and his school was really no competition for us. At the last handgun carry permit class about 1/2 of the class was local while the other 1/2 drove at least an hour and a half to get there.

Anyway, since John had no classroom he built a small building on his property to handle that function. One of his neighbors out there saw the construction across from the barn and called the codes enforcement folks that regulate commercial construction who paid John a little visit and told him that he could not use the building as a classroom as it did not meet building code for public occupancy. John also told the inspector of his desire to open a bed and breakfast and showed him the building sites of future cabins and the range which had never been an issue before. The codes guy told him that he would have to get the property rezoned for commercial application if he wanted to do all of that. John applied for the re-zoning permit and though he did not realize it at the time he had stepped into a carfully laid trap set by a neighbor and a former Roane County deputy.

What I had discussed with John when he told me of his plans to get his property rezoned was the fact that we, Austin's Tennessee Firearms School had put a serious dent in the carry permit class income for a certain former Roane County deputy who was now working for Wackenhut Security (the prime D.O.E. security contractor at the nuclear facilities here in Oak Ridge) along with a former Oak Ridge Police officer who is a neighbor of John's. This asshat had even started a rumor last year that a student had been shot on our range hoping to deny us of a range on which to train. After a few well placed phone calls, some strong language and the mention of litigation the rumor mill stopped.

Fast forward to last night's zoning meeting and the most vocal of the complaintants was the Wackenhut buddy (and neighbor of John Sterling) of the competing instructor. He whipped the hysteria with a veritable canoe paddle of stories of worry for his children and dogs and how he lived "right behind the backstop for the range" which is patently untrue. He lives about 400 yds to the west. Never mind the fact that there is a freakin' 110 foot rocky ridge between the west SIDE of the range and his property. Many other inaccuracies were related by this small but vocal group of opponants, many of whom lived more than two miles away from the Sterling property. Everything from massive amounts of shooting from daylight to dark and into the night, shooting early on Sunday mornings, every weekend..... one even said every day and so on. Those of you have trained with us and have come out for our free clinic days on Sundays after the carry permit classes on Saturdays know that is untrue. Now, combine all of this with the fact that John showed up at the zoning commission meeting wholey unprepared with no supporters which even he admits that he could have had from the community if he had only asked, no maps, no surveys, no photos, no satelite images and no range SOP's which I had written for him, no damned plan, in other words, with nothing but his **** in his hand and the results are not a surprise to me.

The TGO group has been shooting out there for a year and we have had larger groups shooting a similar mix of firearms and we have never had a complaint untill John in his nievety let himself get set up in this storm of BS which I firmly believe was perpetrated by a competing carry permit instructor. I say again, the TGO shooters had absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

It may take a couple of weeks or even months but we will have another place lined up but we are working on that and plan to have that done ASAP. Until then we will be shooting at the Norris Watershed range. I expect to see each and every one of y'all up there month after next and hopefully some new faces as well.

Edited August 23, 2008 by Phantom6

[Guest SUNTZU]

Mike, let me know if I can help in any of the setup of a new facility. Be glad to help.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Crappy deal. :-\

Hopefully this paves the way for you guys to have a bigger and better facility.

[Guest Phantom6]

Mike, let me know if I can help in any of the setup of a new facility. Be glad to help.

Thank you sir.

Originally Posted by Verbal Kint

Hopefully this paves the way for you guys to have a bigger and better facility.

That is certainly the plan.

[Guest Scottech]

Phantom. I'll echo what SUNTZU said. Let me know if Corey and I can help in any way. I sincerely believe this is a good thing and it will be bigger and better for all.

[Magiccarpetrides]

Norris is a good range...maybe one of these years I will be able to come to a meet.

[Guest dotsun]

Wow, I wish I could say I was there to help cause all this chaos this month. Ditto on the help available if needed when you secure a new site, Mike.

[towerclimber37]

I am now approximately 168 miles from your shop Mike

I'm closer to oakridge I believe.

If I can do anything to help ya, let me know! as always, you will be my ship to point for any firearm purchases..no matter where I am in the state!

a small way of helping you out...same goes for Julie!

if there's anything else we can do, you need only holler!

[Guest grimel]

The Sterling Range is now closed. I have terminated the lease with John, am in the process of pulling all of the equipment out (unfortunately I have not figured out how to reclaim the gravel and the road I cut back there) and am in the process of arranging other facilities.

If you need my truck, let me know.

[Mike.357]

That whole thing is messed up. Too bad John did not have his ducks in a row.

I drive to OR and Kingsport to shoot, I am sure I can make a trip to the Norris watershed as well.

I echo the previous comments about any help you may need. I can even offer a decent truck to use instead of that pos George drives.

[Guest Phantom6]

Thanks for all the offers of support folks. We'll have things straightened out in no time at all. We are currently in negotiations with an individual that has 100 acres between Oak Ridge and Clinton off Laurel Rd. That would be an ideal spot due to the lay of the land and it's proximity to the classroom. We are still activly seeking alternate locations so if anyone knows of any place please let me know. Keep your fingers crossed.