Spire point reloading....HELP!

[ArmyBrat61]

OK so I'm in Bass Pro Shop, nearly empty shelves in the reloading area....come to the projectiles and spot what I'm looking for (so I thought)  Sierra Match King 165 gr .308 bullets. I was in a hurry and did not read BTSP  boat tail spire point......get home and open the box.....crap....open lead tips...wanted the FMJ....so I thought I'd give it a go and get my Lee 4 hole turret geared up for .308.......cases sized and cleaned and lubed  check  large rifle primers   check    TAC powder in the hopper     check    go throught the stages and put the pill on case     raise the case into position and the spire point comes out........... flattened. No matter how much I back off the seating die, the soft lead point flattens. I can't get a proper OAL without flattening the point.....and to make matters worse (or funnier) the wife brings me two boxes of 150 gr spire points as a belated anniversary gift..."I saw what you bought a Bass Pro so I found these"   I love this woman.....but what am I to do?  I now have 200 150gr and 100 165gr soft points that I am not sure how to reload without damage. Any suggestions?

Edited May 14, 2013 by ArmyBrat61

[Dolomite_supafly]

Take the seater out and drill a 1/8" hole in the center. I would chuck the seater in the drill and keep the drill bit stationary.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Also, check the seater to make sure it is in the right way. There is a dished side and a flat side.

[ArmyBrat61]

Great idea......I can order another seater if I ruin this one....have to set up the drill press now....thanks Dolomite!

 

 

UPDATE   I took the seating die apart and the metal ram inside the die is two sided...one side flat (for FMJ) and one side hollow (for soft points)  I never would have thought of looking at the internal ram....thanks again Dolomote.....

Edited May 14, 2013 by ArmyBrat61

[Dolomite_supafly]

Been there, done that.

[gregintenn]

Great idea......I can order another seater if I ruin this one....have to set up the drill press now....thanks Dolomite!

 

 

UPDATE   I took the seating die apart and the metal ram inside the die is two sided...one side flat (for FMJ) and one side hollow (for soft points)  I never would have thought of looking at the internal ram....thanks again Dolomote.....

Why wouldn't you seat FMJ bullets with the die set up the same way?

[ArmyBrat61]

Why wouldn't you seat FMJ bullets with the die set up the same way?

Working on pics to answer that......Oh dopey me.......

 

 

 

[url=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/Armybrat1961/media/P5130097_zpse63e2c81.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

 

[url=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/Armybrat1961/media/P5130098_zps86e0cd26.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

[url=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/Armybrat1961/media/P5130099_zps5d7b44fb.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[url=http://s1239.photobucket.com/user/Armybrat1961/media/P5130100_zps787176e6.jpg.html][/URL]

Edited May 14, 2013 by ArmyBrat61

[gregintenn]

I guess you'll have to spell it out for me. I understand why you'd want to seat the lead tipped bullets that way, but why turn it around for FMJ? It seems to me that you'd get less runout on loaded rounds by applying pressure equally around the ogive of the bullet, rather than just pushing against the tip when seating.

[ArmyBrat61]

It seemed to seat smoother when I had the flat surface against the tip...plus it was leaving an indention ring on the cast bullets I was using and on some of the FMJ as well.....Sierra projectiles are/seem to be softer anyway.....I like Barnes and Hornaday better but am having a difficult time finding them in stock.

[RED333]

Experience is something ya get just after ya need it.

Learned me something today, thanks much for posting this ArmyBrat.

[mikegideon]

You don't ever want to use the flat side to seat a bullet. That's not a "feature". It's either right, or backwards.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You don't ever want to use the flat side to seat a bullet. That's not a "feature". It's either right, or backwards.

With most rifle bullets, yes.

 

Some HP bullets, pistol and rifle, can be partially closed by using the tapered side. And on those I use the flat side to prevent them from closing. RCBS has several different kinds of seaters in their 9mm dies because one size definitely does not fit all HP's.

 

I generally make my own seaters to better fit the bullet's ogive profile without touching the nose of the bullet. I use delrin because it is easy to machine and doesn't mar or scratch the bullet. Also, rather than use a thin rod that kind of floats in there I use more of a plug with a hole in the middle of it. This ensures, im my eyes, that the bullet is seated as straight as possible.

 

I can post pictures if someone wants to see how I made the Lee better.

[Luke E.]

"I saw what you bought a Bass Pro so I found these"   I love this woman.....but what am I to do? 

Sounds like you've got a good one!

[mikegideon]

With most rifle bullets, yes.

 

Some HP bullets, pistol and rifle, can be partially closed by using the tapered side. And on those I use the flat side to prevent them from closing. RCBS has several different kinds of seaters in their 9mm dies because one size definitely does not fit all HP's.

 

I generally make my own seaters to better fit the bullet's ogive profile without touching the nose of the bullet. I use delrin because it is easy to machine and doesn't mar or scratch the bullet. Also, rather than use a thin rod that kind of floats in there I use more of a plug with a hole in the middle of it. This ensures, im my eyes, that the bullet is seated as straight as possible.

 

I can post pictures if someone wants to see how I made the Lee better.

 

I agree that one size doesn't always fit all with seating stems. I have two stems for my Redding Competition seater (one is deep for VLD bullets). You still don't ever need a flat stem. With a flat stem, bullet runout is completely controlled by the neck. Even if the tip of the bullet survives, you're doing it wrong.

[2.ooohhh]

With most rifle bullets, yes.

 

Some HP bullets, pistol and rifle, can be partially closed by using the tapered side. And on those I use the flat side to prevent them from closing. RCBS has several different kinds of seaters in their 9mm dies because one size definitely does not fit all HP's.

 

I generally make my own seaters to better fit the bullet's ogive profile without touching the nose of the bullet. I use delrin because it is easy to machine and doesn't mar or scratch the bullet. Also, rather than use a thin rod that kind of floats in there I use more of a plug with a hole in the middle of it. This ensures, im my eyes, that the bullet is seated as straight as possible.

 

I can post pictures if someone wants to see how I made the Lee better.

 

 

I would love to see what you made Dolomite, I've modified several of my lee's seaters but never thought about making an entire new one from derlin no less! (at least until you said that)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Wouldn't have ever thought of making seaters custom matched to bullet profiles, That is a great idea.

[mikegideon]

I have a few seater/bullet combinations that will put a ring on the bullet. That's going to happen depending on how the angles match up, insertion force, and the hardness of the bullet surface. I've never had a situation where I believed it was causing an accuracy problem. As of right now, the softest thing I deal with is a copper jacket. If I was doing a lot of casting, like Dolomite and a few others, I would probably spend more time on it. I can see Delrin working out real well. It's a lot more elastic than steel. Good for the bullet surface, and maybe not so good if you have varying neck tensions. I'm a big stickler for consistent seating depth because it impacts pressure in a big way. That's another reason why you need to set seating depth with the ogive, not the tip. I don't load anything on the fluffy side. They're almost always close to max.

 

One thing I learned early on with reloading... you can slam pretty good ammo together on a progressive or turret, or turn it into a 47 step process like the competition shooters do. Lots of middle ground between those two extremes too.

Edited May 14, 2013 by mikegideon

[ArmyBrat61]

I would love to see pictures of how and what you made, Dolomite. I am always open to learning new and improved/safer ways to reload so any info about seaters and using/fabricating Delrin (where to get it) is welcome. Thank you gentlemen for such fine and thought provoking responses.

Edited May 14, 2013 by ArmyBrat61

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Dolomite can offer lots better advice. I'd probably use a little bit of brass or aluminum rod, just because I've got some of both laying around and don't have any plastic rods laying around (ought to get some, sometime). I'd chuck it into the mini lathe and "mess around" trying to make the interior profile match the bullet shape.

 

Something that might work pretty good in absence of a lathe, maybe there would be better ways-- Chuck the material into a vise-mounted drill or drill press. Pick a likely looking small cutter or grinder bit for a dremel type tool. Spin the part with the drill then "carve" on it with the dremel.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Another possibility, just dumb imagining-- Could take a fine point sharpie marks on anything pen, or a scriber. Using calipers or micrometer, set and lock the caliper to the diameter of each drill bit you have in the size range of the bullet profile. Fit the caliper to the bullet and mark the location on the bullet where the bullet has the same diameter of each drill bit. Then you can measure depth of drilling for each bit, measuring the little sharpie marks.

 

Then clamp the little bit of rod on the drill press table, and drill to proper depth with each bit. That would give a "stepped profile" in the workpiece. Then wrap some emery paper on a little piece of dowel or whatever, chuck the rod in the drill press and use the emery paper to smooth out the "steps" in the profile.

 

Making the outside diameter of the rod proper to fit in the seating die, without a lathe, maybe same deal, chuck it in a drill and sand on the exterior until it is the correct diameter. One way to cut the final to length is to spin the little rod in the drill and hold a hacksaw at the cut line until it cuts thru.

Edited May 14, 2013 by Lester Weevils

[mikegideon]

Or, if you could get an abrasive compound to adhere to the bullet, just do that. Think Tubb's Final Finish.

[mikegideon]

Good job!

[RED333]

Over on Cast Boolits there is a thread about "making" a custom seater, uses JB weld to mold to the top of the boolit.