Bounty Hunters Break into Home Against Will of Homeowner

[Guest scott4813]

If they don't have LEO with them, then I am exercising my right to defend myself, my family and my home. I don't know those people from jack. If they barge in they are taking the risk of me defending my position.

[10-Ring]

I'm just thinking that say they get the wrong house.  They kick in the door and the homeowner shoots them.  If I'm on that jury I think I would tend to be pretty sympathetic towards that homeowner. 

[Guest Emtdaddy1980]

The homeowner, only knowing that someone is kicking in his door, shoots and in the process, is killed by LEOs (this also happened as part of the same incident I mentioned).

If, however, the homeowner had killed one of more of the LEOs and was still alive himself, would he be guilty of murder/manslaughter/some other, similar crime?

Did the LEOs violate the law or do they always get a free pass?

Is whether or not they (LEOs) yell "Police Department" is that enough to give LEOs a free pass?

What's to stop robbers/home invaders from yelling "police Dept" ?

[RobertNashville]

What's to stop robbers/home invaders from yelling "police Dept" ?

Nothing and I understand that some of the smarter (relative term here) home invaders do just that.

That's part of what prompted my question....if your door bursts open at 5 in the morning or 10 in the evening; waiting to take action until you figure out if it's really the police or just thugs will likely mean that you don't get to take any action at all.

I keep at lease one sidearm within reach of my hand at all times and in each room at home exactly so that I can respond a quickly as possible.

Edited April 25, 2013 by RobertNashville

[JAB]

Wasn't there a case here in TN not too long ago where a guy killed a Sheriff's Deputy on their property and found to be justified?

 

If it is the case I am thinking of, the deputy was off duty, was not in uniform, was not acting in any official capacity, was trespassing (after he and his friends passed a locked gate - basically breaking and entering) and was standing on the porch at something like 11:30 pm with a six pack in his hand, and had just turned away after jiggling the doorknob and attempting to gain entry.  Apparently, the house/property were for sale.  The owner - who was disabled and who had already had 'several' break ins at the property - had already moved his primary residence to Florida but was spending that night in the house.  Seems the deputy and his friends didn't think anyone was there and were probably looking for a place to hang out and party.  His friends tried to explain his actions by saying that he was looking to buy the place (which, iirc, was priced outside what one would expect a deputy could afford) and had simply taken them there to show the place to them.  An attempt was made to explain the late hour away by saying he worked odd hours so it wouldn't really seem that 'late' to him.  I never heard how they attempted to explain away the fact that they passed a locked gate to get there.

 

Apparently, the sheriff tried to go after the homeowner hard and heavy but was shut down when the facts of the case led to charges not being filed.  To me, that was more a case of a guy who happened to be a deputy doing something stupid and illegal that got him killed and the sheriff subsequently acting like a thug than a case of a LEO being killed while in his role as LEO.

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=12717293

 

And even after grand juries refused to indict, the parents still filed a 'wrongful death' suit.  They were carrying on about how the homeowner didn't say anything or 'call the authorities' before shooting Claiborne.  Well, guess what, if person A is ILLEGALLY on person B's property, has done something that qualifies as forced entry (such as passing a locked gate to get onto the property) and is standing on person B's porch jiggling the door handle then person A has no obligation to say anything or call anyone before acting in perceived self defense.  Gotta love how the article calls him a 'slain deputy' instead of 'a man who was illegally trespassing'.  Spin is everywhere, I guess.

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/13282530/parents-of-slain-deputy-sue-man-who-pulled-trigger

Edited April 25, 2013 by JAB

[RobertNashville]

If it is the case I am thinking of, the deputy was off duty, was not in uniform, was not acting in any official capacity, was trespassing (after he and his friends passed a locked gate - basically breaking and entering) and was standing on the porch at something like 11:30 pm with a six pack in his hand, and had just turned away after jiggling the doorknob and attempting to gain entry.  Apparently, the house/property were for sale.  The owner - who was disabled and who had already had 'several' break ins at the property - had already moved his primary residence to Florida but was spending that night in the house.  Seems the deputy and his friends didn't think anyone was there and were probably looking for a place to hang out and party.  His friends tried to explain his actions by saying that he was looking to buy the place (which, iirc, was priced outside what one would expect a deputy could afford) and had simply taken them there to show the place to them.  An attempt was made to explain the late hour away by saying he worked odd hours so it wouldn't really seem that 'late' to him.  I never heard how they attempted to explain away the fact that they passed a locked gate to get there.

 

Apparently, the sheriff tried to go after the homeowner hard and heavy but was shut down when the facts of the case led to charges not being filed.  To me, that was more a case of a guy who happened to be a deputy doing something stupid and illegal that got him killed and the sheriff subsequently acting like a thug than a case of a LEO being killed while in his role as LEO.

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=12717293

 

And even after grand juries refused to indict, the parents still filed a 'wrongful death' suit.  They were carrying on about how the homeowner didn't say anything or 'call the authorities' before shooting Claiborne.  Well, guess what, if person A is ILLEGALLY on person B's property, has done something that qualifies as forced entry (such as passing a locked gate to get onto the property) and is standing on person B's porch jiggling the door handle then person A has no obligation to say anything or call anyone before acting in perceived self defense.  Gotta love how the article calls him a 'slain deputy' instead of 'a man who was illegally trespassing'.  Spin is everywhere, I guess.

 

http://www.newschannel5.com/story/13282530/parents-of-slain-deputy-sue-man-who-pulled-trigger

Thanks for posting this!

As I recently learned and think it worth passing along again; "not being charged" is NOT sufficient under TN law to win a wrongful death suit (in other words, simply not being charged does not provide the affirmative defense to such a suit).

 

For the TN protections against such suits to apply a judge (or at least someone in authority) has to make a FINDING that the shooting was justified.  We all need to keep that in mind!

Edited April 25, 2013 by RobertNashville

[Patton]

There has not been a verdict on a civil suit against Larry White in the wrongful death law suit of Mike Claiborne.
Edit: I don't want to jeopardize a case. Edited April 25, 2013 by Patton

[JAB]

Something very odd was that Claiborne had a six pack of beer but none of them had been drinking previously.

 

At the risk of further hi-jack, according to the second article I linked above, Claiborne's parents said that he had been drinking but that they weren't sure what his blood alcohol level was.

[Patton]

Edit: I don't want to jeopardize a case. Edited April 25, 2013 by Patton

[Spiffy]

I have heard they are now homeless, they lost the farm and everything in a civil suit.
Actually I think they are in jail on weapons violations.

 

Yeah the last I heard the Lawyer took the farm in a  judgment for his fees.

[Patton]

Yeah the last I heard the Lawyer took the farm in a  judgment for his fees.

I also heard they have asked for protection do to threats and a bounty on their heads.

[Guest 270win]

Uncle Jack,

 

When you are working, do you carry a handgun on an armed guard license or do you just use a handgun carry permit?

[Patton]

To carry you only need a HCP. However you need a 8hr course to be a bail agent every 2? Years.