Morgan County Correctional Complex, Stopped from taking pictures, deleted.

[soapy]

  

 

     So here I go, entering Frozen Head State Park (public road) on a beautiful Thursday morning in the mountains, just before noon. My recently deceased dad lived on that road and I was just wasting time, waiting on my sister to call me and meet. I was in the summer car, with the top down.  Going down the street I began to take pictures of the Tn. Department of Correction, Morgan County Complex. A bit down the road, as I approach the main entrance on my right, a security SUV leaves the entrance and the female driver is looking at me hard as we pass.  I continue on, stopped once or twice, and took some more pictures.  A pickup approaches and pulls up beside me, someone talking on a radio.  He said,  You can't be blocking the road and taking pictures"  before I can answer, he says, "there is a car coming. They are coming to check you out, pull down there and wait."  I said "well ok, I'm good". He looked at me funny, and I repeated, " I'm Good". I don't think he noticed the weapon next to my console, but his truck was much taller than my sports car and he could have. ( There was never anyone behind me when I stopped, so I was prepared to argue that point, but never got the chance.)

So I am almost all the way past the complex now,  and I pull into the last parking area, next to a entrance with guards.  I turn everything off, and put my hands up on the windshield.

          A  few minutes later, a security SUV pulls in behind me and and stops behind me sideways, blocking any exit. At the same time 3 security guards come toward me from the fence, gate area. I've got my hands in the air, and the female officer says, " your alright sir, your alright" 2 or 3 times, as she approaches my door.  She ask me if I was taking pictures, I said yes, she replied, " you can't take pictures of the site, you will have to delete them from your camera while I watch. I said  "I'm sorry, I did not know that you could not take pictures here." ( no signs are posted, so how would you know?) At the same time, before I have a chance to say anything about the weapon, one of the 3 male officers approaches and  says, "He may not be alright, Do You Have a Permit for that gun?" I said "Yes sir, I do, its in my ankle wallet. Is it ok if I open the door and place my feet on the ground.  That way I can retrieve it and you can see what I'm doing." 'Ok" he said.  

While I'm getting my DL and permit out, I tell him I'm in town because my dad passed, he lived down the road etc.

He asked me his name. ( He was the only one that spoke to me other than the  female security.)

I mention my sister lives in Wartburg and he asked her name. when I told him he asked if she was kin to someone he knew.

I said, I don't know . Later I found out the person he asked about was my sisters father in law.

I pass my info to the guard, he hands it to the  female officer, and she goes to her SUV and "checks  me out."

I sat in the car, with the door open, my feet on the ground, and somehow managed to get the camera in delete mode.

the day was bright and I couldn't see the pictures very well. While this is going on, the corrections officer (guard), is talking to me.

 

as best as I can remember this is what he said.

 

We just had an escape on the other side of the state yesterday. So you could be taking pictures of the place to help with an escape.  We also have people coming in here to throw stuff over the fence, that would be easy to do in a convertible like yours.  (Some where in here I asked if I could stand up and stretch and he said ok.)

 BTW thats a nice car.  TY, it ain't mine, belongs to the wife. I don't own nothing. We BS about his 30 years there, where I was from etc, while she checks me out. Somewhere in there the guard and I shook hands.

She finishes up, and they hand me my info back, can't remember who. 

I sat down and handed her the camera and after showing her how to delete pictures, she erased the ones of the complex, while I put my info away. She hands me the camera back,  looks at me and kinda blurts out.  "Sir, Your free to go, enjoy the park.  She thanks me for not giving them any crap about the pictures and the rest agree. ( I guess some people have more balls than me)  She makes me promise I won't take any more pictures of the prison, and tells me where I can take all the pictures I want. I promise.  I thank them for being nice also, ask how far it is to the park, and start getting ready to leave.

One of the guards asked her if she kept my name. No, She says.  The guard says to me "I'm sorry, but I need your DL again.  I pass it to him and he hands it to security.  She goes over to the SUV and copies my name and whatever to a sheet of paper.  I think she handed it back to me, and I put it up again.

I'm preparing to leave. Engine, seat belts, lights...

The guard says to me.

"You should keep that gun a little more concealed while your in here, for your safety and for our safety. ESPECIALLY in a convertible."  "Thank you I will," I said, the officer moved the SUV, everyone turned to leave.

I put the weapon under the passenger seat, and drove out toward the Frozen Head State Park.  I found a spot to park, called the wife, and said ,  your never going to believe this...

I didn't stay long.  When I left, the security SUV followed me from the gate where I was stopped, to the entrance which is about half way by the place.  I moved on...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2013 by soapy

[Erik88]

I don't see how they can legally force you to delete your pictures. 

[Mike.357]

sounds f'd up to me.  

[macville]

I don't see how they can legally force you to delete your pictures. 

 

They can't. But they can ask and make it sound like they can.

[D3vo]

I "don't" have any pictures of the facility taken this past April. :)

[rugerla1]

Wow, that's crazy!

[10-Ring]

I hate to post this just because it is from the ACLU but it is accurate.  I think you could have pressed the issue if you wanted.  Probably saved yourself a lot of time by complying.

 

Know Your Rights: Photographers

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Know Your Rights: Photographers

Taking photographs of things that are plainly visible from public spaces is a constitutional right – and that includes federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police and other government officials carrying out their duties. Unfortunately, there is a widespread, continuing pattern of law enforcement officers ordering people to stop taking photographs from public places, and harassing, detaining and arresting those who fail to comply. Learn more »

>> Know Your Rights: See more essential resources from the ACLU

Your rights as a photographer:

SPECIAL FEATURE

> Article: Law Enforcement Harrassment of Photographers

> Learn More: Filming and Photographing Police

• When in public spaces where you are lawfully present you have the right to photograph anything that is in plain view. That includes pictures of federal buildings, transportation facilities, and police. Such photography is a form of public oversight over the government and is important in a free society.
• When you are on private property, the property owner may set rules about the taking of photographs. If you disobey the property owner's rules, they can order you off their property (and have you arrested for trespassing if you do not comply).
• Police officers may not generally confiscate or demand to view your photographs or video without a warrant. If you are arrested, the contents of your phone may be scrutinized by the police, although their constitutional power to do so remains unsettled. In addition, it is possible that courts may approve the seizure of a camera in some circumstances if police have a reasonable, good-faith belief that it contains evidence of a crime by someone other than the police themselves (it is unsettled whether they still need a warrant to view them).
• Police may not delete your photographs or video under any circumstances.
• Police officers may legitimately order citizens to cease activities that are truly interfering with legitimate law enforcement operations. Professional officers, however, realize that such operations are subject to public scrutiny, including by citizens photographing them.
• Note that the right to photograph does not give you a right to break any other laws. For example, if you are trespassing to take photographs, you may still be charged with trespass.

Edited May 19, 2013 by 10-Ring

[vontar]

I agree with 10-Ring, probably saved yourself some time, but legally they were in the wrong.

 

I love how they profiled the convertible.

[D3vo]

I wonder if we will have to delete this? I was in a minivan. :)

Edited May 19, 2013 by D3vo

[BrasilNuts]

I bet you can do the road view from google maps.

[R_Bert]

I bet you can do the road view from google maps.

 

It certainly shows up in sufficent detail on Google Earth

[Spook]

Let's see.... The law says you can carry a camera and take photos..... But someone calls in and says there's a man with a camera... You get stopped and don't want to delete them.... Are you sure this wasn't in Ohio? Oh, wait....

[JGunner]

When I got done working a cruise ship gig I was standing around at the port of miami and taking photos of the ship I had been on. (waiting for my ride to pick me up). Some security looking guy came up and told me I couldn't take photos there. I didn't press the issue I just said ok and put my camera away.

[monkeylizard]

I wonder if we will have to delete this? I was in a minivan. :)
 

But we had tinted windows, so they couldn't see our cameras.

 

 

 

No, it does not show on Google Street View. They'll take those camera cars out in the boonies, but Morgan Co. off a main highway is too much even for those guys.  :)

Edited May 19, 2013 by monkeylizard

[DaveTN]

Deleting pictures is a non-issue; until you overwrite them or format the card they are still there and easily recovered.

 

 

[RichardR]

In Amerika 2.0 everyone is treated like a criminal.

[DaveTN]

In Amerika 2.0 everyone is treated like a criminal.

Other than the question of whether or not security at a state penal institution can stop you from taking pictures of the facility; it sounds like he was treated with respect.

[RichardR]

Other than the question of whether or not security at a state penal institution can stop you from taking pictures of the facility; it sounds like he was treated with respect.

If you consider being detained, questioned, background checked & having your personal property destroyed as being "treated with respect" than yea I suppose so ...

[bigwakes]

Do correctional officers have any authority over Joe Blow not in prison? I seriously don't know. They have a badge and gun, but does that give them jurisdiction over me? Are they regular officers just assigned to prisons?

[DaveTN]

Do correctional officers have any authority over Joe Blow not in prison? I seriously don't know. They have a badge and gun, but does that give them jurisdiction over me? Are they regular officers just assigned to prisons?

4-3-609.  Exercise of police powers by employees.

  a) Those employees of the department of correction as the commissioner shall designate who have been trained in the use of firearms are vested with the powers and authority of law enforcement officers, including the authority to carry weapons, and may exercise such powers and authority while performing special details and assignments in the course of their duties as authorized by the commissioner. These instances may include the search for and apprehension of escapees, transporting inmates, assisting other law enforcement agencies, and other functions while on duty and under the supervision of the department.

B  (1) Those employees of the department of correction appointed as special agents or as director of internal affairs and who have successfully completed law enforcement training in accordance with internal standards, including firearms training and successful completion of the Tennessee bureau of investigations basic agent training, shall be fully vested and sworn by the commissioner as full-time law enforcement officers. The department's internal standards shall include, at a minimum, forty (40) hours initial training and eight (8) hours annual in-service training in firearms qualification administered by an instructor with certification from the Tennessee Correction Academy's firearms instructor program or from a police firearms instructor training program conducted or sanctioned by the federal bureau of investigation or the National Rifle Association. These agents and director shall have full authority to investigate and enforce the laws of the state and their mission shall focus on matters relative to the department of correction as well as those matters assisting other local, state, and federal agencies. These agents and director shall be so commissioned to carry weapons in the course of their duties and as is consistent with applicable standards for law enforcement personnel.

   (2) Persons employed by the department of correction as internal affairs special agents or as an internal affairs director shall have the full power to administer oaths and take oral and written statements.

c The commissioner shall also establish internal procedures concerning appropriate exercise of the powers and authority vested by this section.

[soapy]

Thank you for the input.

 

Its not like me to argue with authority about something I'm not well versed in.

I felt like I would only have been escalating the situation. 

 

If it ever happens again and If it was something important, I would keep it knowing what I have learned.   

 

I like to birdwatch, I had a monocular around my neck. I threw it into the passenger seat when I 

stood up, and no one seemed to notice. 

Was you Spying on us boy????

 

The guards that came from the gate, I don't remember them having anything but pepper spray and such.

I'm pretty sure the SUV officer had a weapon.

 

I was hoping to find a place in the hills to use as a range.

In the trunk,

I had around 700 rounds of 9mm in an ammo box 

5 mags for a G19

BUG

Trama kit

Bugout bag with survival stuff.

Clothing

Hiking boots.

 

So If I had wanted to help some POS get out of there, I had plenty to throw over the fence

I suppose.

 

I was  in a position where they could have made my day a little longer, had I not cooperated, and it was a day for riding,

not talking.

 

Thanks you for your input and info.

 

Have a good week

 

soapy

Edited May 20, 2013 by soapy

[TripleDigitRide]

Until not too long ago, I made regular deliveries to the Turney Center Industrial Prison. While there were a few who so badly wanted to be a real LEO but likely couldn't cut it, most of them were real nice men and women who truly hated that sh***y job. Even though I disagree with how the OP was treated, after hearing those guards talk about miserable their jobs were, I would have felt real bad by giving them a hard time over some pictures. 

[vontar]

As has been said many times here, one really doesn't win an argument on the side of the road.

 

If you still have your memory card and having overwritten, there is a nice program Get Data back, Best data recovery program I have used.  I have pulled stuff back from hard drives that lost their partitions. 

[Spots]

If you were range hunting in that area you should have got ahold of me. Im not far from there and got plenty of range at my place. I hate when people use their authority to make people comply with things that they have no right to dictate

[Wyldk2]

Sounds like some more people need to test the goon squad out. If you're on a public road and taking pictures, seems to me they should have not made you delete the photos nor treated you like a common criminal or a suspect in a potential crime. They are not police, they are the guards for the criminals the cops bring to justice.

 

Just because they "ask" you to do something, dosen't mean you have to comply. ( this goes for all in Law enforcement), unless they give you an actual order, you do not have to comply.

 

It's still a mostly free country, and last i heard this isn't East Germany during the Iron curtain days.

 

I'm occasionally up that way, next time I'm up there I'll fill you all in on my results( going to use multiple cameras and my GoPro).