Bounty Hunters Break into Home Against Will of Homeowner

[Patton]

I know that it is an offenders right to post bail and be released on bond, but TN and a host of other states are so screwed up about it. One state, I don't remember which one, you post bond to the county and the county itself seeks asset forfeiture when the suspect doesn't appear. Edited April 23, 2013 by Patton

[RichardR]

If some folks came to my door looking for a "perp", demanded entry, then forced entry they'd die of lead poisoning on my front porch. How come that doesn't happen to these cows?

The same reason it didn't happen in Boston, the American people have no desire to resist, maybe get themselves or members of their family killed in a shootout with the *cough* authorities *cough* ...

[TMF]

The same reason it didn't happen in Boston, the American people have no desire to resist, maybe get themselves or members of their family killed in a shootout with the *cough* authorities *cough* ...

Well, I'd say there's a pretty big difference in how I would react to a sworn officer as opposed to a dirtbag showing up on my doorstep wanting entry. I'd tell an officer "no", but if he demands entry under the threat of being cuffed and stuffed I'd comply and deal with it later with a lawsuit. I'm not shooting it out with the Popo unless free elections have been suspended and we are no longer governed by elected leaders. However, if some dirtbag claiming to be a bounty hunter wants access to my house I'm gonna say "no". If he forces entry he's in for some lead poisoning.

Perhaps if your name was on the bond paperwork it means they can search your place, but how on earth are you to verify that some dirt bag looking dude has that authority? I'm willing to bet that a person who isn't harboring a fugitive but IS on the bond paperwork could articulate how they were in fear of their life or the lives of their kids as a team of armed strangers are forcing entry. Hell, there have been plenty of cases where folks have been found justified for shooting law enforcement officers who did not properly identify themselves or were in the wrong place without a warrant to be there.

[RobertNashville]

I know that it is an offenders right to post bail and be released on bond, but TN and a host of other states are so screwed up about it. One state, I don't remember which one, you post bond to the county and the county itself seeks asset forfeiture when the suspect doesn't appear.

Actually, the ability to post bail is up to the judge I believe...no one is automatically entitled to bail...entitled to a hearing for bail to be set or denied, but not to getting bail.

 

And yes, if you have the assets and/or the cash to post for bail you can post them as your bond - the court (municipal, county, state, etc) keeps the cash or goes after the assets if you fail to appear; that's the way it usually works.  All a bail bondsman does is post cash on your behalf and he gets interest on the money he loaned you for your bail.

[Patton]

Actually, the ability to post bail is up to the judge I believe...no one is automatically entitled to bail...entitled to a hearing for bail to be set or denied, but not to getting bail.

And yes, if you have the assets and/or the cash to post for bail you can post them as your bond - the court (municipal, county, state, etc) keeps the cash or goes after the assets if you fail to appear; that's the way it usually works. All a bail bondsman does is post cash on your behalf and he gets interest on the money he loaned you for your bail.

Yes and yes, your 8th amendment guarantees you the right to post bail within a fair amount. What I was referring to was some state that does not allow bondsman. You can post the entire bail amount or pay a 10% bond with the remaining amount up as secured collateral(paid directly to the county, no third party if forfeit) I'll try to find out what state it is. Basically the county serves as the bondsman. When your a no show the county can pay their officers such as a bondsman pays a bail agent. Edited April 24, 2013 by Patton

[Guest ancient_serpent]

Don't care who it is, unless you're the Police, any attempt to force entry into my home will be met with all the force I can bring to bear. 

[JayC]

The Constitution places limits on the GOVERNMENT not private individuals.  A bail bondsmen is a private individual and is therefore NOT restricted by the constitution.

 

SCOTUS made some famous ruling back in the 1800's that still stand today that give 'bounty hunters' wide latitude in recovering people who have skipped on their bail.

 

If you don't co-sign a bail application, aren't out on bail, and don't hang around with people who are on bail, the chances are you'll never have an encounter with a bounty hunter.

 

I might can see this being true for the bond jumpers home and a co-signer home, but no one else.  IF that's true, then why even have a constitution? I'm not saying all are, but I've known a couple of people that claimed to be bounty hunters and both had inflated ego's and pushy thug like attitudes always talking about the "rush" of catching someone which definitely is NOT the kind of people I'd let in my home.  With a warrant and LEO, then fine....otherwise they will be looking down the barrel of a pistol when I open the door. I have a pistol on me all the time at home and if they kick it in, I would be shooting. With bad legs that I have, I'm not able to fight anymore, thus the pistol on my person at all times, but I shoot very well.  But then, I’m not gonna be on any bond paperwork anyway, unless it’s my own and they will be instructed as to this fact and that they are at the wrong address, If they knock that is.....And I would not jump bond.

 

[Patton]

I have always been kind of disturbed by the existence of bouny hunters, even though I hope to never be out of jail on bond. Private bail enforcement agents like we see in TN and most other states, do have the right to enter the address on the bond. What bothers me is the times in my law enforcement career I have went to serve a warrant at a residence the person no longer lives at. I am sure people give bondsmen the wrong addresses all the time. So know this bail agent is kicking in the door of the correct address of a honest, unsuspecting citizen. I understand the homeowner wants to use deadly force to stop this home invasion. So he shoots the bail agent. The real ones, not the fly by night ones, always have backup. They often have shotguns and AR's.
In 6 years of law enforcement I have only ran across one group of them in the field, this experience was different than other my other law enforcement buddies. This crew actually looked presentable and not the classic mall ninja, gear whore goons. It's funny, they actually had a bail contract with an incorrect address. They loaded up and left immediately after talking with the people at the house. They didn't ask to come in, it was obvious it wasn't the correct address. I stayed on the street and they came back to their trucks and said thanks. I asked them what they were going to do next and they said, "Find him". They left and I never seen or heard from them again. They weren't rude, just acted like they had no time to chit chat with a small town cop. The chick bounty hunter was hot, when I described her to someone later they told me she was a licensed private investigator that does cheating cases. She also was said to have slept with her entire National Guard Company in Iraq. I know her type. Edited April 24, 2013 by Patton

[dunndw]

If A N Y O N E attempts forced entry into my home, they will be met with at much force as I can bring to bear. I don't make a habit of being around people who are bail jumpers or crooks. My first instinct is going to be home invasion and I shall react accordingly.

[JAB]

The Constitution places limits on the GOVERNMENT not private individuals.  A bail bondsmen is a private individual and is therefore NOT restricted by the constitution.

 

 

Perhaps but I also do not believe that state law PROTECTS private individuals who are attempting to force entry into my home.  Tn state law says, basically, that there is an assumption of a fear of death or serious, bodily injury when deadly force is used against someone who has forcibly entered or is in the act of forcibly entering someone else's residence.  The only exception to that which I have seen specifically mentioned in the TN Code Annotated is for a law enforcement officer who is engaged in carrying out his or her official duties.  Apparently, under state law, bounty hunters are not law enforcement officers.  Therefore, when attempting to forcibly enter the home of any other than the bail jumper they are no more an 'exception' to the assumption of a threat of death or serious, bodily injury than any other, private citizen.  I can't see that they are any more 'protected' from the use of deadly force when attempting a home invasion than any Joe Scumbag who might be attempting to break in.

Edited April 24, 2013 by JAB

[Patton]

It is like this. You have a reasonable explanation of fear if someone is entering your home. Do you have the right to automatically shoot someone who is entering your home? Truthfully, no. Most people will, and I would. If one of these thug bounty hunters is at your home, knocks twice on the door and yells, "Bail Enforcement", knocking down the door, I am going to shoot. I have no reason to believe as a honest citizen that they are there for me. I am going to shoot, especially if he is charging me with a gun in hand or visible on his belt. If I am a local turd out on bail, and have reason to believe the police or private bail agent is looking for me, I will probably run. I may also shoot them hoping to escape. As a honest citizen I have to be able to convince the courts that I was in reasonable fear for my life because I had no expectation of a bail agent entering my home. This is assuming I make it to court because after I shoot the first goon the others will probably shoot me dead, these guys are known to carry serious firepower in AR's, shotguns, and heavy caliber handguns.
Even though they have legal authority to enter the address on the bond contract or any address they see their skip inside, I still have the expectation of someone using force on me is a deadly threat. I am going to meet force with force. I am sorry if they are at the wrong place or there skip is inside my residence. I really think it would be hard for the courts to convict me, assuming they don't over power me. I guarantee I'll take at least one with me though.

[TMF]

In this case not only was the skip not in the residence, he hadn't been there for years. Seems to me the criteria required for them to force entry wasn't met. They should have been shot dead and harvested for soap and lamp oil. Edited April 24, 2013 by TMF

[RobertNashville]

This is something of a tangent question but this thread has prompted me to think of it...

Assume that one or more LEO's forcefully enter a home very early morning.

Further assume that this home happens to be the WRONG home that they are entering (this has happened at least once just a copule of miles from where I live since I moved to Tennessee).

The homeowner, only knowing that someone is kicking in his door, shoots and in the process, is killed by LEOs (this also happened as part of the same incident I mentioned).

If, however, the homeowner had killed one of more of the LEOs and was still alive himself, would he be guilty of murder/manslaughter/some other, similar crime?

Did the LEOs violate the law or do they always get a free pass?

Is whether or not they (LEOs) yell "Police Department" is that enough to give LEOs a free pass?

[Patton]

This is something of a tangent question but this thread has prompted me to think of it...

Assume that one or more LEO's forcefully enter a home very early morning.

Further assume that this home happens to be the WRONG home that they are entering (this has happened at least once just a copule of miles from where I live since I moved to Tennessee).

The homeowner, only knowing that someone is kicking in his door, shoots and in the process, is killed by LEOs (this also happened as part of the same incident I mentioned).

If, however, the homeowner had killed one of more of the LEOs and was still alive himself, would he be guilty of murder/manslaughter/some other, similar crime?

Did the LEOs violate the law or do they always get a free pass?

Is whether or not they (LEOs) yell "Police Department" is that enough to give LEOs a free pass?

Yes and No, you are not supposed to shoot who you have full belief is the police entering your home. Chances are you would be shot before shooting one and definetly before shooting the second one. I could not see someone being prosecuted, much less convicted if they shot the police who were at the wrong house. Especially if it was believed you are a honest citizen believing it was a home invasion. If you survived you could have one hell of a civil suit.

[TMF]

Just off the top of my head, remember Randy Weaver's buddy who was found to be justified in the shooting of a Fed Marshal? Happens enough I suppose. Wasn't there a case here in TN not too long ago where a guy killed a Sheriff's Deputy on their property and found to be justified?

[Spiffy]

Do they have a TV show, yet? "Dogg, the Bounty Hunter" is taken. I can only imagine the female version. :D

 

BTW, I would shoot them dead as a criminal trying to break in my house. In other words, they had better

know whose house. they are breaking in.

 

 

There was a female Bounty Hunter show around the time Dogg was big on the TV. It was 3 "pretty" busty girls and they had 2 or 3 guys go with them......most likely the guys were the bounty hunters. Did last long because all the girls wanted to do was curse and talk tough.

[10-Ring]

Bounty hunting can be as honorable of a profession as anything else that's legit.  Scum bags like Dogg give the profession a bad name, and I'm sure that there are a lot of mall ninja types that do the same.  Seems that in certain cases they are justified breaking doors down but they better be damn sure they are in the right before they do. 

[Spiffy]

Bounty hunting can be as honorable of a profession as anything else that's legit.  Scum bags like Dogg give the profession a bad name, and I'm sure that there are a lot of mall ninja types that do the same.  Seems that in certain cases they are justified breaking doors down but they better be damn sure they are in the right before they do. 

 

I have watched my fair share of Dog the Bounty Hunter and I have yet to see them do anything more than call all the numbers on the application, use informats  and offer CASH MONEY for info. They always ask if they can come in and such. They always seem to get someone in authority to open the door or ask to lay in wait.

 

Outside of him being a convicted felon (who probably has had his rights restored) I don't see anything they have done dirt baggy. And in the new one on CMT the son is rocking a Glock. 

[Patton]

I used to live in Hawaii, I never met Dog though, no way would I do what he does there. It is a wonder he has not been killed. I think he is about a joke but he really doesn't do anything disrespectful or illegal.

[10-Ring]

I have watched my fair share of Dog the Bounty Hunter and I have yet to see them do anything more than call all the numbers on the application, use informats  and offer CASH MONEY for info. They always ask if they can come in and such. They always seem to get someone in authority to open the door or ask to lay in wait.

 

Outside of him being a convicted felon (who probably has had his rights restored) I don't see anything they have done dirt baggy. And in the new one on CMT the son is rocking a Glock. 

 

Maybe dirtbag isn't an accurate description, I just don't care for the guy.  I don't care for the way he drops F bombs left and right one minute then climbs up on his high horse and preaches the gospel the next minute.  None of us Christians are perfect but I feel that he sets a poor example.  I've also heard him take anti 2nd A stances numerous times which does nothing to favor him for me. 

[LawVol]

Just off the top of my head, remember Randy Weaver's buddy who was found to be justified in the shooting of a Fed Marshal? Happens enough I suppose. Wasn't there a case here in TN not too long ago where a guy killed a Sheriff's Deputy on their property and found to be justified?

Leon and Rocky Houston also come to mind.

[Guest tommy62]

Kick in my door and there will be a sudden onset oflead poisoning.

[Spiffy]

Maybe dirtbag isn't an accurate description, I just don't care for the guy.  I don't care for the way he drops F bombs left and right one minute then climbs up on his high horse and preaches the gospel the next minute.  None of us Christians are perfect but I feel that he sets a poor example.  I've also heard him take anti 2nd A stances numerous times which does nothing to favor him for me. 

 

I think that's the shock value of it and the rush they talk about.  But it does make for a great joke call em a MF then talk to em about Jesus....WTF!!!

[Spiffy]

Leon and Rocky Houston also come to mind.

 

They weren't found justified just a hung jury a few times. I'm from that area so I'll stop there.

[Patton]

They weren't found justified just a hung jury a few times. I'm from that area so I'll stop there.

I have heard they are now homeless, they lost the farm and everything in a civil suit.
Actually I think they are in jail on weapons violations. Edited April 25, 2013 by Patton