If They Came To Your Door....

[gun sane]

LEOs from all levels of government locked down several areas of Boston while hunting for the fugitive bomber today. Then they began the tedious, but perilous, task of going door-to-door to flush him out. The photos I saw showed them knocking, presumably to ask permission to enter. This got me to wondering what I would say if I opened my door to a group of LEOs, knowing that they are looking for a dangerous killer. What if you refused to give them permission to enter? What if they found a firearm in the course of their search--in Massachusetts of all places.

I can see the headline now: Homeowner Questioned For Refusing Police Entry. What do you think the statist propagandists at MSNBC would do with that tidbit of info? Would you like your name and address broadcast or printed for all the world to see?

The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution says, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I believe I would politely refuse. They could stake out my house if they wanted, but unwarranted search and seizure is just that. The Constitution says nothing about a police emergency that would trump this right of security.

But then there's that word "unreasonable." I wonder if the courts would rule that it is reasonable to let the police in, given the gravity of the situation. Or, do you suppose they got a judge to grant a blanket warrant specifically looking for the perp, and thus any other item found would not be admissible. Any legal eagles out there with two cents to contribute?

 

 

 

[Oh Shoot]

You don't think they can't simply get a search warrant in minutes? Probably already thought ahead on that just in case, may have blanket ones already signed on scene.

 

Besides, this is MA:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBdpINm9UBU

 

- OS

[piercedan]

In a situation like this, I may just give them permission. I normally would resist any search, but I have the right to allow it also. If it lets them tighten the perimeter and check me off the list, I'll play.

[Fourtyfive]

How could they not know if the hunted man was not in the house holding a gun on the home owner or had threatened to set off some kind of "other device" if the door greater said something other than " no reason to look in here , we're fine".

[Jonnin]

I am not sure that a manhunt is "unreasonable" searching of nearby property.   If a search for a dangerous individual who could be hiding near your home is not a reasonable thing for the law to be doing, I do not know what IS.    

 

Not sure I would let them inside to look around, but I do not think the request is unreasonable at all.

[RichardR]

If they didn't have a signed warrant in their hand, with my name & address on it, specifying exactly what they were searching for as required by the Constitution of the United States of America, I'd probably tell them to "go suck off a goat".

But I like being roughed up & handcuffed so don't take that as legal advice.

[E4 No More]

Considering that I don't keep illegal items in my home I'd let them in rather than act stupid.

[npgunner]

I'm sure they don't care and are more than happy to get whatever quick legal fix they need to get in your house. I'm surprised we haven't heard anything about the use of drones yet in this situation.

Brought it up on another thread, but I wonder how many people will be caught in miscellaneous other criminal activity while these searches are going on (I.e. the guy with the hydroponic marijuana plants in his basement/closet) and whether or not they will have legal recourse for these searches.

[piercedan]

It would be a bad time to be operating a grow house!

[monkeylizard]

I think there's a no-fly zone in effect right now over the area. I presumed it was to A keep news choppers away and B clear the skies for surveillance drones. Just because we haven't heard about them doesn't mean they aren't there.

[RobertNashville]

I don't know whether I would consent to a search or not...in a civil society there are laws and procedures that are supposed to be followed and I don't really know if they have been in this case...given the situation I might hedge my bet a bit and grant permission to enter and search for the fugitive they are looking for but nothing else (for whatever difference that might make).

 

I DO know that standing at my front door,  especially given this situation, is probably not the place to have an argument about it...if the police/law enforcement/government are violating citizens' rights as they do this then it's going to have to be settled in court and many days, weeks, months or even years after.

[2.ooohhh]

Wife brought up a good point, if it happened here and when searching they walked into my workshop(where I reload and store ammo and tinker with electronics projects) going by what most of she's seen on TV, I'm only a pressure cooker away from being a terrorist!

 

several pounds of powder - check

BBs, Lead shot, nails - check

miscellaneous wire, electronic circuits and components - check

 

So what keeps me from ending up face down in my front yard in cuffs as a suspected accomplice due to proximity other than refusing the search without a specific warrant?

[RichardR]

Considering that I don't keep illegal items in my home I'd let them in rather than act stupid.

What makes you think that they wouldn't "secure" your legalfirearms so that the dangerous fugitive they are searching for doesn't get ahold of them?

[Fourtyfive]

Wife brought up a good point, if it happened here and when searching they walked into my workshop(where I reload and store ammo and tinker with electronics projects) going by what most of she's seen on TV, I'm only a pressure cooker away from being a terrorist!
 
several pounds of powder - check
BBs, Lead shot, nails - check
miscellaneous wire, electronic circuits and components - check
 
So what keeps me from ending up face down in my front yard in cuffs as a suspected accomplice due to proximity other than refusing the search without a specific warrant?

See any black suburbans in your driveway ? :)

[E4 No More]

What makes you think that they wouldn't "secure" your legalfirearms so that the dangerous fugitive they are searching for doesn't get ahold of them?

I don't go in for the paranoid crap. Having been a LEO I can assure you that they have bigger fish to fry in this circumstance, and just like the street your doorstep is NOT the place to argue with the Popo.

Edited April 19, 2013 by SWJewellTN

[Hi Point Hooligan]

Wife brought up a good point, if it happened here and when searching they walked into my workshop(where I reload and store ammo and tinker with electronics projects) going by what most of she's seen on TV, I'm only a pressure cooker away from being a terrorist!

 

several pounds of powder - check

BBs, Lead shot, nails - check

miscellaneous wire, electronic circuits and components - check

 

So what keeps me from ending up face down in my front yard in cuffs as a suspected accomplice due to proximity other than refusing the search without a specific warrant?

 

Don't worry you live in Brentwood.  :yuck:  :rofl:

 

Wife brought up a good point, if it happened here and when searching they walked into my workshop(where I reload and store ammo and tinker with electronics projects) going by what most of she's seen on TV, I'm only a pressure cooker away from being a terrorist!

 

several pounds of powder - check

BBs, Lead shot, nails - check

miscellaneous wire, electronic circuits and components - check

 

So what keeps me from ending up face down in my front yard in cuffs as a suspected accomplice due to proximity other than refusing the search without a specific warrant?

Don't worry you live in Brentwood :yuck:  :rofl:

[RichardR]

I don't go in for the paranoid crap. Having been a LEO I can assure you they they have bigger fish to fry in this circumstance, and just like the street your doorstep is NOT the place to argue with the Popo.

It's happened before in the past, I am sure it'll happen again in the future.

I certainly hope that that sort of thing isn't happening in this current ongoing crisis, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised to hear of exactly that happening either.

Hard to know for certain these days, I guess we'll find out once folks who's homes were searched are able to get their stories out, but calling the possibility "paranoid crap" is ignoring all of the past instances in which stuff like that has happened.

[Moped]

I probably would comply, but I would have misgivings without a proper search warrant.

[DaveS]

I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to comply? We all talk silly now, but if the cops knocked on our doors right now, we'd be saying "yes suh, yes suh, no suh.....I beleive we'd all help out.

 

Dave S

[2.ooohhh]

Don't worry you live in Brentwood.  :yuck:  :rofl:

 

Don't worry you live in Brentwood :yuck:  :rofl:

 

The likelihood of the ATF/FBI/SS knocking on my door looking for "a fugitive" has crossed my mind before. . . "kwik" is only a few houses down.  :ugh:

[LagerHead]

I am not sure that a manhunt is "unreasonable" searching of nearby property.   If a search for a dangerous individual who could be hiding near your home is not a reasonable thing for the law to be doing, I do not know what IS.    

 

Not sure I would let them inside to look around, but I do not think the request is unreasonable at all.

 

The rub here is that in order to legally search your property YOU must be suspected of a crime. I just don't want people in my house for any reason other than an invitation to dinner from me. I would cooperate but I wouldn't let them in. That's not an indictment of police or anything, it's just my rule and it isn't flexible regardless of the gravity of the situation. 

 

Considering that I don't keep illegal items in my home I'd let them in rather than act stupid.

 

Can you please explain to me how exercising rights granted by your creator and protected by The Constitution is "act[ing] stupid"? I obviously missed something here. Just because I have nothing to hide doesn't mean I should give up my rights. It's exactly that kind of thinking that politicians in places like Chicago love to push. "The only ones that have anything to worry about are criminals so just go along with what my minions...er I mean police officers tell you to do." No, I'll just take my freedoms supersized, thanks.

[LagerHead]

I don't go in for the paranoid crap. Having been a LEO I can assure you that they have bigger fish to fry in this circumstance, and just like the street your doorstep is NOT the place to argue with the Popo.

 

Tell that to the folks that were tackled in their homes in New Orleans during the aftermath of hurricane Katrina for simply refusing to accept an unlawful condition of martial law. Was that paranoid crap? 

 

I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to comply? We all talk silly now, but if the cops knocked on our doors right now, we'd be saying "yes suh, yes suh, no suh.....I beleive we'd all help out.

 

Dave S

 

Then you believe wrong. I am not one to get diarrhea of the mouth and spout a bunch of crap simply because I am protected by the anonymity afforded by an Internet forum. I would absolutely refuse a search in 100% of circumstances whether I am breaking the law or not. It is a matter of principle to me. Whether or not you agree with that principle is a completely different matter. I am not making a judgment about those who would let the police in. If you want to, great. I support that decision as fervently as I support the decision of those who, like me, are not going to voluntarily allow it. Ain't freedom grand? 

[Slpeod]

I don't go in for the paranoid crap. Having been a LEO I can assure you they they have bigger fish to fry in this circumstance, and just like the street your doorstep is NOT the place to argue with the Popo.

 

If not your doorstep then where?  Do you think in court after your rights have been violated? 

 

Do not misconstrue my comments as entirely related to this situation as I'm all for helping LEOs and would allow them entry.  All LEOs however, are not the same nor are all communities and if society doesn't have the right to question and ascertain the validity of a search or any other activity on there own property then we have just truly become sheep.  Society must question and must push back to establish the acceptable social policies of the government.  If as you say we do not argue with the "popo" on our doorstep and tolerate acts or policies that violate the principals our Nation was founded upon we will continue to lose our rights to be free and secure. 

 

I will argue with you, save that for those that have no rights and are taking the government handouts.  Until the government is entirely socialist and I'm no longer paying for my property and effects there will be questions. 

Edited April 19, 2013 by Slpeod

[gregintenn]

If one or more of my local law enforcement agents knocked on my door, and politely and professionally explained the situation and what they were looking for, and it made sense, I would invite them in to have a look around.

 

If they kicked the door in in the middle of the night unannounced, I'm doing all I can to protect my family from an unwelcome intruder.

 

If they couldn't or wouldn't explain what was going on to my satisfaction, they would be asked to leave at once.

 

They need to find the guy, and I am not going to interfere.....BUT HE AIN'T HERE!!!

Edited April 19, 2013 by gregintenn

[gregintenn]

I don't go in for the paranoid crap. Having been a LEO I can assure you that they have bigger fish to fry in this circumstance, and just like the street your doorstep is NOT the place to argue with the Popo.

I disagree. It is mine, and it is THE place where I can do as I damn well please within the bounds of the law and other people's rights.