Cody Wilson (3D printed guns)

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Well I am sure most of you at least have heard of Cody Wilson and 3D printed lower receivers. Well the next step has been taken, a functional fully 3D printed gun! It does have a metal slug inserted to comply with being detectable.

Here are my questions for you guys:
1. What do you think of the idea of 3D printed guns? (Assuming they lasted longer)
2. Would you own one at the current tech level? Future tech level?
3. Would you pay full retail to press the print button to have a "home built" firearm? (Kind of like an 80% build party, just much easier.)
4. Other thoughts or concerns?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JK55GSbSWQ0
 

PS- Sorry for the anti-gun chatter, it was just the most complete video I could find of the test fire.

[Garufa]

I think they will be outlawed before most can even come up with some thoughts on them.

[Chucktshoes]

I think they will be outlawed before most can even come up with some thoughts on them.

I don't think that really matters. Pandora's box has been opened.

[Guest drv2fst]

I think they will be outlawed before most can even come up with some thoughts on them.

 

I think they may try but when do we pass the tipping point where law enforcement can't possibly keep up with technology?  When do we stop trying to ban things we know we can't enforce?

 

Meth is illegal but (according to TV) can be made easily and cheaply.  Law Enforcement has already proven they can't make it go away despite their best efforts (and billions of our $).  Just like moonshine during prohibition.  How can you effectively enforce a ban on something that can be made at home?

[Smokin45]

Here it goes already    http://www.wetmtv.com/news/local/story/Schumer-Announces-Bill-to-Ban-3D-Printed-Guns/yp8uWIfrXkyIGnx_WXqQiw.cspx

[itchytriggerfinger]

Do they make a SuperTuck for it yet?  :)

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Here it goes already    http://www.wetmtv.com/news/local/story/Schumer-Announces-Bill-to-Ban-3D-Printed-Guns/yp8uWIfrXkyIGnx_WXqQiw.cspx

Yeah this why I am asking. Does this not fall under building a firearm for yourself? We already have laws that say if you built these you couldn't sell them, so why do we need another law? Just enforce them. As for the prohibition side of printing firearms isn't that just limiting my second amendment right?

[Guest TankerHC]

Since Schumer has been all over the news having a hissy fit, I can see why what he is doing is probably not illegal. (3D Printing). Although a firearm as defined by ATF (A) any weapon (including a starter gun), which will, or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive;

But straight from ATF.gov

"For your information, per provisions of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968, 18 U.S.C. Chapter 44, an unlicensed individual may make a “firearm” as defined in the GCA for his own personal use, but not for sale or distribution."

Reading further, as long as the gun meets all specifications of a legal firearm, he is perfectly legal to roll his own, just cant sell it. I suppose Schumer will have the 68 GCA changed.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/firearms-technology.html

But have to agree, the Technology Cat is out of the bag. This is just the tip of the iceberg, another 2-3 years this will be an everyday thing. Edited May 6, 2013 by TankerHC

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

While I do think other countries should be able to enjoy gun ownership as much as we do, if the BBC came to my "factory" I would give them a short interview stating they need a few more letters in their network name, FOAD. I mean they are a MSM outlet in a country that at one point a majority of its police force hardly carried firearms.

[Guest Brutnus]

Hi. yes, um. I have a question.

 

What is the difference between this and a auto cad program + mil/lathe?

[Guest RedLights&Sirens]

Hi. yes, um. I have a question.

What is the difference between this and a auto cad program + mil/lathe?

Cheaper materials, easier access, less room and power needed for production.

$8,000 for one machine that will be cutting plastic and can fit in your living room vs a lathe AND milling machine that will need a garage or basement and more power for cutting metal... etc Edited May 6, 2013 by RedLights&Sirens

[MacGyver]

Cheaper materials, easier access, less room and power needed for production.

$8,000 for one machine that will be cutting plastic and can fit in your living room vs a lathe AND milling machine that will need a garage or basement and more power for cutting metal... etc

Times have changed.  I just bought a 3D printer for less than $400.  It takes up about the same amount of space as either my 7x16 lathe or my CNC mill.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

Times have changed.  I just bought a 3D printer for less than $400.  It takes up about the same amount of space as either my 7x16 lathe or my CNC mill.

I was going to say they have gotten cheaper, but I had no idea they were that cheap. May I ask where I might find such a deal?

[MacGyver]

Here's one:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1650950769/rigidbot-3d-printer

[itchytriggerfinger]

I believe the local Nashville robotics club has been working on building some "RidgeBot like" 3d printers.

[MacGyver]

The MakerBot, which is arguably the big player in the "recreational" space is around $2000.

[Chucktshoes]

You can order one from staples.com for $1300 and in June will be able to get them in stores.

[Randall53]

"It's stomach churning" he says.....GOOD..Mine churns every time I look at Fienstien, Pelosi, Shumer, Reid, either of the Clintons but especially H. Clinton, Boxer, either of the BHO Clan...........ad nauseum......
,

[Guest Keal G Seo]

The MakerBot, which is arguably the big player in the "recreational" space is around $2000.

Yeah I had looked at them. I figure for that price though I could get a mini cnc. I did like your other suggestion though. Not ordering it from KickStarter but I book marked InventApart for when regular sales start.

[monkeylizard]

The machine he used for this is a higher end one. I don't recall the name but the MakerBot wouldn't do the job. Something about how the one he uses keeps the plastic at a higher temp necessary for the pressures this thing is going to be put under. I'm not all up to speed on 3D printers, but I think the jist of it is that this doesn't mean you can make one on a cheaper model and have it function...yet.

 

Second, it's not completely 3D printed. In addition to the metal plate added to meet the requirements of needing to be detectable in airport scanners, it also has a metal firing pin.

 

As for the OP's questions:

1) Once the longevity issue can be solved, I'd have no problem with a printed gun part vs injection molded part.

 

2) Definitely not at the current level. When they are as good or better than what we use today, sure.

 

3) No. I pay retail because multiple people have used their time, materials and equipment to design it, make it and deliver it. If I'm using my printer with my plastic and my time, I would only be willing to pay for the design efforts. Plans will become open source and crowd-sourced for improvements/perfection, eliminating the need to compensate anyone for their design time.

 

4) It's a legitimate concern that people who shouldn't have firearms can make them at home, but they can do that today. There's nothing that really stops a criminal from making a firearm now using old-school blacksmithing skills, but it's difficult, time consuming, and expensive. AutoCAD+mil/lathe makes it easier and less time consuming, but still expensive. 3D printing makes it easy, still somewhat time consuming, and cheap. In the end, no regular criminal is going to bother with a 3D printer when they can get a Jennings on the corner for $50. Why waste time and money on some printer, computer, special plastic, learning the software, then risk it blowing up in your hand? Just go steal a real one.

 

The bigger concern to me is someone defeating security check points, especially when multiple parties are working to do so. One perp carries a single bullet past the control point (probably not too hard) while another takes the firing pin and plastic parts, that thanks to limitless design capabilities may look nothing like a traditional firearm (.380 portable DVD player, anyone?). No one piece of metal is enough to set off the detectors, or if it does, is small enough to be hidden in a legit piece of metal (Zippo lighter, steel shanked shoe, jewelry...). Need more bullets smuggled through? Make multiple trips and stash them, or involve more people.

[Fourtyfive]

Do I like it , yes , would it be fun to make one , yes , would I trust my life on it , no. I am looking into buying one for fun though.

[ironsniper1]

Me and my gf are looking into getting a 3d printer for different uses

[itchytriggerfinger]

Me and my gf are looking into getting a 3d printer for different uses

I'm not sure they have perfected printing latex yet . ;)

[Ted S.]

Seems as though the future of 3-D printing could finally yeild a true manifestation of liberty and capitalism. People will only focus on the negative with this sort of tech because they have been programmed to think that way. Hopefully that changes sooner rather than never.

[Guest Keal G Seo]

The machine he used for this is a higher end one. I don't recall the name but the MakerBot wouldn't do the job. Something about how the one he uses keeps the plastic at a higher temp necessary for the pressures this thing is going to be put under. I'm not all up to speed on 3D printers, but I think the jist of it is that this doesn't mean you can make one on a cheaper model and have it function...yet.

 

Second, it's not completely 3D printed. In addition to the metal plate added to meet the requirements of needing to be detectable in airport scanners, it also has a metal firing pin.

 

As for the OP's questions:

1) Once the longevity issue can be solved, I'd have no problem with a printed gun part vs injection molded part.

 

2) Definitely not at the current level. When they are as good or better than what we use today, sure.

 

3) No. I pay retail because multiple people have used their time, materials and equipment to design it, make it and deliver it. If I'm using my printer with my plastic and my time, I would only be willing to pay for the design efforts. Plans will become open source and crowd-sourced for improvements/perfection, eliminating the need to compensate anyone for their design time.

 

4) It's a legitimate concern that people who shouldn't have firearms can make them at home, but they can do that today. There's nothing that really stops a criminal from making a firearm now using old-school blacksmithing skills, but it's difficult, time consuming, and expensive. AutoCAD+mil/lathe makes it easier and less time consuming, but still expensive. 3D printing makes it easy, still somewhat time consuming, and cheap. In the end, no regular criminal is going to bother with a 3D printer when they can get a Jennings on the corner for $50. Why waste time and money on some printer, computer, special plastic, learning the software, then risk it blowing up in your hand? Just go steal a real one.

 

The bigger concern to me is someone defeating security check points, especially when multiple parties are working to do so. One perp carries a single bullet past the control point (probably not too hard) while another takes the firing pin and plastic parts, that thanks to limitless design capabilities may look nothing like a traditional firearm (.380 portable DVD player, anyone?). No one piece of metal is enough to set off the detectors, or if it does, is small enough to be hidden in a legit piece of metal (Zippo lighter, steel shanked shoe, jewelry...). Need more bullets smuggled through? Make multiple trips and stash them, or involve more people.

As for the machine and the size these parts are a heat gun would work just as well. And the Makerbot is actually already enclosed so I am sure keeping a temp of 165 would be no problem. This is just to keep the plastic soft for just a bit longer so it doesn't harden between passes, better layer bond. I have been following 3D printing a little bit since he had the first machine repossessed when the company didn't like that he was making AR lowers and mags with it.

The latest versions do have a metal firing pin, that can be any metal rod. Older versions don't, as it is a single shot right now, it doesn't need to last.

With question 3 I guess I should have phrased the build party into the question itself. I meant that as would you pay someone full retail, given they would last, for using their printer and printing materials to just print it out right there. Similar how you can pay a machine shop to press the start button on a cnc to finish out a 80% lower.

I do agree on your concerns of getting past a checkpoint with it. Though as for disguises this can already be achieved with AOWs that look like other things. Not to mention I don't frequent businesses (including airports) that forbid firearms. I don't even carry in TN, because of the logistics of getting to classes for CCW permit, but I did open carry in AL and the principal of it keeps me away from them.