Vehicle on School Property

Fallguy · July 2, 2010

I wish the state would pass the law where your car is "YOUR castle".

Would be nice

.......man have times changed

Amen to that!!

Falcon1 · July 3, 2010

So where do we stand on this...is it or isn't it ok for a teacher to have it on school poperty in the car locked?

Well there is not total agreement by the members here on it.
However if you have unloaded and locked up, legally you may be fine. But if the school/board of ed has a policy against it.....then you probably would not be as far as your job is concerned.

Here comes some of the disagreement.

I'm a public-school teacher, and in my view, you are not fine legally. The exception is specifically for dropping off and picking up passengers, not for parking your car there for seven-plus hours as an employee. Personally, I think you are on legal quicksand if you do so. OMO, YMMV....

Fallguy · July 3, 2010

Here comes some of the disagreement.
I'm a public-school teacher, and in my view, you are not fine legally. The exception is specifically for dropping off and picking up passengers, not for parking your car there for seven-plus hours as an employee. Personally, I think you are on legal quicksand if you do so. OMO, YMMV....

Well picking up and dropping off is not the only exception in 39-17-1309 & 39-17-1310. But that is why I did say may...

I do hope the bill by Rep West that would clear this up will be introduced again next year and hopefully passed.

August 31, 2010

I asked the DOS about having a gun on school property

"If a person has a valid Tennessee Handgun carry permit is it legal to have a firearm on a public school campus (K-12) or (college) if it is not handled and remains locked in a private vehicle at all times?

I see the law states "It is not an offense under this subsection © for a nonstudent adult to posses a firearm, if the firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by the adult, or by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property."

However does that cover a campus posted with the required no weapons signage and does that law also protect employees of that school?

thank you."

Their responce

"Dear Sir:

Your e-mail was forwarded to me for response.

It is legal for a person who has a Tennessee Handgun carry permit and who is a nonstudent adult to have a firearm contained in a locked vehicle and not handled by the adult by any other person acting with the expressed or implied consent of the adult, while the vehicle is on school property, unless the campus has otherwise posted a prohibition on the carrying of handguns pursuant to TCA 39-17-1359.

The law refers to nonstudent adults, which would include employees of schools.

A listing of the Tennessee laws regarding handguns are located at http://www.tennessee.gov/safety/handgunmain.htm under "Handgun Permit Related Laws", and the full Tennessee Code is available online at http://www.michie.com/tennessee/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=tncode.

Sincerely,

Lizabeth Hale

Staff Attorney

Tennessee Department of Safety"

????????????????????????WHAT?????????????????????? can I or can't I?????????????????????

Fallguy · September 1, 2010

Seems like a pretty straight forward answer to me....especially for a government attorney.

She is say Yes, you can have the firearm in your vehicle as long as you do not handle it or allow someone to handle it with your consent...as long as the school hasn't posted the property per 39-17-1359.

I assume she mentions 39-17-1359 because of your mention of signs.

You may have meant the sings required in 39-17-1309, but those signs aren't what actually prohibits carry in the school, they only make you aware of the law. It is the law itself that makes carry unlawful. Unlike 39-17-1359 where the posting of the sign is what makes carry illegal.

Although I have never seen a 39-17-1359 at a school, they could post one if they wanted. Since carry in the school itself is illegal even with a permit, the only place I see them posting a 39-17-1359 would be at the entrances off the road.

Also while it may be legal for a teacher to have a handgun in their car...it could still be against school policy and subject the teacher to punishment through the school.

September 1, 2010

Was all that necessary?? LOL:)

Fallguy · September 1, 2010

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJIMKLA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style><link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CJIMKLA%7E1%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C05%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><style>  </style>
Was all that necessary?? LOL:)

?????

vontar · September 1, 2010

What we need is a bill that allows us to keep guns in her cars/trucks while on company property like some other states have, regards of Employee hand books.

I was trying to find an example but I am not the best at finding examples but I know I read some states have laws like this. I was thinking KY was one of them.

Found it

From KY

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/kentucky.pdf

Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal

offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or

brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit

employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed

deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit

employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed

deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice

Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the

weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used Page 6 of 11 by the employee of the

cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction.

September 1, 2010

wasn't there a parking lot bill a while back that our governator struck down????? I thought there was, maybe it didn't make it that far.

Oh Shoot · September 1, 2010

wasn't there a parking lot bill a while back that our governator struck down????? I thought there was, maybe it didn't make it that far.

Never made it to a vote.

- OS

Fallguy · September 1, 2010

wasn't there a parking lot bill a while back that our governator struck down????? I thought there was, maybe it didn't make it that far.

Never made it to a vote.
- OS

Yep...went to summer study (again)

vontar · September 2, 2010

I want a good parking lot bill,

I think we needed it more then the restaurant bill.

The reason I think that, many people if they follow their employee hand book can not carry a gun to and from work as they drive because they are not allowed to park at work with a gun in their car. Odds of being found out of slim but there is a chance.

Example, where I work, they reserve the right to search car/trucks, however I have never known of it happening.

I have heard of cases people posted where someone's car was broke in and the police report listed a stolen gun, which got back tot he company, and said person was fired.

So Yea, I really want a parking lot type bill passed.

September 2, 2010

It's ok to carry on school property so long as you are in your vehicle and picking up/dropping off your kids.

You cannot exit your vehicle carrying.

Atleast this is what has been explained to me by several levels of law enforcement. And a simple rule of thumb that plan to follow.

If I stop by my nephews TTU campus to see him, ammo stays on me and gun gets locked in trunk.1) Its not illegal to posess ammo on school grounds 2) If car is broken into, I didnt just arm some douchebag with both gun and ammo.

Just how I do things. Might not be right for everyone.

September 4, 2010

From what has been said above, even from the TN State attorney. If you're a non-student and the firearm is locked and never possessed by the owner other than being locked into a glovebox or car safe, it's okay...

Maybe I'm wrong again?

Fallguy · September 4, 2010

Well....the law is not 100% clear (imagine that).

There are two parts to 39-17-1309. One deals with the "intent to go armed" and the other doesn't.

The part that says it is ok for a non-student adult etc..... is an exception for the part that does not deal with the "intent to go armed".

There is no exemption for leaving it in your vehicle under the "intent to go armed" part.

Some have said if the weapon is loaded or ammo near, that shows an "intent to go armed", some have said they don't think it does.

There was a bill introduced last session to make it clearly legal, but it was sent to summer study again.

There is also an AG opinion about parks being used by schools in which he says that a HCP holder could but his handgun in his vehicle while on the grounds of a park being used by a school...which IMO is the same as other school grounds then.

Personally, I think it is legal, also I don't ever plan on doing anything to cause my vehicle to be searched while I'm on school grounds.

September 4, 2010

It's ok to carry on school property so long as you are in your vehicle and picking up/dropping off your kids.

AFAIK, that part is "cut and dried"... The getting out part is the sneaky one.

September 6, 2010

Well....the law is not 100% clear (imagine that).
There are two parts to 39-17-1309. One deals with the "intent to go armed" and the other doesn't.

The part that says it is ok for a non-student adult etc..... is an exception for the part that does not deal with the "intent to go armed".

There is no exemption for leaving it in your vehicle under the "intent to go armed" part.

Some have said if the weapon is loaded or ammo near, that shows an "intent to go armed", some have said they don't think it does.

There was a bill introduced last session to make it clearly legal, but it was sent to summer study again.

There is also an AG opinion about parks being used by schools in which he says that a HCP holder could but his handgun in his vehicle while on the grounds of a park being used by a school...which IMO is the same as other school grounds then.

Personally, I think it is legal, also I don't ever plan on doing anything to cause my vehicle to be searched while I'm on school grounds.

they dont have to have a reason by coming on the property you have given them permission to search

Fallguy · September 6, 2010

they dont have to have a reason by coming on the property you have given them permission to search

Just because a sign may say that doesn't make it legally so.

But even if it is, you have given consent voluntarily and can revoke that consent at anytime.

DaveTN · September 7, 2010

Just because a sign may say that doesn't make it legally so.
But even if it is, you have given consent voluntarily and can revoke that consent at anytime.

That doesnâ€™t stop you from being arrested; it just gives your attorney reason to ask a Judge to decide on the legality of the search... Good luck with that.

BTWâ€¦ Thomas Jefferson would say donâ€™t bring your guns to school if you donâ€™t know the law.

Fallguy · September 7, 2010

That doesn’t stop you from being arrested; it just gives your attorney reason to ask a Judge to decide on the legality of the search... Good luck with that.
BTW… Thomas Jefferson would say don’t bring your guns to school if you don’t know the law.

"You may beat the charge, but you can't beat the ride." right.....lol

I guess one thing is none of the schools I've been to or my kids have gone to have such signs on the property.

But still not sure what you would be arrested for? Not allowing them to search when they have no cause to? Now if they have PC to search it really doesn't matter what any sign says....

September 7, 2010

That doesn’t stop you from being arrested; it just gives your attorney reason to ask a Judge to decide on the legality of the search... Good luck with that.

If they don't have PC and ask to search and you respectfully decline...

What can they do... Other than find another reason to search?

Oh Shoot · September 7, 2010

If they don't have PC and ask to search and you respectfully decline...
What can they do... Other than find another reason to search?

You just gave them PC - suspicion.

It's suspicious behavior to deny a search, implies you have something to hide!

- OS

September 7, 2010

the sign says something like .........by entering this property all persons and/or property is subject to search at anytime.........or something like that.(so if you dont like it turn around now). I know we can search the students or their belongings at anytime for any reason/no reason spot check. I dont but......we can it has been challenged and it has stood up in court.

Edited September 7, 2010 by buttonhook

September 7, 2010

Just because a sign may say that doesn't make it legally so.
But even if it is, you have given consent voluntarily and can revoke that consent at anytime.

Once on the property you are subject to search and you have voluntarily consented driving/walking/riding past that sign and by being on the property. You cant revoke it unless you leave the property before they search.

September 7, 2010

You just gave them PC - suspicion.
It's suspicious behavior to deny a search, implies you have something to hide!

- OS

I hope you're joking...

Vehicle on School Property

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