The Bill of Rights was written for Dzhokar Tsarnaev

[bigbabysweets]

There should be something done about the guy pointing rifles at windows. I'd be beyond pissed, and probably have a thread about me, if that was my daughter looking out the window and having it pointed at her. If your clam is so large you have to ride with your gun raised towards civililians, you should have stayed on your Xbox and kept playing Black Ops 2.

[diablo982]

There should be something done about the guy pointing rifles at windows. I'd be beyond pissed, and probably have a thread about me, if that was my daughter looking out the window and having it pointed at her. If your clam is so large you have to ride with your gun raised towards civililians, you should have stayed on your Xbox and kept playing Black Ops 2.

I'm assuming this was taken between the nighttime shootout and the point he was found in the boat. The LEO'S/National Guard were sweeping the streets looking for someone who already shot two LEO's and threw bombs at them. I have to question the intelligence of the photographer pointing an unknown object at the officers under the circumstances. I'm pretty sure our soldiers on patrol in Afghan villages would point a weapon at an open window if something was being pointed at them as well.

[npgunner]

I'm assuming this was taken between the nighttime shootout and the point he was found in the boat. The LEO'S/National Guard were sweeping the streets looking for someone who already shot two LEO's and threw bombs at them. I have to question the intelligence of the photographer pointing an unknown object at the officers under the circumstances. I'm pretty sure our soldiers on patrol in Afghan villages would point a weapon at an open window if something was being pointed at them as well.

So we willingly accept US Military cruising the streets pointing automatic weapons at us? 

IMO the military shouldn't have been involved in this at all (Posse Comitatus Act), except if the NG was called up for clean-up and disaster relief.  

I know what he did was terribly awful and he deserves all of the aforementioned awful punishments we have set forth in this thread; but I am not willing to wave my rights to deny unwarranted search of my property, nor the participation of US military forces involved in civilian law enforcement because someone did something awful. 

We all b!t$h and moan when they want to take away our guns (or NY'ers guns) because someone shot up a school, why aren't we all b!i$chin' and moaning because they're taking away another Constitutionally protected right?

[bigbabysweets]

I'm assuming this was taken between the nighttime shootout and the point he was found in the boat. The LEO'S/National Guard were sweeping the streets looking for someone who already shot two LEO's and threw bombs at them. I have to question the intelligence of the photographer pointing an unknown object at the officers under the circumstances. I'm pretty sure our soldiers on patrol in Afghan villages would point a weapon at an open window if something was being pointed at them as well.

The military is routinely hit from windows and hillsides over there. That is a huge difference and a reason only found there. Can anyone name a time a shot was taken at an armored Humvee on the streets in America? Especially in suburbia? Also, notice the posture of everyone else? I see there guns aren't pointed at people. It's a scary game to play, if they act like this is an Afghan country, certain people may respond as the Afghan people do at times. The gun may have been posted first, lending the reason for the man to get the camera.

[Sam1]

He should be treated with the same rules that apply to prisoners of war or terrorists.

 

BUT >>>> 

 

Technically if he was a terrorist and his job was to cause terror/blow people up/shoot them, wouldn't that be considered workplace violence? Same thing in the Ft. Hood shooting :)

[Guest ThePunisher]

Has the Communist administration in the WH ever come out and said these two were Muslim terrorist yet. Oh that's right, they don't use the T word, especially if they are of Islamic faith.

[diablo982]

The military is routinely hit from windows and hillsides over there. That is a huge difference and a reason only found there. Can anyone name a time a shot was taken at an armored Humvee on the streets in America? Especially in suburbia? Also, notice the posture of everyone else? I see there guns aren't pointed at people. It's a scary game to play, if they act like this is an Afghan country, certain people may respond as the Afghan people do at times. The gun may have been posted first, lending the reason for the man to get the camera.

Twelve hours before and blocks away an MIT Officer was sitting in his car and approached by two harmless civilians. One "civilian" suddenly pulled a gun and shot him in the head. An hour later these same subjects shot another officer and threw IEDs at them. I'd say the officers had every reason to be on edge. This isn't any everyday situation and in my opinion was closer to Afghanistan/Iraq than Suburbia.

[East_TN_Patriot]

Has the Communist administration in the WH ever come out and said these two were Muslim terrorist yet. Oh that's right, they don't use the T word, especially if they are of Islamic faith.

Actually, he did.  Unfortunately, I had to dig up this clip from Huffington Post since none of the conservative sites had it on there (although I did find several - including Fox News - that said he never called it an act of terror).  A video clip of the press conference where he said the following quote is below.

 

 

This was a heinous and cowardly act. And given what we now know about what took place, the FBI is investigating it as an act of terrorism. Any time bombs are used to target innocent civilians it is an act of terror. What we don’t yet know, however, is who carried out this attack, or why; whether it was planned and executed by a terrorist organization, foreign or domestic, or was the act of a malevolent individual. That's what we don't yet know. And clearly, we’re at the beginning of our investigation.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/obama-boston-marathon-bombing_n_3092801.html

 

Edited April 22, 2013 by East_TN_Patriot

[npgunner]

...Pulled from another thread, but thought it would fit here as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LrbsUVSVl8&feature=player_embedded

 

As far as I'm concerned ...

 

the city of Boston, and whatever other official agencies took part in this deserve to go bankrupt over the lawsuits filed regarding these searches; and, IMO, any particular officer that can be nailed down to committing these atrocious acts and searches should be charged criminally.

[bigbabysweets]

Twelve hours before and blocks away an MIT Officer was sitting in his car and approached by two harmless civilians. One "civilian" suddenly pulled a gun and shot him in the head. An hour later these same subjects shot another officer and threw IEDs at them. I'd say the officers had every reason to be on edge. This isn't any everyday situation and in my opinion was closer to Afghanistan/Iraq than Suburbia.

My point. So a terrorist killed an unsuspecting cop/person, that's pretty much how they work. Should runners start running with guns in hand, aiming at spectators? But when has a terrorist killed a suspecting soldier in an armored car? Terrorist of all faiths and devices go after the weak and those not able to defend themselves. Like all predators, they choose prey of the least resistance. If a cop had pointed a gun at civilians approaching their car in the area right after, I wouldn't be nearly as geared up. If they come on my street and point a gun at me in my home, that's what I have a deal with. Look back at the picture, no other people look nearly as worried, it obviously wasn't as intense as he was making it out to be. He even has his helmet off and hat turned backward. Nothing says I'm afraid for my life like taking off the protection you were given to save it and wearing your hat backwards...

[RED333]

How is it treason to kill random people?

 

- OS

He is a US citizen, that attacked people with a bomb, tried to start a war, a war of terror, sounds like Treason to me.

[Oh Shoot]

He is a US citizen, that attacked people with a bomb, tried to start a war, a war of terror, sounds like Treason to me.

 

So killing 3 people with bomb is the difference?

 

But a US citizen killing 12 folks in a theater with a gun is "just" murder?

 

Would you have charged the kid with terrorism who offed 20 children at Sandy Hook? Certainly, that probably put more fear into the hearts of people nationwide than the Boston bombing.

 

All the victims of the shootings were essentially just as random as those from the bombing, too. Only the location was specifically selected in all cases.

 

Seems to me the only real difference between just murder and "terrorism" would have to be defined by whether the perp was part of some larger organizational plot, which maybe these two bros were, but I kind of doubt it. Just because someone is influenced by politics or religion to commit some twisted crime doesn't mean there's an actual plot that extends beyond their actions.

 

- OS

Edited April 22, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Sam1]

In the military, you look with your gun, you don't have time to look around with your gun secured in the mount, then if you find a threat, take control of the gun and then handle business because you'll be dead by then.

Anyone with half a brain would stay the eff away from windows if cops/police were doing a sweep. Just goes to show the photographers ignorance.

[RED333]

OS

Shooting is one thing, blowing up people is a whole other ball game.

To me it sounds like Treason.

I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.

[TMF]

[quote name="East_TN_Patriot" post="956772" timestamp="1366593996"]


Take a photo from your home and have a member of the US military point a rifle at you. At least, I presume that's who he is since the vehicle is a Humvee and it says "military police" on it. People spend time ad nauseam talking about FEMA trucks waiting to take over the country, but nary a word about this use of the military to deal with a domestic law enforcement issue. This is the danger of the "war on terror" since it essentially gives the federal government to render a criminal incident a "terror attack" and ignore the Bill of Rights and the Posse Comitatus Act. There is a reason the military are not allowed to carry out civilian law enforcement duties and this is why. Military rules of engagement are quite different than civilian law enforcement and the Bill of Rights is not something considered in training soldiers to fight a war.
[/quote]

Not a snowball's chance in hell that porker is an MP. Not just because he is obviously out of regs on weight, but there is no way a unit would be activated and their chain of command would allow them to run around in non-standard uniform and gear for such a high-vis event. If anything they'd be in full battle rattle to include the dome of obedience.

My guess, those vehicles were borrowed by law enforcement from the Nat'l Guard since they wanted armored vehicles and the Guard was the only ones with enough of them. Te driver is likely the only military personnel involved, Edited April 22, 2013 by TMF

[TMF]

. Edited April 22, 2013 by TMF

[Dolomite_supafly]

So killing 3 people with bomb is the difference?

 

But a US citizen killing 12 folks in a theater with a gun is "just" murder?

 

Would you have charged the kid with terrorism who offed 20 children at Sandy Hook? Certainly, that probably put more fear into the hearts of people nationwide than the Boston bombing.

 

All the victims of the shootings were essentially just as random as those from the bombing, too. Only the location was specifically selected in all cases.

 

Seems to me the only real difference between just murder and "terrorism" would have to be defined by whether the perp was part of some larger organizational plot, which maybe these two bros were, but I kind of doubt it. Just because someone is influenced by politics or religion to commit some twisted crime doesn't mean there's an actual plot that extends beyond their actions.

 

- OS

 

This is how I feel. This kid killed people and the Aurora shooter killed many more. Both were US citizens. If you are going to treat this kid as a terrorist you need to charge the aurora shooter, as well as dozens of other killers, as a terrorists. I think people see muslim and automatically assume they are affiliated with a terroristic organization but so far none have claimed responsibility. Al Qaeda has even denied what could have been an easy moral booster to their organization. So in the end I think this kid is a killer like any other but his face will be the face of terror until the next attack comes. If we are basing him being a terrorist on the fact he is muslim then every other muslim should be a terrorist anytime they commit a crime. Or if it is because they kill multiple people then there are a lot of terrorists out there. Or if it is because he used explosives then there are a lot of killers out that have used an explosive. I think, in the end, he is just a killer that used and explosive to kill. He is still a sick individual that should be held accountable in the same way as any other citizen who committed a similar crime.

 

We have a much larger problems than terrorists. The "Global War on Terror" is name used to garner support for a lot of the operations we do that are questionable at best and outwright wrong at worst. Everyday we are killing innocent people in other countries in this "Global War on Terror". On top of that the rights of US citizens are being trampled on every day in the name of the "Global War on Terror". Our guns will eventually be taken away by the governement in the name of this "Global War on Terror" because the powers that be are already trying to connect the two to garner support. Our right to privacy has, and will continue to, be eroded by the government every day because of the"Global War on Terror". Almost every article in the Bill of Rights will likely be be null and void before the "Global War on Terror" is declared over, if it ever is. And the "Global War on Terror" will be the excuse given every time a right we once had is taken away. And if you think about all that has been taken away from us then you realize the terrorists are winning. Terrorist, by definition, is the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion. We have been coerced, by the terrorist and our own governemnt, to accept the loss of freedom(s) as acceptable in hopes of preventing terrorism. And in my eyes the terrorists win every time we are coerced into believing that loosing just one more freedom for the hope of security is acceptable.

 

I believe it isn't the terrorists most Americans have to worry about but what the government does in the name of preventing terrorism.

 

Then beyond this fear of terror we have our economy that is getting worse every day and that is what really worries me. I believe all the terrorist attacks combined will pale in comparison to the death toll if our economy collpased, even if only for a few months. But a collapse is what is needed to reset everything. When you consider how many actually depend on their benefit then you will see how bad it will be when those benefits stop. And in the wake of any type of collapse there will be even more freedoms taken away.

[DaveS]

Did I see them "frisking" the occupants of that house as they came outside? That's just a little much. I guess I'd been shot, because I would probably have had my handgun on me at the time. I wouldn't mind them coming in and checking around, but pushing, shoving and grabbing me by the arms, and patting me down wouldn't fly!

 

Dave S

[bigbabysweets]

So one in 20 people were doing it right? I wouldn't classify this as a combat zone just because a person was killed with a bomb. I think it comes down to the targets. I feel that in some instances they took their power too far. I don't feel that the guy was afraid of the cameraman behind a closed window, that's why no one else is looking his way. If he had thought that he was in danger, wouldn't he announce it to everyone else? He was just being a tool and pointing a gun a guy in the window because he could, and there's some slim argument of, "How'd I know what he was doing?" I think there should be difference between patrolling Afghanistan where more than 1 in 300 million might shoot at you and Boston. I just don't think he was acting professionally.

Unless it comes down to accounts of people shooting from closed windows, they shouldn't be pointing into closed windows. It might sound like a small difference, but when do we draw the line? I mean, technically, isn't there always a chance they could be shot from a window? I think if the people like this keep doing stupid things like this, it will raise tensions, and will cause people of the U.S. to shoot from their windows.

[DaveS]

Back during Katrina, a National Guard truck full of troops pulled into town. The troops in the back of the truck had their M-16s layed across the bench seats and had them pointed at the houses and businesses. General Honere (sp) told those troops that this wan't Iraq, this is the united states. Put those rifles down and stop pointing them at american citizens. Maybe Boston should have followed that!

 

Dave S

[MacGyver]

How we treat our prisoners, "terrorist" or otherwise has much more to say about us than it does them - or even the questionable intelligence we may gain through the employment of "enhanced interrogation" techniques.  If you believe that the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are in fact unalienable, natural or God given, then denying them to a prisoner will do more harm to you than it does them in the long run. 

 

This isn't really a new problem, either.  Do some reading on WWII's Operation Pastorius to see how we struggled to deal with German sabotuers, and ended up providing them counsel.

 

History will record for the generations the actions we take to respond to events in the present.  The story we leave our grandchildren matters. 

 

While no one would wish to have to make these choices, this is as much about us as it is them.

[DaveS]

How we treat our prisoners, "terrorist" or otherwise has much more to say about us than it does them - or even the questionable intelligence we may gain through the employment of "enhanced interrogation" techniques.  If you believe that the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are in fact unalienable, natural or God given, then denying them to a prisoner will do more harm to you than it does them in the long run. 

 

This isn't really a new problem, either.  Do some reading on WWII's Operation Pastorius to see how we struggled to deal with German sabotuers, and ended up providing them counsel.

 

History will record for the generations the actions we take to respond to events in the present.  The story we leave our grandchildren matters. 

 

While no one would wish to have to make these choices, this is as much about us as it is them.

Very very well said Mac!!!

 

Dave S

[East_TN_Patriot]

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/22/judge-napolitano-dangerous-start-talking-about-suspending-constitutional-liberties

 

Napolitano said that "there's not a scintilla of evidence that these guys had any involvement with any organized group, domestic or foreign," which he said would have to be established before Tsarnaev can be labeled an enemy combatant. Varney argued that maybe the government could get more information on that subject if they could talk to Tsarnaev without a lawyer present.

"Guess what. The Fifth Amendment prevents us from 'getting' what we want to get out of him. If you want to suspend his Fifth Amendment right, there will be no limit to whose rights you can suspend!" said Napolitano, pointing out that the younger brother is a U.S. citizen and therefore gets the same "panoply" of constitutional rights that anyone else would.

 

Read more: http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/04/22/judge-napolitano-dangerous-start-talking-about-suspending-constitutional-liberties#ixzz2RFFaMA14

 

[Oh Shoot]

Tsarnaev was charged and read his Miranda rights today.

 

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Good, now interview him and get this over and done with as soon as possible. That way he can meet his 72 virgins and I wonder if they are women or men or goats though. You know what I am hoping for.

 

The longer this drags on the more the radicals will begin to honor him and we do not need that.

Edited April 23, 2013 by Dolomite_supafly