New IDPA Rulebook 7 May

[DMark]

IDPA Rulebook Update

 

To: All IDPA Members From: Joyce Wilson, Executive Director, IDPA Date: Tuesday, April 30th

 

I am proud to announce that the preliminary version of the updated IDPA rulebook will soon be available for member feedback. I realize that it has taken 18 months to see the entire project to completion, however, I have always felt that it was more important to get the whole process right than to just push something through quickly...........

 

 

-  Trust this re-write will be based on the 1996 "original intent" of the these key founders - - - Ken Hackathorn, Walt Rauch, Larry Vickers.

 

-  Hope that it doesn't make IDPA more "IPSC - Like."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[broox]

Maybe they will do away with tactical sequence?

[DMark]

Maybe they will do away with tactical sequence?

 

Now.....,  I wonder who you heard bitching about tactical sequence?  :whistle:

 

I did suggest that tactical sequence be left to the option of the shooter and not required by the COF.

 

Also recommended the following:

 

- All new shooters are "Off The Clock."

- All new shooters take part without concealment.

- Any shooter not an IDPA member will shoot "Out of Competition."  Their scores will only be listed with other OOC shooters and not as part of the overall match results.

- Highest classifications are revoked when one becomes a Senior Shooter. 

- No Running.  Only tactical movement techniques allowed, i.e., "Heed - Toe" method.

- Additional Zero Down hits reduces overall time by 0.5 seconds for each hit.

 

And of Course.....

 

- No Sponsorship Shirts!    :devil:

[AdotOdot4]

Cowboy action division :wub:

[dlmeadows]

Wonder how many pages it's going to be. Im guessing 300

[Spiffy]

In for the great wailing and gashing of teeth!!!      

 

 

 

I hold no hope for the Custom Optics Division :(

[Guest sbcman]

IDPA Rulebook Update

 

To: All IDPA Members From: Joyce Wilson, Executive Director, IDPA Date: Tuesday, April 30th

 

I am proud to announce that the preliminary version of the updated IDPA rulebook will soon be available for member feedback. I realize that it has taken 18 months to see the entire project to completion, however, I have always felt that it was more important to get the whole process right than to just push something through quickly...........

 

 

-  Trust this re-write will be based on the 1996 "original intent" of the these key founders - - - Ken Hackathorn, Walt Rauch, Larry Vickers.

 

-  Hope that it doesn't make IDPA more "IPSC - Like."

 

Interesting you mentioned the IPSC thing. At the indoor nationals, Joyce specifically mentioned that while IDPA needed some changes, it wasn't going to turn into "IPSC lite". I have no idea what that means.

 

[DMark]

Interesting you mentioned the IPSC thing. At the indoor nationals, Joyce specifically mentioned that while IDPA needed some changes, it wasn't going to turn into "IPSC lite". I have no idea what that means.

By the early 1990s, there was a realization that IPSC had become such a game that it no longer had any application to what happens when real shooting breaks out.

Thus, some of us who where there when IDPA began back in 1996 are concerned that we are getting away from the first sentence on page 1 of the current rulebook that IDPA is, "..., a shooting sport that simulates self-defense scenarios and real life encounter."

In the early IDPA matches the rationale "Would this Happen" and "Would You Do That" in a real gunfight where taken VERY Seriously!

The Failure To Do Right was the enforcement hammer to keep everybody in the combat mindset and used often when inappropriate techniques were used by a shooter. Running around using the "IPSC Sprint" support hand off the firearm, strong hand holding the firearm high, arms pumping while RUNNING to the next firing point was often pointed out as an example of what would get FTDR penalties. Today, its starting to look like a track meet at some IDPA matches. The most notorious example was the picture from the 2011 Nationals showing a shooter running to her next firing point with her back to the threats - - - AND holding her firearm over her left shoulder pointing it behind her.

After Hackathorn, Rauch, and Vickers left the BoD, the focus on tactics began to slip away.

And its worth noting that all three of those guys had been in Gunfights.

[dcloudy777]

So basically you want to shoot Bullseye with fishing vests?   :down:

 

Pass.  I might go shoot the occasional club match because it's close, but every new rule book has made IDPA worse, not better.

 

Now, get rid of the ridiuclously stupid retention load stuff and we're moving in the right direction.

 

  DanO

Edited May 1, 2013 by dcloudy777

[DMark]

So basically you want to shoot Bullseye with fishing vests?

Are you talking to Me?

[itchytriggerfinger]

Can we start ammo dumping?  :stir:

[dcloudy777]

Are you talking to Me?

 

Yeah, kinda.  Nothing personal, but IDPA just seems to be getting less and less about shooting, and more about where to stand and memorizing complex engagement patterns.  Splitting the smallest division (Revolver) into two even smaller divisions was just a terrible idea, and like I mentioned before, the retaining magazine thing is just about the most ridiculous rule I've ever heard of in any sport. 

 

  DanO

[DMark]

DanO,

Maybe I did a poor job on writing my post, because I also dislike COFs that are designed to catch the shooter in PEs.

My concern is this IPSC-need-for-speed that is an erosion of sound tactics, techniques and procedures in IDPA.

I would like Blind stages with no walk-throughs, only a scenario that sets the stage. That lets the shooter engage the threats based on their training and experience. However, that (Blind Stages) would be hard to do when you have the great variations in skills at a IDPA match. Heck, its hard to do with trained professionals.

But I must disagree in regard to your comment about retaining ammo.

Been There - Done That - Needed ALL the Ammo to finish the Fight.

[dcloudy777]

Well, that's why there's so many people, so all of the opinions have a place to be.  :usa:

 

My thoughts: (not that anyone asked).

 

The "tactics" encouraged by IDPA are at least as terrible as those in USPSA.  Peeking around corners and shooting bad guys in order works fine when you have cover and you know how many bad guys there are... but fights have a tendency to happen under uncontrolled circumstances.  Conversely, charging USPSA-style into a room full of attackers and trying to shoot them before they can shoot you is often suicidal, but sometimes it's the only chance you have of winning the fight. 

 

The only "training" value of the action gun sports is gun handling and getting rounds on targets quickly... and USPSA just gives you more of that than IDPA.

 

If you won a fight because of ammo you retained, that's cool and I respect that, but I still think that you stand less of chance of losing because you didn't have enough ammo than losing because you were futzing around with magazines instead of fighting.

 

And "blind" stages would be great, but they're completely unworkable in a competitive setting... too easy to cheat.

 

  DanO

[DMark]

Never seen a way to cheat with a Blind Stage.

There is still an SO and scorer following the shooter.

But when I've done then...., I tend to be wearing Body Armor.

However, good comment about the whole retaining ammo deal.

Some Background......

Early on in IDPA it was assumed that most if not all reloads would be from slide lock. The reload with retention and tactical reload was seen as something to be done when there was a break in the action, so sticking that half-full mag into your pocket seems like a good thing because it is. There was also this idea that those reloads would somehow be off the clock. I never could figure out how that was to be done in the middle of the stage.

I think this came about because the earliest "test" matches where HOT matches. In other words, at the end of the COF you were commanded to "Reload & Holster." Sort like the old Single Stack Invitationals.

However, what happened was that COFs started to dictate the type of reloads to be done and where they had to be done (the 2005 rulebook rewrite fixed that issue).

And then the evil round dumping appeared! Edited May 1, 2013 by DMark

[itchytriggerfinger]

...  Conversely, charging USPSA-style into a room full of attackers and trying to shoot them before they can shoot you is often suicidal, but sometimes it's the only chance you have of winning the fight. 
 

 

Often works for me in MW3.  LOL!

[deerslayer]

I hope the rulebook does not bring a watering-down, but some of the above posts are similar to others I have read on benos or the idpa forum--that is, if the gamerphobes have their way, IDPA will be custom made for a bunch of bed-wetting Elmer Fudds.  Running earns an FTDR?  Are you serious?  This game may get ruined after all. 

Edited May 1, 2013 by deerslayer

[itchytriggerfinger]

Don't worry, I think they will keep it about the same.  They don't want to lose members.  At 22,000 members, they're only pulling in $660K a year in membership dues and have to pay for people to organize the organization and events and keep the lights on in the office.  

 

Let's not forget it's a game like anything else.  If you don't like to play the game choose a different game.  Don't like baseball, go play basketball.  Honestly, I'm not a huge IDPA fan, but I show up to my local shoot every month and play by their rules.  I just like to shoot.

 

If they make me walk, I'll walk, but I'll do it with swagga!  LOL

[Mechanic_X]

Striker guns in one class. DA start and SA start in different classes.
Speed loads.
More no shoots per stage.
Each hit on no shoot counts.
I really want to be able to drop mags but don't think that will happen. I'll settle for speed loads.

[Rickey]

Im gonna wait till I see the new rules next week before I get worked up about it. I really dont think it'll change that much hopefully just some fine tuning and rewording after all its just a game.

[Mechanic_X]

Eight shot wheel guns Rickey?

[Ray Z]

in a real gunfight

If you drop a mag, you have to stand out in the open for five seconds

[DMark]

....Running earns an FTDR?  Are you serious?

Well Yes, back in the early days. Yet the rulebooks have never had anything in them in regard to movement - - - Fast or Slow.

It was just assumed that tactical movement techniques would be used, which isn't running at full speed through a shoot-house.

You know that the spirit of the competition has been voided when John Scoutten on a Shooting USA show gets away with taking baby steps while retreating to a different FP at the S&W indoor nationals and Nobody calls a FTDR on him.

[Rickey]

A 8 shot revolver would probably be pretty good but I have a hard enough time counting to 6 in a bottom feeder you can feel when the slide locks but on a wheel gun if you lose count shoot you shoot till you hear a click/click

[deerslayer]

Well Yes, back in the early days. Yet the rulebooks have never had anything in them in regard to movement - - - Fast or Slow.

It was just assumed that tactical movement techniques would be used, which isn't running at full speed through a shoot-house.

 

Then why was it an FTDR if the rulebook didn't clarify?  Sounds like there were some tribal rules to me.  And who says running isn't "tactical?"

Edited May 2, 2013 by deerslayer