Who open carries?

[RobertNashville]

How many people do you think are OCing at any given time in the US? 1,000? 2,000? Every single day. Yet an OC baiting video pops up every few weeks. Heck, if only 1,000 people OC in an entire week, and a whopping 10 baiting videos show up during that time, you're looking at 1% of the OC population. That's a pretty low percentage to judge and entire group by.

Personally, I OC (on the few occasions I do) purely for comfort and deterrence. All of the people I have ever personally sen OCing were doing normal things like eating or working. No cameras, no followings, etc. several times I asked friends I was with about it, and they never even noticed the OCers. The normal folks are the ones not causing a scene and tend to get noticed much less.

I really don't care how many there are; I also don't judge how often there is a problem based on what makes it to YouTube or others' personal experiences; such are lousy sources for data on which to draw conclusions.

 

Every time there is an incident, it does NOTHING good for firearm owners who carry and gives reason for those who abhor the thought of private citizens carrying arms more reason to try and limit, no expand, our ability to carry legally..

[Guest McE]

Do you need a license to open carry? I think in other states you only need a license to conceal it.

[nightrunner]

Do you need a license to open carry? I think in other states you only need a license to conceal it.

In Tn you must have a permit to carry period, whether concealed or not

[RobertNashville]

Do you need a license to open carry? I think in other states you only need a license to conceal it.

You need an HCP in Tennessee to carry.

[Fallguy]

Do you need a license to open carry? I think in other states you only need a license to conceal it.

In about half the states or just a bit more you can OC without a permit/license, but TN is not one of them.

 

(From http://www.opencarry.org/)

Edited August 15, 2013 by Fallguy

[Guest TankerHC]

I was up in Chattanooga last week coming out of a shop and this guy gets out of his vehicle, Cowboy hat on and a big revolver on his hip. I slowed down a bit and stared, he started staring back.

 

note to open carriers: If a guy (or gal) is staring at your pistol they might not be afraid of it, they might be thinking "686 or 29? Hard to tell in that holster", "nice holster" Wonder what he's carrying in that thing for SD?"

 

I know its not polite to stare, cant help it.

[Q-tip]

Every time there is an incident, it does NOTHING good for firearm owners who carry and gives reason for those who abhor the thought of private citizens carrying arms more reason to try and limit, no expand, our ability to carry legally..

I agree completely.

Which brings me to another point. We use baiters and scared sheep as reasons to tell people not to OC, but when we hear about ND's and other accidents by CCers on a weekly basis, nobody says we need to stop CCing, nor are all CCers equated with those guys. Honestly, it's a bit of a double standard. With both forms of carry, we need to remove ourselves from the idiots, and carry responsibly and safely so that we cast a good light on all gun owners.

[RobertNashville]

I agree completely.

Which brings me to another point. We use baiters and scared sheep as reasons to tell people not to OC, but when we hear about ND's and other accidents by CCers on a weekly basis, nobody says we need to stop CCing, nor are all CCers equated with those guys...

ND's/accidents on a weekly basis? Well, considering the millions of firearm owners in the U.S. I suppose there probably are NDs and accidents every week "somewhere". However, I very much doubt you know what kind or carry method was involved or even carrying had anything to do with it.  If you know that than you must have access to data most other people don't.  Care to cite your sources?

 

 

...Honestly, it's a bit of a double standard. With both forms of carry, we need to remove ourselves from the idiots, and carry responsibly and safely so that we cast a good light on all gun owners.

I don't see how there is a double standard because I don't see how the issues are even remotely the same. Further, if you've spent any time on this or any other gun board I'd suggest those who have NDs are excoriated by the members (as are people who OC and cause problems). So please explain this "double standard" you say exists?

 

I'll give you this, anyone who has shown him/herself to be prone to NDs shouldn't be carrying regardless of HOW they carry and perhaps should give up handling firearms at all...is that an equal enough standard for you?

 

While it can happen to anyone, ND's (or ADs) are generally the result of poor skills or poor training (which usually go hand in hand it seems) or perhaps the loss of fine motor skills during a time of high stress. I really doubt that many of the NDs that happen have anyting to do with carry method or carrying at all; I'd suggest that if you look into the issue of NDs you would find that most of them happen at gun ranges, training courses, and at home (cleaning/handling the weapon) and aren't being "carried" in public, concealed or unconcealed.

 

As I've shared on this forum before, I occasionally (although rarely) carry unconcealed; depending mostly on where I'm going to be, whom I'm going to be with/seen by and what I'm doing that day...99% of the time I carry concealed.  I don't really have a problem with those who carry unconcealed most or all of the time (although I think they should understand that they are severely stretching the line for legal carry per TN law). What I DO have a problem with are those who carry openly to tweak the noses of those who don't carry and/or to make some kind of political statement and/or because it makes them feel powerful. However, regardless of "why" someone is carrying openly, I especially have a problem with people carrying openly when it DOES cause a problem (especially if causing a problem was their reason to do it) because that affects me and every other person who has made the decision to carry a firearm.

Edited August 16, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest confidence]

:popcorn:

[TMF]

:popcorn:

 

The carry wars.  Begun it has.

[Q-tip]

I never said the NDers don't get berated. Please re-read my post. I said we don't use the ND's and other accidents as reasons to TELL PEOPLE NOT TO CC. However, the fact that some people bait or unintentionally scare the sheep is used to TELL PEOPLE NOT TO OC. This is the double standard I'm talking about. (Sorry for the caps, Tapatalk doesn't do bold)

Those of us who CC generally do a great job of distancing ourselves from the few who make mistakes, and we try to learn from the mistakes of others so we don't make them ourselves. If the same principle of removing the idiots, learning from their mistakes, yet still SUPPORTING THE RESPONSIBLE CARRIERS (bold) would be applied to OC, I would have no problem with that. In fact, I would likely have not even posted I this thread. So in that regard I completely agree with your last paragraph. Edited August 16, 2013 by Q-tip

[RobertNashville]

I never said the NDers don't get berated. Please re-read my post. I said we don't use the ND's and other accidents as reasons to TELL PEOPLE NOT TO CC. However, the fact that some people bait or unintentionally scare the sheep is used to TELL PEOPLE NOT TO OC. This is the double standard I'm talking about. (Sorry for the caps, Tapatalk doesn't do bold)

Those of us who CC generally do a great job of distancing ourselves from the few who make mistakes, and we try to learn from the mistakes of others so we don't make them ourselves. If the same principle of removing the idiots, learning from their mistakes, yet still SUPPORTING THE RESPONSIBLE CARRIERS (bold) would be applied to OC, I would have no problem with that. In fact, I would likely have not even posted I this thread. So in that regard I completely agree with your last paragraph.

I really don't get what you are trying to say with the ND and concealed carry analogy but okay...I agree...someone prone to NDs are generally not told to not carry concealed. So what? If those prone to NDs aren't told not to carry concealed it's most likely because 9,999 times out of 10,000, "carrying" (open or concealed) has ZERO to do with NDs.. :screwy:

 

NDs are bad and should be avoided (and will be if all firearm safety rules are followed)...NDs are bad if your carrying openly, carrying concealed or happen (I would suggest most often) when "carrying" isn't even part of the equation.

 

Carrying openly and causing an incident is bad and should be avoided (and almost always can be if people just used the common sense God gave a walnut). And you know what, carrying concealed and causing an incident is also bad (it's just that such incidents don't happen often if someone is actually concealed).

 

I don't have to support ANY PARTICULAR METHOD OF CARRY to be supportive of your and everyone's firearm rights and I won't support any method of carry that tends to cause problems for me or other firearm owners.

Edited August 17, 2013 by RobertNashville

[LenoirGunner]

Well this has gotten off topic from what I had intended.

[TGO David]

Well this has gotten off topic from what I had intended.

 

 

Heh... forums.  :)

 

 

 

[Guest gunownerintn]

I open carry exclusively. I was at a Target with my wife and todler daughter open carrying on Friday morning and got thanked.

[Guest gunownerintn]

If those who open carry do so for the purpose of "educating" the sheep and/or do so without taking into consideration "where" they are going to be, "when" they are going to be there and "who" is going to see them then they shouldn't be surprised if Tennessee reverts to the standard of most states which is to MANDATE concealed carry.

 

Only 6 states MANDATE concealed carry, how does that qualify as most?

[RobertNashville]

Only 6 states MANDATE concealed carry, how does that qualify as most?

I guess it doesn't...did you join the forum this morning just so you could tweek my nose or is there a point here that I'm missing? ;)

 

If you'll note in rest of my post which you didn't quote; Tennessee (whcih is the state I'm mainly concerned with); the "open carry" that is allowed here is being stretched far beyond the orignial intent and sthings stretched too far have the often undesirable tendency to snap back and go too far in the other direction.

Edited August 18, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Fallguy]

I guess it doesn't...did you join the forum this morning just so you could tweek my nose or is there a point here that I'm missing? ;)

 

If you'll note in rest of my post which you didn't quote; Tennessee (whcih is the state I'm mainly concerned with); the "open carry" that is allowed here is being stretched far beyond the orignial intent and sthings stretched too far have the often undesirable tendency to snap back and go too far in the other direction.

 

If you OC, I'm not sure it can be "stretched" much further. You either OCing or not, it's not something that goes further and further.  Now the amount of people is something that can grow, but one could argue the more that do the more acceptable it may be seen and also the more that would be willing to keep legislatures in place to make sure it continues to be allowed.

 

The current HCP law has been in effect for about 16-17 years and in all the changes and debate I've heard discussed since in the legislature, removing/restricting OC hasn't been amongst it.  Considering half the states allow OC without a permit at all, it would seem a real step backwards if TN which has allowed only with a permit for 17 years suddenly outlawed it.

[RobertNashville]

If you OC, I'm not sure it can be "stretched" much further. You either OCing or not, it's not something that goes further and further. Now the amount of people is something that can grow, but one could argue the more that do the more acceptable it may be seen and also the more that would be willing to keep legislatures in place to make sure it continues to be allowed.

The current HCP law has been in effect for about 16-17 years and in all the changes and debate I've heard discussed since in the legislature, removing/restricting OC hasn't been amongst it. Considering half the states allow OC without a permit at all, it would seem a real step backwards if TN which has allowed only with a permit for 17 years suddenly outlawed it.

Well; I'm not sure that it can't be "stretched" much further and every negative incident hurts us all. In any case, very few legislative changes happen suddenly unless there is something really spectacular that happens (such as the laws passed shortyl after 9-11) or the push after the Sandy Hook shooting (which failed at the national level but the anti-gunners have certainly had success in a few states!0. You may be right, perhaps more people openly carrying will cause people to get used to the idea but it could also have the opposite affect and move the legislature to put more restrictions on us. Those who want to limit our rights to arms never stop trying and will use any excuse to push their agenda; patience often pays off handsomly whenit comes to matters of politics and public policy and it's in our own best interests to keep that in mind anytime we are in public regardless of our chosen method of carry.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about those who carry openly for political purposes and/or ego purposes - those are the people that cam and often do cause the most harm.

Edited August 18, 2013 by RobertNashville

[TMF]

If you OC, I'm not sure it can be "stretched" much further.

 

Voldemort.

[Wyldk2]

He who shall not be named?

 

I guess I'm lucky to not have been here when he was starting all his shenanigans. I won't say his name as to give him some sort of recognization, and won't because the guy is going about it all wrong. He probably would OC a Bazooka if he could get away with it.

[Fallguy]

Well; I'm not sure that it can't be "stretched" much further and every negative incident hurts us all. In any case, very few legislative changes happen suddenly unless there is something really spectacular that happens (such as the laws passed shortyl after 9-11) or the push after the Sandy Hook shooting (which failed at the national level but the anti-gunners have certainly had success in a few states!0. You may be right, perhaps more people openly carrying will cause people to get used to the idea but it could also have the opposite affect and move the legislature to put more restrictions on us. Those who want to limit our rights to arms never stop trying and will use any excuse to push their agenda; patience often pays off handsomly whenit comes to matters of politics and public policy and it's in our own best interests to keep that in mind anytime we are in public regardless of our chosen method of carry.

Frankly, I'm more concerned about those who carry openly for political purposes and/or ego purposes - those are the people that cam and often do cause the most harm.

 

I understand what you are saying.... If the OC question was in Washington instead of Nashville, I'd be a bit more concerned.  That said, Nashville has pulled some real boners as well......

[TMF]

He who shall not be named?

I guess I'm lucky to not have been here when he was starting all his shenanigans. I won't say his name as to give him some sort of recognization, and won't because the guy is going about it all wrong. He probably would OC a Bazooka if he could get away with it.

Ha, well that was bringing attention to "stretching" OC further than what the law intends. OCing an AK pistol is not the intent. The intent of the law is to allow people to carry a personal defense firearm. While I don't really care if someone carries a mouse gun or an M60 for self defense, it's clear what he was doing and it is an example of someone stretching the intent of the law.

Not that I feel something needs to be done about it, just citing an example. Personally, when folks like Voldemort go out with the intention of inciting panic in order to pick a fight with LEOs, they should just assign a cop to stand two feet from him until he's done with his nonsense. It will avoid panic from people and avoid legal buttpain, plus it will prevent the idiot from doing it again since he didnt get a rise out of the cops.

[Guest confidence]

I OC'ed at Shiloh National Park recently. Didn't come in contact with any rangers, but the regular folk didn't bat an eye. :angel:

[Guest gunownerintn]

I guess it doesn't...did you join the forum this morning just so you could tweek my nose or is there a point here that I'm missing? ;)

If you'll note in rest of my post which you didn't quote; Tennessee (whcih is the state I'm mainly concerned with); the "open carry" that is allowed here is being stretched far beyond the orignial intent and sthings stretched too far have the often undesirable tendency to snap back and go too far in the other direction.

I joint so that I could actually read the forum without continual clearing the browser cache. Tweaking you nose, because of lies or willful ignorance, was a side benefit.

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