Non-Resident FLA HCP

[JayC]

No offense, but what does that have to do with the topic of this thread?  Nobody is talking about carrying in FL...  We're talking about carrying in TN by a TN resident on a non-resident FL permit.  Other than the law concerning the issuing of the FL permit, everything else is about TN law is it not?

Florida DOES not have a HCP. They issue a CWP- concealed weapons permit. I only mention it for two reasons: first, it's a matter of semantics and a pet peeve of mine. I'm a native Floridian and was a LEO down there for a long time. It drove me crazy to hear people say, "I was robbed" when in fact their house was in fact broken into and therefore a burglary. Second, you need to understand the differences in TN permit and FL's. Once you know the difference you will understand that you follow FL's statutes when you are there.

[CQB Elite]

For whatever reason he is thinking about getting a FL CWP and using it to carry in TN as a TN resident (something that sounds fishy and sends up red flags to me). The bottom line is if he is in TN then he should follow TN law, if in FL he needs to follow theirs.

Really, he needs to get his TN HCP if he lives here.

[TomXD9]

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Florida Res Permits Only:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

 

This would seem to say that TN (and many others) honors only RESIDENT permits from FL  I am not lawyer or LEO and will not add my personal opinion.

[Joe357]

IMHO, something about the OP question doesn't sound right. If you are a resident of TN you are required to have a tn-hcp to carry a handgun in this state. When I moved here from FL I had to surrender my fl-ccw permit and apply for a Tn-hcp, because I was no longer a resident of FL, I am a resident of TN. That was over 10 years ago, but I don't think the law has changed. Edited November 23, 2013 by joe45

[Fallguy]

 

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Florida Res Permits Only:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

 

This would seem to say that TN (and many others) honors only RESIDENT permits from FL  I am not lawyer or LEO and will not add my personal opinion.

 

 

I think you may have this reversed.  TN honors all other state permits, there is no distinction in the law whether it is a resident or non-resident permit.

 

FL will only honor resident permits from other states.  I imagine this because FL issues non-resident permits.  I have noticed that most states that issue non-resident permits do not honor non-resident permits issued by other states.  Would seem to be purely monetary reasons. 

Edited November 23, 2013 by Fallguy

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Had forgotten about this post.
 

For whatever reason he is thinking about getting a FL CWP and using it to carry in TN as a TN resident (something that sounds fishy and sends up red flags to me).

(And)

IMHO, something about the OP question doesn't sound right.

Since you seem to be concerned let me ease you through this:
The reason I considered this is being in a wheelchair "I use public transportation at the moment and despite a lot of research I can't seem to find any class that would fall in [public transit's] hours of operation so I can get back and forth. [FL's] can be done by mail so that takes the travel burden off of me.".

Considering that you were supposedly a LEO down there and aren't familiar enough to know I would still have to pass a background check sounds fishy to me. The only difference is here I have to take a class that is inaccessible to me.
 

 

 

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Florida Res Permits Only:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

 

This would seem to say that TN (and many others) honors only RESIDENT permits from FL  I am not lawyer or LEO and will not add my personal opinion.

 

The link you provided is a link for "What states honor my permit?". But you did not provide the state, as the link follows it is just an may/shall/right denied issue map. Try clicking FL and then non-resident...TN does honor them. In fact, the only state in the south east that doesn't honor them is SC.

Just to update everyone else: I have not sought out the FL permit and still have yet to get a TN one. While I have had some offers from members to transport me (Thank you guys) none have lived close enough (most offers from Nash and me in Cosby) to make that a realistic option for me.

[Luke E.]

 I sure would hate to be the man that provided the situation for case law. No matter how you cut it the easiest way to carry in TN (and many other places) is going to be by obtaining a TN HCP. I understand that you are stuck using public transport but finding a friend or making a friend and asking them to take you to the class in going to be easier and cheaper than figuring a way to establish residency in another state or to obtain an out of state non resident permit and try to pay to defend your actions in court as well as line up transportation to do so. Hell you'd be better off putting a bit more money in the carry permit fund to cover a cab ride to and from the class on a Saturday and that way you'd only be having to pay for one cab ride or trip worth of gas payed to a buddy or an acquaintance and never have to think of it again. Where there's a will there's way and I can lay here in my bed a come up with ways even though I have no will. Bottom line is, you, me and everyone else here know what the intent of the law is and if as much time and thought were spent trying to work within it as is being spent trying to run wide around it I suspect there'd already be one more TN-HCP holder. Not trying to bust your balls but like you, I have no filter and am calling it like I see it. If I was closer to you I'd drive you to the class myself but I don't know that I've ever heard of Cosby so I don't reckon you're close by.

[CQB Elite]

[quote name="Keal G Seo" post="1068485" timestamp="1385274245"] Had forgotten about this post. Since you seem to be concerned let me ease you through this: The reason I considered this is being in a wheelchair "I use public transportation at the moment and despite a lot of research I can't seem to find any class that would fall in [public transit's] hours of operation so I can get back and forth. [FL's] can be done by mail so that takes the travel burden off of me.". Considering that you were supposedly a LEO down there and aren't familiar enough to know I would still have to pass a background check sounds fishy to me. The only difference is here I have to take a class that is inaccessible to me. The link you provided is a link for "What states honor my permit?". But you did not provide the state, as the link follows it is just an may/shall/right denied issue map. Try clicking FL and then non-resident...TN does honor them. In fact, the only state in the south east that doesn't honor them is SC. Just to update everyone else: I have not sought out the FL permit and still have yet to get a TN one. While I have had some offers from members to transport me (Thank you guys) none have lived close enough (most offers from Nash and me in Cosby) to make that a realistic option for me.[/quote] I didn't say you wouldn't have to pass a background check, that's a given. I was an LEO. Sorry if you don't believe that. Also, I don't believe you cannot find a class to take during public transportation operating hours. Have you called around to the various schools and explained your situation? Asked if they could refer you a private instructor if the school could not accommodate you? In just about every gun store in our area I see business cards for private instructors. You cannot continue to carry on an out of state permit as a resident of TN. Stop trying to find a $75 solution to a $5 problem. How do you plan to get the required training certificate for the FL permit if you can't find a place to get the one for TN? Edited November 24, 2013 by CQB Elite

[Guest Keal G Seo]

 I sure would hate to be the man that provided the situation for case law. No matter how you cut it the easiest way to carry in TN (and many other places) is going to be by obtaining a TN HCP. I understand that you are stuck using public transport but finding a friend or making a friend and asking them to take you to the class in going to be easier and cheaper than figuring a way to establish residency in another state or to obtain an out of state non resident permit and try to pay to defend your actions in court as well as line up transportation to do so. Hell you'd be better off putting a bit more money in the carry permit fund to cover a cab ride to and from the class on a Saturday and that way you'd only be having to pay for one cab ride or trip worth of gas payed to a buddy or an acquaintance and never have to think of it again. Where there's a will there's way and I can lay here in my bed a come up with ways even though I have no will. Bottom line is, you, me and everyone else here know what the intent of the law is and if as much time and thought were spent trying to work within it as is being spent trying to run wide around it I suspect there'd already be one more TN-HCP holder. Not trying to bust your balls but like you, I have no filter and am calling it like I see it. If I was closer to you I'd drive you to the class myself but I don't know that I've ever heard of Cosby so I don't reckon you're close by.

Yeah I'd hate to be that person as well, hence why I haven't done it. Having friends willing to take me is no problem...the problem lies in I need a friend with a pick up truck and another friend to help load my 300 lb wheelchair. Moot point right now before Christmas and early next year most of my spare change will be going to the AR build.

 

I didn't say you wouldn't have to pass a background check, that's a given. I was an LEO. Sorry if you don't believe that. Also, I don't believe you cannot find a class to take during public transportation operating hours. Have you called around to the various schools and explained your situation? Asked if they could refer you a private instructor if the school could not accommodate you? In just about every gun store in our area I see business cards for private instructors. You cannot continue to carry on an out of state permit as a resident of TN. Stop trying to find a $75 solution to a $5 problem. How do you plan to get the required training certificate for the FL permit if you can't find a place to get the one for TN?

I already have the required training certificate for FL, a hunter's safety education card. Yes, that is all that is required. Though I am not following through with it at this time. Yes there are 3 places within my transport area that offer private training. Just at an extreme premium. Not going to name names but think about it: The classes cost at least 60 per person (the lowest I have seen) and there are 10-20 people per class. On the low end that is 600 for a class. Why would any of them offer a single that takes the same amount of time for less than 300? One guy even told me all of his private courses are 1500...

As for carrying on an out of state permit, all depends on the specifics of the situation. I however can't afford an attorney and am not stupid enough, like he who shall not be named, to represent myself just to prove the point.

The intent of the law was to allow non FL residents to carry within FL. However, if you have one it is accepted in other states such as TN. Normal circumstances would be that you lived in say PA and travele to FL often. You would get your FL non resided HCP/CCW/CCP/CWP (or whatever you want to call it) and even in your travel to that state, any states that recognize it and reciprocate will accept it as your HCP. So theoretically (only because there is no case law) if I as a resident of TN got one so I could carry in/on my way to FL and TN law says they honor non resident FL permits it would be perfectly legal.

[dawgdoc]

I feel sympathy for your situation, and I can't offer you any other solutions tham what has already been posted. I would suggest you keep a log of all the costs and difficulties that you face on your quest to legally carry. Then, write a letter to all the law makers to illustrate why mandatory training is a barrier to more people carrying. Most of them might not care, but they should know what a burden the law is.

[Luke E.]

I talked to a Sheriffs Deputy that I go to church with today. I bounced your situation off of him and he made a suggestion. He suggested that you contact some of the deputies in your area and see if you can find one that might be willing to help you out with a ride on their day off. He said you may have no luck but he felt it to be much superior to the out of state non res option. He is very much pro 2A and said that if someone in you're situation contacted him and explained the situation that he would likely try to make something work as long as nothing through up a flag. You could try to find a group of local firearms enthusiast and see if they'd be willing to help. Just have to do some outside of the box thinking. Like I said before, if you were close to me I'd make something work so I'm sure there's someone close by that would do it as well... Just have to find them. Good luck.

[Oh Shoot]

..... So theoretically (only because there is no case law) if I as a resident of TN got one so I could carry in/on my way to FL and TN law says they honor non resident FL permits it would be perfectly legal.

 

I just don't see the legal argument behind this. Statute is pretty clear that TN permits are for TN residents and residents of other states regularly employed in TN for over 6 months.

 

New residents' other state permits are only good for 6 months after residency is established, so it seems pretty far fetched to claim that you as a long term resident could carry on a newly acquired out of state permit. Even stretching such a concept to it's max under any nuances of the TCA wording, certainly you'd only be allowed to do so for six months after obtaining the FL permit anyway.

 

If you haven't been able to work anything out by then, after the first of the year, I will pledge to dedicate a day to drive over from Knoxville and get you to the class and back, and if we can't get to the DMV/fingerprint center on same day, will stay over or come back to do it the next day if you need that also.

 

- OS

Edited November 24, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

This list is incorrect...  TN does honor non-resident FL permits and all permits, except in 2 limited cases...  if you're a resident of TN for more than 6 months, or you work full time for more than 6 months in TN and the permit you have does not fall under a reciprocity agreement.

 

If you don't meet one of those 2 limited exceptions then the FL permit is perfectly fine in TN.

 

 

http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

Florida Res Permits Only:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Delaware, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, Wyoming

 

This would seem to say that TN (and many others) honors only RESIDENT permits from FL  I am not lawyer or LEO and will not add my personal opinion.

 

 

[JayC]

Keal, if the reason you don't have a permit is a lack of a ride because you're in a wheelchair...  lets see what we can do to fix that...  I'd offer to do it but you're 7 or 8 hours from me.

 

Do me a favor, post over on the TFA website and ask them for a hand...  they're going to have a director for your area that will put the word out and find you a permit instructor who will be flexible in scheduling or somebody who is willing to give you a ride.

 

There is no reason to break the law, if you want a permit I'm sure other HCP supporters can help you find a way to get a permit...  

 

While I can't get away for a couple of days, I'd be happy to help out any other way...  There is no reason in the Volunteer state that a law abiding wheelchair bound adult should have to go unarmed.  I'm positive as a community we can work together to resolve this issue.

 

Had forgotten about this post.
 

Since you seem to be concerned let me ease you through this:
The reason I considered this is being in a wheelchair "I use public transportation at the moment and despite a lot of research I can't seem to find any class that would fall in [public transit's] hours of operation so I can get back and forth. [FL's] can be done by mail so that takes the travel burden off of me.".

Considering that you were supposedly a LEO down there and aren't familiar enough to know I would still have to pass a background check sounds fishy to me. The only difference is here I have to take a class that is inaccessible to me.
 

 

The link you provided is a link for "What states honor my permit?". But you did not provide the state, as the link follows it is just an may/shall/right denied issue map. Try clicking FL and then non-resident...TN does honor them. In fact, the only state in the south east that doesn't honor them is SC.

Just to update everyone else: I have not sought out the FL permit and still have yet to get a TN one. While I have had some offers from members to transport me (Thank you guys) none have lived close enough (most offers from Nash and me in Cosby) to make that a realistic option for me.

[Luke E.]

I just don't see the legal argument behind this. Statute is pretty clear that TN permits are for TN residents and residents of other states regularly employed in TN for over 6 months.

New residents' other state permits are only good for 6 months after residency is established, so it seems pretty far fetched to claim that you as a long term resident could carry on a newly acquired out of state permit. Even stretching such a concept to it's max under any nuances of the TCA wording, certainly you'd only be allowed to do so for six months after obtaining the FL permit anyway.

If you haven't been able to work anything out by then, after the first of the year, I will pledge to dedicate a day to drive over from Knoxville and get you to the class and back, and if we can't get to the DMV/fingerprint center on same day, will stay over or come back to do it the next day if you need that also.

- OS

Keal this is the kind of thing I was talking about. OS is making an incredible offer here and would be a must better option than testing out a possible loophole.

[DaveTN]

If you haven't been able to work anything out by then, after the first of the year, I will pledge to dedicate a day to drive over from Knoxville and get you to the class and back, and if we can't get to the DMV/fingerprint center on same day, will stay over or come back to do it the next day if you need that also.

Good for you. I was kinda thinking that is how this would end.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

I just don't see the legal argument behind this. Statute is pretty clear that TN permits are for TN residents and residents of other states regularly employed in TN for over 6 months.

 

New residents' other state permits are only good for 6 months after residency is established, so it seems pretty far fetched to claim that you as a long term resident could carry on a newly acquired out of state permit. Even stretching such a concept to it's max under any nuances of the TCA wording, certainly you'd only be allowed to do so for six months after obtaining the FL permit anyway.

 

If you haven't been able to work anything out by then, after the first of the year, I will pledge to dedicate a day to drive over from Knoxville and get you to the class and back, and if we can't get to the DMV/fingerprint center on same day, will stay over or come back to do it the next day if you need that also.

 

- OS

Wow, thank you. Not sure when exactly I'll be able to take you up on that but will most certainly keep it in mind after the new year.

Gun owners community is great.

[Oh Shoot]

Wow, thank you. Not sure when exactly I'll be able to take you up on that but will most certainly keep it in mind after the new year.

Gun owners community is great.

 

I'll PM you my phone number. I'm retired, so can do just about any time with a few days notice before.

 

- OS