29% Think Armed Revolution Needed

[Guest Darth Maul]

Okay, I’m with you. Where do we start? Give us some direction. How do we get the majority of the democrats, liberals, illegals, and those that want government handouts to switch over to our side?

That's a question that needs to be posed to leader of some sort or someone who claims to be in charge. Both of which I am not. Secondly, I have absolutely no interest in convincing anyone of anything or trying to get people to switch over to any side.

I'm an average joe who sees the writing on the wall. This country is being shat on and forced down a oneway street by a tyranical government. While I have zero desire to lead anyone or anything, I will gladly do my part.

I took an oath to defend the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. While I also swore to follow orders given by the president of the united States, I will not follow or comply with any orders that directly conflict with my defense of the Constitution (unconstitutional orders).

And the enemy today is domestic, it is the government of the united states, Barack Obama, Homeland Security etc. Edited May 5, 2013 by Darth Maul

[Randall53]

I know we've got to try, but I think the voting booth is a losing proposition in the long run due to the liberal push and apparent success to gain voters through brainwashing and dependency and the pathetic RINO'S and the movement of the Conservative party to the left as time passes.  I also feel an armed revolution would not end well either.  I feel that eventually it will come down to unconstitutional laws being passed and the showdown being hundreds of thousands, if not millions, refusing to comply when the deadlines to "turn them all in" comes.

[Guest Darth Maul]

I know we've got to try, but I think the voting booth is a losing proposition in the long run due to the liberal push and apparent success to gain voters through brainwashing and dependency and the pathetic RINO'S and the movement of the Conservative party to the left as time passes.  I also feel an armed revolution would not end well either.  I feel that eventually it will come down to unconstitutional laws being passed and the showdown being hundreds of thousands, if not millions, refusing to comply when the deadlines to "turn them all in" comes.

I feel the same exact way.

[Moped]

I’m the one throwing out those examples? The title of this thread is “29% Think Armed Revolution Needed”. What are we discussing? Are you implying that the mere presence of firearms while trying to overthrow our government will work out and no innocent people will be hurt?

I honestly, have no idea what you are talking about!  Never in my post did I say anything about attacking innocents.  I was speaking about those that resist, whether wrong or right.  Nor am I espousing resistance, though I do think our Government is heading down the road of fascism and all it encompasses.  Both of our mainstream parties are taking this tact.  If your views are outside the mainstream, you will be marginalized, like Ron Paul was. and like the Tea Party is and you will learn to like or at least live with it, if you want freedom of some sort.

 

Let me make this a bit more simple.  Maybe I am not getting my point across.  Obviously, you are not getting it and if so maybe others aren't getting it either.  If you put up armed resistance, then the Government is going to respond with overwhelming force to put that resistance down, as they did in Boston with 9,000 LEO's going door to door looking for a 19 year old terrorist. LET ME BE CLEAR HERE!!!  I AM NOT SAYING THE TERRORISTS IN BOSTON WERE RIGHT OR HAD A REASON TO DO WHAT THEY DID. THEY DIDN'T AND I HOPE THOSE INVOLVED GET WHAT'S COMING TO THEM!!!  I AM SAYING THE GOVERNMENT WILL USE THE SAME TACTICS AS WERE USED IN BOSTON, THE MOMENT THEY SENSE ANY RESISTANCE!!! It will be a very public show of force, with the media acting as the Government propaganda machine, that is purely designed to intimidate the population.  After the resistance is put down, then  the Government will start looking at everyone else that might harbor any illusions of further resistance or might be in sympathy to those that resisted.  In most cases, questioning will suffice to to quell anymore unrest, but for those that might be still suspected of being a danger to the Government, there will be arrests, trials and incarceration.  

 

For those of you that think you are going to put up some sort of resistance, then this is what you are going to face.  You had better take a lesson from the Government reaction to one terrorist in Boston, before you decide on this course of action. A small group with a bunch of semi-automatic sporting rifles will be steamrolled pretty quickly. 

 

Personally, I think at best, we can put off the socialization of our country.  We started down this road back at the turn of the 20th Century and we have not stopped.  The days of voting for change are just about over with. Conservatives are outnumbered, as are the haves.  Those that are providing for our country (actually paying taxes) are just about outnumbered by those that receive handouts from the Government.  I also think armed resistance will be futile, because  there is no way to be properly organize such resistance.  It would be quashed as I have stated already, the moment those, that are in power, get wind of it.  And even if armed resistance were successful, what would we end up with afterwards?  Most of the time it seems a dictator or junta is placed in power and how would that be any better?  Like or hate it, we are going down the road to socialism and probably, at some point, chaos.

[TMF]

So neither of you believe that our government is out of control and has far over stepped it's limitations? You're ok with government controlling healthcare and education? You're ok with the corrupt bailouts of banks and other institutions? You're ok with checkpoints along our highways? No problem with arming our enemies, fast and furious, Bengahzi and all of the repeadted lies and cover ups? The constant attempt at disarming citizens with so-called gun control measures? The utter disreguard for the Constitution and everything it stands for? The unconstitutional executive orders, bills and laws being passed and attempted to be passed?


If you think for one second that this current government does not need to be overthrown or removed from power than I suggest that you may not call yourself a patriot at all. You merely are afraid of forfeiting the livestyle to which you are currently accustom to.


From reading your posts I honestly feel you don't truly understand what the Constitution stands for. I think you believe it protects whatever administration and politician that the people vote into office. That is not so. The Constitution is there as a guideline to protect the people from any government such as the one currently running this country

And the Declaration of Independence clearly says:


" That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the

Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new

Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing

its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their

Safety and Happiness."


There is no doubt whatsoever that those words were written for a day such as today. Make no mistake about that.


So, just to clarify. If I read your post correctly, no matter what atrocities this government commits against the people, the citizens, the Constitution, no matter how many freedoms and rights are stripped from us illegally and unconstitutionally you're saying you will defend the institution of governemnt itself in the dillussion that you are protecting your country? I just want to make I'm not missing your point.

I'm glad you are so solid in your convictions; I guess we should expect you to fire the first shots any day now.

I'm solid in mine. I will continue to fight an overbearing gov't the way our fore fathers designed; at the polls. If our government decides to suspend elections and pass laws without representation then I'll most certainly fight. Until then the problem is your fellow Americans who are voting for socialist encroachment. We must fight that ideology by education our friends, family and children.

I fought for my country. I am a veteran. I have risked my life and taken the lives of those who fought against us. I am not afraid to fight again, but it will be for the right reasons. We have a system in place to remove our government that doesn't involve seeing our sons and fathers killed. Edited May 5, 2013 by TMF

[Guest Darth Maul]

I'm a veteran as well. Clearly we have a different view of what the right reasons are. Also you and DaveTn see the solution being with votes. Hard to with that way when the entire process is rigged. 

 

And yes, I'm very solid in my convictions. The current administration is the enemy. The first shot? Not likely. But when the time comes I will do whatever is neccessary. That you can be sure of, and it won't be at a useless ballot box.

 

Anyone who thinks their vote actually matter is naive and a fool. Especially when it came to the past two elections. Go do a little research on Wood County, Ohio. See how Obama won 108% of the votes from that county. Yes, 106,000 people voted oit of 98,000 eligible registered voters. Figure that one out.

[DaveTN]

 
And yes, I'm very solid in my convictions. The current administration is the enemy. The first shot? Not likely. But when the time comes I will do whatever is neccessary. That you can be sure of, and it won't be at a useless ballot box.

So since you don't like who was elected by the American people its time for an overthrow? What do you think the American people will be doing while you are busy with that?

 

 
Anyone who thinks their vote actually matter is naive and a fool.

It matters more than someone theatening us because they have a gun. That has been proven time and time again.

[TMF]

I'm a veteran as well. Clearly we have a different view of what the right reasons are.

Very different. I can promise you that if such a day comes I won't hesitate to pick up a rifle, but it won't be to overthrow a freely elected government; it will be to put folks like you in the ground.

[Chucktshoes]

I'm a veteran as well. Clearly we have a different view of what the right reasons are.

Very different. I can promise you that if such a day comes I won't hesitate to pick up a rifle, but it won't be to overthrow a freely elected government; it will be to put folks like you in the ground.

After all, you will only be following orders. ;)

[Guest Darth Maul]

Very different. I can promise you that if such a day comes I won't hesitate to pick up a rifle, but it won't be to overthrow a freely elected government; it will be to put folks like you in the ground.

You,d be more than welcome to try.

[RobertNashville]

Well since you all are ready to start shooting each other I can tell how THIS rebellion would go...all the government needs to do is sit back and let you all take each other out.  :screwy:

 

It does at lest provide a perfect example of just how completely stupid any talk of a armed rebellion is.

 

"Three Percenters"...really???  I doubt there is 3-thousandths of a percent out there that can even agree on "who" the enemy is let alone what needs to be done.

Edited May 5, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Guest 6.8 AR]

No one is ready to start shooting anyone. This thread and the people participating are showing their

concerns about what the future holds, with varying opinions. That's all I see. And Robert, I agree. We

may be mincing words or definitions.

 

I think all of us agree that you should always try to take a peaceful way to fight tyranny, by using the

ballot process. That's what the Founders fought that war for us to be able to do, before any other

process is considered. And that problem that remains to this day, is that we have not been good,

consistent stewards to the Constitution, for decades.

 

The question in my mind is when do we determine one way has completely failed and when does another

route get charted? I'm of the mind that in a global economic collapse, all Hell will break loose and we

will have run out of options, then. It's my own personal opinion that that 8.8 million against the 30 or

so million, the 8.8 will be the more motivated unless the military is part of the latter. I really hate to think

about this, but you have to admit, with all the guns that have been purchased since just 2008, there

must be many more who have the same concern.

 

We have intentional destruction of the moral, ethical and legal leadership, along with the economic

disaster facing us. If all that doesn't change very soon, the options will have been eliminated. Political

ideology from both major parties is hurting the republic, right now. One has become the other, and the

other has become more radical. They both can kill the republic, easily, with one only being slower than

the other.

 

Something will give.

[DaveTN]

I had to laugh, I was running through the channels tonight and Bill Maher was saying that 44% of Republicans think an armed revolution might be necessary to protect liberties in the next few years.

 

Lawrence O’Donnell said gun ownership is a minority activity. He said gun ownership is declining. He said gun sales are up because of fanatic collectors that have 48 guns when they used to have four.

 

 Do these guys make up this preposterous BS just to get people to watch their shows? I guess their target audience is too ignorant to question those statements.

 

 

[Mike.357]

I honestly don't see how voting will effectively change anything in this country ever again.

Vote for option A or vote for option B nets the same result.

 

 

i think I will just go get in line and stick my hand out too.

[JayC]

Just to point out, but you didn't take an oath to uphold what the majority of American's wanted at any given point in time, you took an oath to uphold the Constitution.  Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny, and while 50% or 60% might agree with that tyranny it doesn't make it any less unconstitutional or evil.

 

Our 'social contract' that we were born into (and we can get into how screwed up that entire idea is if you want), states that we have certain inalienable rights which come from our Creator, or our humanity, and no other man or group of men have the right to take away or infringe upon those rights...   The founding fathers of this country, gave up a very limited subset of those rights, to society and only after being found guilty by a jury of their peers could their rights be infringed upon.

 

So you can easily have a 'freely' elected 'government' that violates God given rights, and the restrictions placed on said government in the constitution, and still have a government that morally can be overthrown.   Remember democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote :)  Good to know you're with the wolves if push comes to shove ;)

 

Also, remember just because somebody says it's "legal" or "justified" under the law doesn't make it so...  Every Jew killed in German - a 'freely elected government -  were killed legally.  55 million Soviets were convicted of "crimes against the Soviet people" and executed between 1917, and 1987, all of which were "legal" killings, by a "freely" elected government.

 

I just got done watching a documentary on Waco, you know it was 20 years ago last month that our federal government killed 80+ citizens including 20+ little children, all over a reported tax dispute.  How many of those guys lost their jobs or went to jail?  None, not a single person.

 

I just watched as a large american city - the site of the Boston Tea Party, on the 238th anniversary of the 'shot heard around the world', was placed in an unconstitutional state of martial law and police officers none of which seemed to have any problem violating their oaths, illegally forced law abiding citizens from their homes at gunpoint, and searched those homes without warrants, to 'keep people safe' from the scary "terrorist".

 

Reminding myself what was the number 1 unnatural cause of death in the 20th century, democide - the legal killing of citizens by their own government.

 

And you feel the need to say that people concerned about their own government turning against them, and posing not only a threat to their lives, but their liberty and freedom is somehow not a threat even worth discussion...  When a government starts to kill citizens - as our own government has - with no due process of law, that even if "freely elected" overthrow isn't a valid option?  Please.

 

It's no wonder that 29% of the voters are worried about an armed conflict with our government...  and I for the life of me can't understand why anybody who swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution would threaten other patriots for wanting to defend their freedoms and liberties if push comes to shove.

 

Very different. I can promise you that if such a day comes I won't hesitate to pick up a rifle, but it won't be to overthrow a freely elected government; it will be to put folks like you in the ground.

Edited May 6, 2013 by JayC

[TMF]

After all, you will only be following orders. ;)

Well, kinda moot since I won't be putting on a uniform ever again unless something drastic happens. I can confidently say that I have never followed nor been issued an unlawful order during my military career. Had I found myself in such a scenario I wouldn't have followed it, nor would any of my peers or immediate officers.

I can also say with great certainty that if Obama declares himself supreme ruler tomorrow and suspends the electoral process I'll be taking up arms long before any of the keyboard rangers rattling their sabres about rebellion. I don't see that happening, but you never know I guess. So long as the American people have elected our overbearing government I will not use violence to change it. Once again, if you have a problem with the government you should be blaming your fellow Americans, not the government.

[DaveTN]

It's no wonder that 29% of the voters are worried about an armed conflict with our government...  and I for the life of me can't understand why anybody who swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution would threaten other patriots for wanting to defend their freedoms and liberties if push comes to shove.

When you put people that are advocating an armed overthrow of our government on notice that they will not be successful because they do not have the support of the American people; you are protecting the Constitution and more importantly our nation.

But all this is really silliness just for discussion anyway. Someone feels that someone doesn’t interpret the Constitution the same way they do; and they are ready to stand against the mightiest military on earth. Yea right…. On the internet maybe.

[TMF]

Just to point out, but you didn't take an oath to uphold what the majority of American's wanted at any given point in time, you took an oath to uphold the Constitution. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny, and while 50% or 60% might agree with that tyranny it doesn't make it any less unconstitutional or evil.

Our 'social contract' that we were born into (and we can get into how screwed up that entire idea is if you want), states that we have certain inalienable rights which come from our Creator, or our humanity, and no other man or group of men have the right to take away or infringe upon those rights... The founding fathers of this country, gave up a very limited subset of those rights, to society and only after being found guilty by a jury of their peers could their rights be infringed upon.

So you can easily have a 'freely' elected 'government' that violates God given rights, and the restrictions placed on said government in the constitution, and still have a government that morally can be overthrown. Remember democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Liberty is a well armed sheep contesting the vote :) Good to know you're with the wolves if push comes to shove ;)

Also, remember just because somebody says it's "legal" or "justified" under the law doesn't make it so... Every Jew killed in German - a 'freely elected government - were killed legally. 55 million Soviets were convicted of "crimes against the Soviet people" and executed between 1917, and 1987, all of which were "legal" killings, by a "freely" elected government.

I just got done watching a documentary on Waco, you know it was 20 years ago last month that our federal government killed 80+ citizens including 20+ little children, all over a reported tax dispute. How many of those guys lost their jobs or went to jail? None, not a single person.

I just watched as a large american city - the site of the Boston Tea Party, on the 238th anniversary of the 'shot heard around the world', was placed in an unconstitutional state of martial law and police officers none of which seemed to have any problem violating their oaths, illegally forced law abiding citizens from their homes at gunpoint, and searched those homes without warrants, to 'keep people safe' from the scary "terrorist".

Reminding myself what was the number 1 unnatural cause of death in the 20th century, democide - the legal killing of citizens by their own government.

And you feel the need to say that people concerned about their own government turning against them, and posing not only a threat to their lives, but their liberty and freedom is somehow not a threat even worth discussion... When a government starts to kill citizens - as our own government has - with no due process of law, that even if "freely elected" overthrow isn't a valid option? Please.

It's no wonder that 29% of the voters are worried about an armed conflict with our government... and I for the life of me can't understand why anybody who swore an oath to protect and defend the constitution would threaten other patriots for wanting to defend their freedoms and liberties if push comes to shove.
]

You're gonna have a hard time convincing any reasonable person that the oath they took implies they should violently overthrow the government as soon as the oath taker interprets something to be unconstitutional. If that were the case there would be a lot of dead oath takers out there, and I can't help but acknowledge the irony of being accused of not upholding my oath as the sabre rattlers live and breathe. Go be a martyr if you think it is the right thing to do. I will continue to use the polls to make my voice heard.

[DaveTN]

Have any of you advocating the overthrow of our government by force watch the documentaries on HBO called VICE? Watch the first segment about the Philippines if you want to see what elections would be like in your world. This isn’t TV or fictional movies and books; it’s the real deal.

[JayC]

I'm with you, I don't think we're there yet...  not because we're 'allowed' to vote for the lesser of two evils...  although any disruption of that process would also cross my own red line.  

 

I'm still officially a fence sitter, and I'm not advocating an armed rebellion, only that it's just as silly to make threats of taking up arms against patriots, as it is for 'internet commandos' wanting to take up arms against the government.

 

But, I do find it offensive to belittle valid concerns over possible future actions that may cause there to be a valid reason to take up arms...  I also hope in the same thought that I never live to see that day, because when it happens it will be the worse kinda hell any of us have ever seen in our life times.

 

But, make no mistake IMHO the road we're headed down as a country leads right to that fight, the house to house searches in Boston, really concern me, not so much the fact they happened, but over a 1,000 police officers and national guard troops not only stood by and allowed it to happen, but actively participated in the unlawful activities, and not a single reported case of one of those men refusing those unlawful orders.  That along with a lot of other incidents doesn't give a very positive outlook on the future of liberty in this country.

 

We're not there yet, but it's not out of reason to think we could get there in the not so distant future.

 

You're gonna have a hard time convincing any reasonable person that the oath they took implies they should violently overthrow the government as soon as the oath taker interprets something to be unconstitutional. If that were the case there would be a lot of dead oath takers out there, and I can't help but acknowledge the irony of being accused of not upholding my oath as the sabre rattlers live and breathe. Go be a martyr if you think it is the right thing to do. I will continue to use the polls to make my voice heard.

 

[Guest ThePunisher]

 
"Three Percenters"...really???  I doubt there is 3-thousandths of a percent out there that can even agree on "who" the enemy is let alone what needs to be done.

Everyone here at TGO can't even agree to unite behind someone whom might have a chance to try and defeat these commies in power.

[Chucktshoes]

In case you were needing another example of why some of us have no trust in the government.


http://news.yahoo.com/teenagers-social-media-terrorism-threat-level-hard-assess-131320139.html

“The greatest mystery in life is the human mind. We don’t know what other people do until it becomes known. Our job is to figure it out, but we need indicators to know something’s not right,” says Sgt. Ed Mullins of the New York Police Department, who is also president of the Sergeants Benevolent Association, the city’s second-largest police union.

Using a zero tolerance approach to track domestic terrorists online is the only reasonable way to analyze online threats these days, especially after the Boston Marathon bombing and news that the suspects had subsequently planned to target Times Square in Manhattan, Mullins says. The way law enforcement agencies approach online activity that appears sinister is this: “If you’re not a terrorist, if you’re not a threat, prove it," he says.

“This is the price you pay to live in free society right now. It’s just the way it is,” Mullins adds.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Chucktshoes

[RobertNashville]

I don't need examples...I've never "trusted" the government; it's just a necessary evil.

 

That doesn't mean, however, that I'm going to take up arms against it or against other patriots.

Edited May 6, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Dolomite_supafly]

We have a system in place for change. It may not be going the way you would like but you will not bully anyone into anything with the threat of violence. The same thing will happen to you that has happened to others that have decided to attack our country.

Problem is that system is broke. We all have seen the reports of voter fraud. I have even witnessed it first hand in my small community where there are probably less that 5,000 voters. And if it is happening in my small community then it is widespread. I cannot imagine any precinct having 100% of the vote for any single candidate yet there were several on Philly that had exactly that as well as plenty of other precincts.

I am not saying we take up arms to fix it but we need to definitely figure out a way to prevent those who would vote more than once from doing so. I wish there was a requirement for ALL voters to dip a finger in indelible ink. Doing away with early voting is another thing that would go along way towards preventing voter fraud.

But even if we did fix the problem with voter fraud I believe that we are too far down the road to economic failure to come back. No amount of voting for what is right will prevent what is likely coming. And what is coming has little to do with which party is in power or who is president. For a long time both parties have been buying votes on credit. And we are really close to having to pay for all those votes that have been bought for generations. No matter how many representatives we replace the economic problem is still going to be there with no easy way out of it.

When our government can no longer pay for the votes it buys then, and only then, will those who have been bought will see the error of their ways. But not before those who have worked, and prepared, will have to protect ourselves from those that believe they have a right to what is ours. It will be a matter of class warfare so to speak between those who do have the ability to survive and those who never did. Edited May 6, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly

[JohnC]

Armed revolution would be the absolute last resort. I mean, it would have to be BAD! Govt would have to be like Mao's China, Stalin's Russia, Hitler's Germany, etc.

 

We're not even near a point in which we'd need to take up arms and fight. Our elections still work without too much corruption, so we still have a voice and we can change things if we get off our asses and physically start pressuring these few socialists and communists in our system. Trust me, just like gangsters, there is always a small group in power controlling things. They're the minority (right now they're our wealthy ruling class elites) and we're the majority. If we all stand up, they'll retreat to the secret back rooms like the rat-bastards they are.

 

I think I read it in Rules For Radicals, but somewhere in the book it stated violence basically will turn the sheeple against you since generally they'll side with the peaceful group. When there is violent armed fighting, people will want a quick end to it. So when your enemy is in power, you will just give them the excuse to turn their better weapons on YOU! You'll be slaughtered by real military weapons and equipment. Just look at how Waco, Ruby Ridge, Dorner, the hunt for the recent Boston Bombers, and Terrorists in Iraq in the cities get killed. A square box with paper walls and vinyl siding with you thinking your pile of guns and ammo will be enough against an army of SWAT or Military and all the technology is a joke. Because make no mistake, if you take up arms and start a fight, you WILL be labeled a terrorist by this current administration and you will be hunted as such!

 

That is why most of left-wing socialist and communists chose the long hard road of taking over our education system, media, political system, etc., and indoctrinating and propagandizing us to the point we're at now. They knew if they tried to do it by force, they would be easily killed.

 

Just remember this quote slightly out of context from Rules for Radicals: The essence of Lenin's speeches... "They have the guns and therefore we are for peace and reformation through he ballot. When we have the guns, then it will be through the bullet." And it was.

 

If you think you'll make it in an armed rebellion against a bunch of political elites that have been trained by radicals, and read tactics like this from their favorite dictators and revolutionaries throughout history, you'll only end up dead or wounded and jailed.

 

There is still time to change things peacefully. But that process has to start now.

 

I suggest starting with our education system. We got to take it back. Once you take it back, you'll be cranking out Americans, not indoctrinated socialists and communists. They will go out in to the system and start taking the jobs of the old retiring socialists and communists in education, media, politics, judges, lawyers, news agencies, etc. They will win this battle for you. You'll never have to fight with a single bullet if you do it like that.

 

Otherwise, if we sit on our asses and don't put in the work like the left did to change the system, we lose and they win. Their victory will be because we were too lazy to put in the time and work it takes to secure the future of America as originally intended by our founders for the next generation.