New restrictions on mail order black powder arms.

[Guest Speaking Knight]

Last week, I tried to order a closeout Knight muzzleloader from the Sportsmans Guide. They originally accepted my order, but emailed me back in a few hours stating that Tennessee in a restricted area and the gun could not be shipped to me. I looked at some other sites to see if Sportsmans Guide was mistaken. Some others are showing this and some aren't. I suggest that we all contact our legistators and voice our displeasure. Sure, we can still buy stuff from Tennessee merchants in a face to face transaction, but we miss out on closeout deals and guns that the Wal-Marts just don't carry. Cabelas hasn't put up the notice yet, but I'm betting they will.

[Mark@Sea]

What sites show Tennessee to be restricted?

[Guest Spuds]

Think it's just a SG thing, they are notorious for restricting stuff that need not be.

[molonlabetn]

Pretty soon we'll have to fill out a Form 1 just to build a potato-gun...

[Guest abailey362]

i thought that a potato gun needed an AOW stamp

[HanSolo]

i thought that a potato gun needed an AOW stamp

Only if the barrel is less than 40 inches.

[Reservoir Dog]

Huh. Every site (dealing w/ black powder firearms) that I looked at stated that they cannot ship black powder firearms to Tennessee. We are lumped in with all the commie states.

I did a search of the TCA, but I could not find any law concerning shipping black powder firearms to TN.

[TripleDigitRide]

I did not know this was the case. If I remember correctly, xdshooter ordered a BP revolver not long ago. I didn't hear/see him mention any issues with shipping.

[Reservoir Dog]

One website had this notice:

Notice: The sale of all black powder firearms and ammunition is regulated by law in the following areas: Michigan, Illinois, California, Hawaii, New Jersey, Rhode Island, Tennessee, and Puerto Rico. Shipping is either illegal or requires some type of license or document exchange. In either case, we do not ship blackpowder firearms to these areas. Check your local and state laws before ordering.

I still can't find anything in the TCA. Maybe I am missing something.

[Mark@Sea]

If anybody can find out more about this, I'd like to know, and would like to know what politician(s) are responsible. I'll make it a personal crusade to get them de-elected.

[Guest gunslinger707]

My son ordered two in June from Cabela's did'nt have a problem getting them then.He recieved them direct via UPS.

[Mike.357]

when did this supposedly happen?

BP firearms are not regulated, there is no restriction on them as far as sales or shipping.

[Guest Speaking Knight]

I contacted my state Represenative (Henry Finscher) and was told that the only bill that had passed and taken effect was a "Replica Firearms" bill that was supposed to be about "toy" guns. It is in the Tennessee Code Annotated @ 39-17-13.62 and I don't see any language in the bill that would apply except the word "replica". Most of our modern black powder arms could be called a replica. In this case, if this is the offending law, I think it was an unintended consequence. He promised to look into it further. The wording needs to be changed so that blackpowder arms are specificly excluded.

[Guest Speaking Knight]

The "replica" Law took effect 7/1/2008.

[Reservoir Dog]

That new law talks about displaying a replica/imitation firearms in a threatening manner. I see nothing in here that prohibits the shipment of BP firearms into TN. I have no idea why someone is saying that, because of this new law, you can't ship BP firearms to TN.

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13, is amended by adding the following new section thereto:

§ 39-17-1362.

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

(1) "Imitation firearm" means an object or device substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to a firearm, as defined in §39-11-106(a), as to lead a reasonable person to perceive that the object or device is such a firearm; and

(2) "Public place" means a place to which the public or a group of persons has access and includes, but is not limited to, highways, transportation facilities, schools, places of amusement, parks, places of business, playgrounds and hallways, lobbies and other portions of apartment houses and hotels not constituting rooms or apartments designed for actual residence; an act is deemed to occur in a public place if it produces its proscribed consequences in a public place, even if the person engaging in the prohibited conduct is not in a public place.

( A person commits an offense who intentionally displays in a threatening manner an imitation firearm in a public place in such a way that would cause a reasonable person to fear bodily injury to themselves or another.

© It is a defense to a violation of subsection ( if the imitation firearm is displayed in connection with or as a part of any justifiable defense as set forth in Title 39, Chapter 11, Part 6.

(d) A violation of this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

(e) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit prosecution under any other provision of law.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect July 1, 2008, the public welfare requiring it.

[towerclimber37]

This sounds suspiciously like someone "speaking power to truth"...

hey, lets muddy up the water by making people DOUBT that they can do this...pretty soon they'll believe it......

[Guest Speaking Knight]

Reservoir Dog, I don't really see the connection either. I don't see anything about banning the sale or distribution. But I'm not a lawyer. Rep Finscher said he would look into the matter further. It is my hope that the "Sportsmans Guide" is just over reacting and that my bad experience is just an isolated incident. But, if it is not the case, I thought I should tell the folks who should be interested. Has anyone here been able to mailorder anything since 7-1-08?

I

[Reservoir Dog]

It is my hope that the "Sportsmans Guide" is just over reacting and that my bad experience is just an isolated incident.

Yeah, I hope so. The only thing is, I found other BP websites that had the same prohibition about shipping to TN.

It must be something else we haven't found yet. Either that, or some companies are seriously misinterpreting the new law.

[TripleDigitRide]

I don't know about black powder, but I can tell you that slingshots can not be shipped to Knoxville, Tennessee.

It's the truth.

[towerclimber37]

what I want to know is who keeps adding these dumbass laws??? who sponsored this bill?

[Mike.357]

slingshots can not be shipped to Knoxville, Tennessee.

its a conspiracy. My guess is Walmart* is behind it all. You can buy slingshots there, good ones too.

[Reservoir Dog]

what I want to know is who keeps adding these dumbass laws??? who sponsored this bill?

If TCA 39-17-1362 is the source of the problem with this black powder issue, then here is what the bill said:

SENATE BILL NO. 2719

By Norris

Substituted for: House Bill No. 2589

By John Deberry, Hardaway, Towns, Ulysses Jones, Brown, Shaw, Bone,

Favors, Sontany

I still think there is something else causing the prohibition. I can't see how a reasonable person can determine that you cannot ship BP stuff to TN because of this law. But, I've been wrong before. Edited August 4, 2008 by Reservoir Dog
no spell well

[Guest Speaking Knight]

I found this on a forum on the North American Hunting Club Web site :

Shiloh Posted: Monday, June 23, 2008 11:15 AM Joined: 9/19/2007

Posts: 1762

Below was e-mailed to me by Buford Tune and from TNFLAC this morning.

BELOW IS MORE INFORMATION FROM THE TENNESSEE FIREARMS ASSOCIATION (WHICH YOU "SHOULD" BE A MEMBER OF!) AFTER READING THIS YOU WILL NOW UNDERSTAND WHY I ENCOURAGE YOU TO TAKE PART IN THE LAW MAKING PROCESS AND CALL YOUR REPS AND SENATORS AND RAISE "HELL" ABOUT THEM VOTING FOR STUFF LIKE THIS AND NOT USING COMMON SENSE!

REMEMBER IT IS YOUR RIGHT TO CALL YOUR LOCAL REPS AND SENATORS AND ASK THEM WHY THEY VOTED FOR SOMETHING LIKE THIS AND "NEVER" ASK THE OPINION OF THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED THEM IN OFFICE!! SO ONCE AGAIN I ASK YOU TO "PLEASE" CALL, WRITE OR SET AN APPOINTMENT TO SEE YOUR REP OR SENATOR AND PROFESSIONALLY TALK TO THEM ABOUT "COMMON SENSE"!

IF WE DO NOT I WONDER WHAT ELSE WILL SLIP BY US BEFORE WE ACT ON STUPID LAWS AS THIS ONE!

PLEASE GO TO http://www.appstraining.com/TFA.htm AND PRINT OUT AN APPLICATION FOR THE TFA AND JOIN TODAY TO FIGHT THIS STUPID BS!!

Tennessee Firearms Association, Inc.

Legislative Action Committee

Tennessee Legislature takes action to combat risk of "fake guns" - and this is more important to Tennessee citizens than repealing existing laws which violate the 2nd Amendment?

Of course its not more important. What is different is that this is something that was requested by law enforcement (apparently) rather than voters and gun owners.

Here is the text of the new law which makes it a crime for your child to purchase look-a-like guns, including BB guns, air-soft guns, etc., and which makes it a crime to display such a toy gun in a public place in a "threatening" manner. I guess we don't want someone to have a stroke.

Senate Bill 2719 - By Norris

House Bill 2589 - By DeBerry J.

AN ACT to amend Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 17, relative to imitation firearms.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF TENNESSEE:

SECTION 1. Tennessee Code Annotated, Title 39, Chapter 17, Part 13, is amended by adding the following new section thereto:

§ 39-17-1362.

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires, "imitation firearm" means an object or device substantially similar in coloration and overall appearance to a firearm, as defined in § 39-11-106(a), as to

lead a reasonable person to perceive that the object or device is such a firearm, including but not limited to, a BB gun, toy gun, or a replica of a firearm.

( A person commits an offense who intentionally displays in a threatening manner an imitation firearm in a public place, as defined in § 39-11-106(a).

© It is a defense to a violation of subsection ( if the display of the imitation firearm is:

(1) Used in any justifiable defense as set forth in title 39, chapter 11, part 6;

(2) Displayed or exposed in the course of commerce, including commercial film or video productions, or for service, repair, or restoration of the imitation firearm;

(3) Used in a theatrical production, a motion picture, video, television, or stage production;

(4) Used in conjunction with a professional or amateur sporting event or competition;

(5) Used in conjunction with lawful hunting, trapping, fishing, camping or sport shooting;

(6) Used at a regional fair or other similar activity;

(7) Used in military, civil defense, or civic activities, including flag ceremonies, color guards, parades, award presentations, historical reenactments, and memorials;

(8) Used for public displays authorized by public or private schools or displays that are part of a museum collection; or

(9) Used in an organized parade, procession or other organized ceremonial event.

(d) A violation of subsection ( is a Class B misdemeanor.

(e) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit prosecution

under any other provision of law.

SECTION 2. This act shall take effect July 1, 2008, the public welfare

requiring it.

Its really a shame that we have a General Assembly that thinks this type of law is required for the "public welfare" but we cannot allow hikers and campers to defend themselves from bear and other predators, we cannot allow law abiding citizens to protect themselves and their families in and around restaurants that serve alcohol, in public parks, at recreational facilities, on or near school grounds, in the parking lots of their places of employment, in malls, at movie theaters, or, as a consequence of this patchwork of prohibitions, in many instances while going to and coming from these locations. No, we cannot allow someone to be ignorantly alarmed by a fake gun but over a span of 14 years we are unable to relax the infringements on the rights of citizens under and in furtherance of the 2nd Amendment.

Also, what does this overwhelming support evidence of the position of the NRA on such legislation? NRA has the power, ostensibly, to kill a bill much easier than to pass one (particularly with Speaker Naifeh abusing the House rules). How is it that this bill, which should have not seen sunlight, came through without meaningful NRA opposition?

The problem is that law enforcement has more of an impact on the legislation that is actually passed than citizens do or even the NRA much less TFA's grassroots members. Whose fault is that? In my opinion, its the fault of the individual citizen.

When citizens are less concerned about their rights, including their Second Amendment rights, than law enforcement are about the potential of someone being scared or confused by a toy gun you have to just shake your head and wonder where the mountains of apathy are originating from? Citizens cannot join organizations like NRA, GOA or even TFA and just think that the organization is going to handle it. In many respects these organizations exist as a connection for but should not exist as a substitute for individual responsibility. I have heard too often someone complain about legislation or the status quo but when I ask them what they did to help change the response is that they joined an organization. Joining is a step in the direction of individual and organized political action but it is not the end of the effort. Too often, people think - with TFA being a good example - that just joining is enough. Its not "enough" its just the beginning.

Laws will change when politicians (I have said before we have too few statesmen) feel that their chances of being "re-elected" to office are in jeopardy. That sensation arises when politicians feel negative pressure from their constituents (they generally could care less what your opinion is if you are in another district) regarding their performance. To get their attention you have to talk to them and let them know you are not happy with their performance and inability to get the groceries home.

You think its bad now, just wait until either of the candidates for president get elected and Congress goes even more liberal this year.

For future reference, here are the House and Senate Votes. Note that a "no" vote would have been the right vote....

FLOOR VOTE: AS AMENDED PASSAGE ON THIRD CONSIDERATION 5/21/2008 OUTCOME OF VOTE: Passed Ayes...............................................76 Noes...............................................19 Representatives voting aye were: Armstrong, Baird, Bass, Bibb, Bone, Borchert, Briley, Brooks H, Brooks K, Brown, Buck, Camper, Casada, Cobb C, Cobb J, Coley, Cooper, Curtiss, Dean, DeBerry J, DeBerry L, DuBois, Eldridge, Favors, Fincher, Fitzhugh, Floyd, Ford, Fraley, Gilmore, Hardaway, Harmon, Harrison, Hawk, Hood, Johnson C, Johnson P, Jones S, Jones U, Kelsey, Kernell, Litz, Lollar, Maddox, Maggart, Matheny, Matlock, McCormick, McDaniel, McDonald, McManus, Miller, Moore, Mumpower, Overbey, Pinion, Pitts, Pruitt, Richardson, Rinks, Roach, Shaw, Shepard, Sontany, Swafford, Tidwell, Tindell, Todd, Towns, Turner L, Turner M, Vaughn, West, Williams, Yokley, Mr. Speaker Naifeh -- 76. Representatives voting no were: Bell, Campfield, Crider, Dunn, Ferguson, Gresham, Harwell, Hensley, Hill, Lundberg, Lynn, McCord, Montgomery, Niceley, Rowland, Sargent, Watson, Windle, Winningham -- 19.

The votes in the Senate were unfortunately uniformly in favor of the legislation:

SB2719 by Norris FLOOR VOTE: CONCUR IN HOUSE AMEND# 4 5/21/2008 OUTCOME OF VOTE: Passed Ayes...............................................32 Noes................................................0 Senators voting aye were: Beavers, Berke, Black, Bunch, Burchett, Burks, Crowe, Finney L, Finney R, Ford, Harper, Haynes, Henry, Herron, Jackson, Johnson, Ketron, Kurita, Kyle, Marrero, McNally, Norris, Roller, Southerland, Stanley, Tate, Tracy, Watson, Wilder, Williams, Woodson, Mr. Speaker Ramsey -- 32.

I like my guns towed and crew-served! http://www.9thkyus.com/ http://www.blockaderunner.com/ http://www.nps.gov/stri/

[fizik]

Has anyone emailed any of the companies that won't ship to Tennessee? That seems like a logical step I'd take if no one else has yet.

[Reservoir Dog]

Well, it is definitely not the new "replica" law. I found a February 2006 thread on The High Road regarding the shipping restriction to TN. Nobody had an answer in that thread, either. So apparently, this has been going on for a few years now.

I sent an email off to one of the companies that restricts shipping. If I get a response, I will post the info.