AK and AR pistols

[Guest Joshua__423]

Given I have only held and never shot either Im wondering how they actually shoot. Ive heard the bullet doesnt have time to do what it needs to do before the end of the barrel with these short barrels on rifle cartridges. Holding these are kind of akward but I maybe doing it wrong. Anyway I love the idea of the AK pistol but Im hesitant to invest in 1 for these reasons. Looking for some help guys! Thanks in advance!

[Steelharp]

I owned two of the Kel-Tec flavor, the PLR-16. They were an absolute hoot! Loud, huge fireball... a lot more recoil than an AR. I, too, read the lack of effectiveness from the short barrel, so I determined I would be better served with at least a carbine.

 

For fun, they are just plain awesome. For business, I just don't know.

[Westwindmike]

I had an AR pistol. Like Steel said, huge fireball with factory loads. Wear plugs and muffs to shoot it!

 

I tried loading down, but never got a load that was comfortable to shoot, that would cycle the action. With full power Lake City ammo, it would shoot dime size groups at 25 yards off a bipod. It was fun for a while, but I traded it for a .223 pistol that I could hit something with. A Contender.

[Smith]

AK pistols make sense. The 7.62 is a fast burning round and is pretty much maxed out in a 16 in barrel, so a site barrel you're only losing a couple hundred fps. Effective range is about the same as a longer barrel.

AR pistols don't make a whole lot of sense to me because you have reliability issues, the 5.56 loses quite a bit in the shorter barrel, and you basically end up with a high velocity .22 magnum IMO.
Edited May 11, 2013 by Smith

[KKing]

AR pistols don't make a whole lot of sense to me because you have reliability issues, the 5.56 loses quite a bit in the shorter barrel, and you basically end up with a high velocity .22 magnum IMO.

Who has reliability issues? Have you owned one? I own them, have built them, and as long as you have an inkling of how to tune your gas system vs. buffer, there's no problem. My latest build is a 7.5" barrel. Has no fireball because it has the Noveske KX3 on it. It is loud, but again with the KX3 all the noise is mainly down range.

To the "can't do what it's supposed to do" people. What's yours "supposed" to do? We've shot mine at 100 yards and have no problem hitting a 12" steel plate. No, the ballistics won't be what a 16" barrel with a carbine gas system would be, that's common sense. But mine was built to have fun with, and it does exactly that. Would I take it to a battle? Well that's a silly question, that's not what it's for. Is it fun, reliable, and accurate at 100 yards and a little further? It sure has been. So, no...it may not punch through cinder blocks at 200 yards. If you want that, a pistol build isn't for you. But to make claims that they aren't reliable based on what you've heard or read on the interwebz isn't right.

ETA: Edited May 11, 2013 by KKing

[Smith]

AR pistols don't make a whole lot of sense to me because you have reliability issues, the 5.56 loses quite a bit in the shorter barrel, and you basically end up with a high velocity .22 magnum IMO.

Who has reliability issues? Have you owned one? I own them, have built them, and as long as you have an inkling of how to tune your gas system vs. buffer, there's no problem. My latest build is a 7.5" barrel. Has no fireball because it has the Noveske KX3 on it. It is loud, but again with the KX3 all the noise is mainly down range.


To the "can't do what it's supposed to do" people. What's yours "supposed" to do? We've shot mine at 100 yards and have no problem hitting a 12" steel plate. No, the ballistics won't be what a 16" barrel with a carbine gas system would be, that's common sense. But mine was built to have fun with, and it does exactly that. Would I take it to a battle? Well that's a silly question, that's not what it's for. Is it fun, reliable, and accurate at 100 yards and a little further? It sure has been. So, no...it may not punch through cinder blocks at 200 yards. If you want that, a pistol build isn't for you. But to make claims that they aren't reliable based on what you've heard or read on the interwebz isn't right.


ETA:

At least your not sensitive about it. :blink:

Any gun that needs that much tuning to get to work is not my idea of reliable. Fun toy, sure. Practical tool, not my first choice.

IMO, an AK pistol is a practical tool and a fun toy. I was making a comparison and no I don't have AR pistol. Don't need it. I have an AK pistol. :D

[KKing]

At least your not sensitive about it. :blink:

Any gun that needs that much tuning to get to work is not my idea of reliable. Fun toy, sure. Practical tool, not my first choice.

IMO, an AK pistol is a practical tool and a fun toy. I was making a comparison and no I don't have AR pistol. Don't need it. I have an AK pistol. :D

Not sensitive at all, just no need in speculating, and that's all you're doing. What "tuning" are you talking about?! The kind where you assemble the gun and shoot it? That's all I've ever done, so I don't understand what you're saying. If you're just quoting what I said above, I should have used the term "set up" your gas system, so I can see how that's confusing. Please, share.

That's kinda like me saying Masseratis are silly because they require too much maintenance and are finicky.....I've never owned or driven one, but I've read it.

You prefer the AK, that's great, I'd like to own one of those too. But I haven't, so I won't tell the OP anything I've read or heard about them just to be "that guy" that puts something down without knowledge on it Edited May 11, 2013 by KKing

[Smith]

At least your not sensitive about it. :blink:


Any gun that needs that much tuning to get to work is not my idea of reliable. Fun toy, sure. Practical tool, not my first choice.


IMO, an AK pistol is a practical tool and a fun toy. I was making a comparison and no I don't have AR pistol. Don't need it. I have an AK pistol. :D

Not sensitive at all, just no need in speculating, and that's all you're doing. What "tuning" are you talking about?! The kind where you assemble the gun and shoot it? That's all I've ever done, so I don't understand what you're saying. Please, do tell.


That's kinda like me saying Masseratis are silly because they require too much maintenance and are finicky.....I've never owned or driven one, but I've read it.


You prefer the AK, that's great, I'd like to own one of those too. But I haven't, so I won't tell the OP anything I've read or heard about them just to be "that guy" that spreads nonsense

Lighten up Lucy. I stated my opinion, that is all. I work around these things everyday. OP asked for opinions I gave mine.

[KKing]

Lighten up Lucy. I stated my opinion, that is all. I work around these things everyday. OP asked for opinions I gave mine.

Trust me, I'm golden. I just figured if we were going to really help the guy out we might actually give him factual info, not second hand. I believe there's a lot of us that work around these things every day, either building at home or in a shop, so....;) Edited May 11, 2013 by KKing

[RichardR]

I had always heard the same thing about AR SBR's & pistols, unreliable, underpowered (like a 22 mag), inaccurate, etc but my first-hand experiences in owning super-shorty pistol/SBR'ed AR's has proven all of the previous rumors I had heard wrong.

I enjoy them quite a bit, aside from how extremely loud they are that is ...

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Get away from a standard configuration on any gun and there will be tuning issues. The only real issue I've

had with an AR pistol is the putting the right buffer to tune it, and the Noveske Pig is a needed muzzle device.

You can't play as much with an AK to tune, but I imagine it is correct out of the box. You just about have to build

your own AR pistol, so I think it is apples and oranges. Accuracy wise, I didn't make my pistols for long range

shooting so the bullet does all I think it needs to do.

 

Both guns will do as advertized.

[Fourtyfive]

I have one of each , a hoot to shoot. Effective , who cares ? I like them because just like BRC's exposed gas tube , they are intimidating.  :rofl:

[TMF]

The thing that drove me to an AK pistol vs an AR pistol was the loss of muzzle velocity. You lose so much muzzle velocity on that 5.56 that it is a .22 mag that makes a lot of noise. Nothing wrong with that at all. They're still a lot of fun, and they are easier to customize with cool parts. I wanted something for a SBR project/truck gun. The AK made more sense since it wasn't losing much muzzle velocity yet came in a smaller package.

[Steelharp]

This thread has been very bad.

 

Making me want an AK pistol.

 

Dammit.

[TMF]

This thread has been very bad.

Making me want an AK pistol.

Dammit.

Well they're coming down in price finally. I'm pretty happy with mine. Nice and small, fits great in the truck better than my full sized AK.

[Hershmeister]

SBR an AK pistol. The only way to go

[Steelharp]

Lighten up Lucy.

Yep; THAT's gonna get some mileage from me. Lol!

[RichardR]

You lose so much muzzle velocity on that 5.56 that it is a .22 mag that makes a lot of noise.

I have heard this rumor a lot, however as I mentioned earlier none of the rumors I have heard about AR SBR's/pistols were true.

The velocities of a 55 grain bullet in a 7.5" barrel is about 2,200-2,500fps depending on the load & the.22WRM pushes a 50 grain bullet at 1,652fps out of a 16" barrel. ... the two are not even close.

The MP7 uses the 4.6x30mm cartridge. It pushes a 31gr bullet at 2,250fps. The P90 uses the 5.7x28mm cartridge. It pushes a 31gr bullet 2,350fps.

So an AR w/a 7.5" barrel, pushing a 55 grain bullet at 2,350fps is still quite potent.

[Steelharp]

I think the issue, as I understand it, is that the 5.56 loses its' tumble at impact at the lower velocity, and therefore loses its' wound capability. I think that's where the comparison to a .22 round comes in.

 

I don't know; I'm just offering that to the discussion.

[RichardR]

I think the issue, as I understand it, is that the 5.56 loses its' tumble at impact at the lower velocity, and therefore loses its' wound capability. I think that's where the comparison to a .22 round comes in.

I don't know; I'm just offering that to the discussion.

Yup I can see that arguement being made, however there are so many choices w/regards to 5.56/223 bullet selection these days that there is no need to just use FMJ (and rely on tumbling/fragmentation) when JHP or SP expand easily at those velocities and are widely availible.

[bigwakes]

The best by far in my collection is a 9" AR pistol chambered in 300 blackout. It throws upto a 240 grain projectile 1050 fps and hits like a mule at 50-60 yards or will throw a 125 gr bullet 2200 fps with 1360 foot pounds of energy. It's everything you could ask for in one package. Add a suppressor and every other gun becomes a safe queen.

[RichardR]

The best by far in my collection is a 9" AR pistol chambered in 300 blackout. It throws upto a 240 grain projectile 1050 fps and hits like a mule at 50-60 yards or will throw a 125 gr bullet 2200 fps with 1360 foot pounds of energy. It's everything you could ask for in one package. Add a suppressor and every other gun becomes a safe queen.

Sounds like that would make for a great brush gun, have you tried it out on hogs or whitetails yet?

[bigwakes]

I took it once last year for white tail, but didn't get a shot.
Take a look at all the hog hunters already using it though.


http://m.youtube.com/results?q=300%20blackout%20hog

I did put it on a buddies full auto m16 lower though with amazing results.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PrE0_jnv4c0

[TMF]

I have heard this rumor a lot, however as I mentioned earlier none of the rumors I have heard about AR SBR's/pistols were true.


The velocities of a 55 grain bullet in a 7.5" barrel is about 2,200-2,500fps depending on the load & the.22WRM pushes a 50 grain bullet at 1,652fps out of a 16" barrel. ... the two are not even close.


The MP7 uses the 4.6x30mm cartridge. It pushes a 31gr bullet at 2,250fps. The P90 uses the 5.7x28mm cartridge. It pushes a 31gr bullet 2,350fps.


So an AR w/a 7.5" barrel, pushing a 55 grain bullet at 2,350fps is still quite potent.

And 7.62 leaves my 10 inch barrel almost as fast as that 5.56 and weighs almost three times as much.

The point of my post was that the muzzle velocity you lose from going from 16 to 7-10 inches on a 5.56 rifle is far more drastic than going from 16 to 10 inches on a 7.62. I only lose about 100-150 fps whereas someone with a 5.56 is losing anywhere from 300-500 fps.

A 55 gr round moving at 2,200 fps is comparable to a .22 magnum which can move out at around 2,000 fps on a 40 gr round.

Dunno, seems to make sense to me. Doesn't really matter to most people what the round performance is if they're shooting paper for fun. My AK pistol is a SHTF back up.

[KKing]

Glad you typed that last paragraph, because that is the biggest point of all. You have a designated purpose for your AK pistol, so you need that knock down at ever how many yards. I don't think anyone that builds a short barreled AR would say that. The point is each is good in it's own right. One could argue that the AR is better because of the ease to switch between calibers, but that's another conversation entirely. The only way to say one is "better" than the other is by individual want/need Edited May 11, 2013 by KKing