Out of state guns from family member who passed

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

I know a guy who lives in TN but his in-laws live in another state. The father-in-law died a couple weeks ago. Apparently after the funeral the entire family was back at the father-in-law's house sort of dividing up some of his stuff which included a handgun and a couple rifles. No one wanted them except this guy I know so everyone (I guess more importantly the widow) said, "sure, take them", which he did.

He was telling me about this and I asked where the guns are now and he says they are at his house, in TN. I asked how they got there and he said "in my car." So I started to warn him that maybe he should have used a FFL, but I wasn't sure.

So my question is, "did this guy just break the law?" Should he have used a FFL to transfer the firearms to TN? Or is that only for firearms sales? Technically I guess the mother-in-law owned the guns by way of her husband's death and she gave the guns to my buddy as a gift.

[Guest bkelm18]

Since a transfer of ownership took place with residents of two different states, I'm going to have to say that he did break the law. It should have been transferred though an FFL.

[saintsfanbrian]

Well, since no will and testimony led to the exchange of ownership there is no "paper trail".

Should they have gone through an FFL? Probably since 2 states were involved.

IANAL though so you might want to talk to one of them.

[Guest AeroEngrSoftDevMBA]

You mean HE might want to talk to a lawyer. It's not me. I wish it were I'd love to have three guns dropped in my lap like that.

[Guest Grout]

I am sure this sort of thing happens every day and the ATFE has more important things to worry about than somebody taking Grandpa's shotgun or deer rifle and pistol back home with them after the funeral.

[Fallguy]

I am sure this sort of thing happens every day and the ATFE has more important things to worry about than somebody taking Grandpa's shotgun or deer rifle and pistol back home with them after the funeral.

My thoughts as well.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

My thoughts as well.

+1

May not be the legal answer, but...

Also, who's to say that at some point in time the in-law didn't live here for some period of time and give it to him then. Who's to say that he didn't sell it to a resident of his state, who latered moved here and crossed his path. Who's to accurately say that any number of reasons why it ended up here didn't occur. With FTF transactions, there really is no documented account for how a weapon ends up wherever it ends up. And with the last names being different, the BATFE wouldn't assume they were related anyway... especially by law. So by some random mystery of multiple changes of hands, via FTF transactions, it's now here in TN.

As I said, at the beginning... as long as the firearm itself is legal, and no crimes attached to it, I wouldn't even sweat it. Live and learn.

[Guest nraforlife]

My thoughts as well.

+1

Anyhow, the dog ate the paperwork. He loves BATFE forms says they taste like cat.

[SpacemanSpiff]

I am sure this sort of thing happens every day and the ATFE has more important things to worry about than somebody taking Grandpa's shotgun or deer rifle and pistol back home with them after the funeral.

+1

As I said, at the beginning... as long as the firearm itself is legal, and no crimes attached to it, I wouldn't even sweat it. Live and learn.

Agreed

[midtennchip]

Under the federal law, the prohibition against transferring a firearm to an out-of-state resident does not apply if "the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm [is] made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or any acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence." 27 CFR §478.30(a).

However, technically, your friend did not inherit the guns or take possession through intestate succession (i.e.: no will). As you stated, what appears to have happened is the rightful owners (likely the mother-in-law) gave him the guns. Therefore, the federal exemption doesn't apply and the transaction was prohibited by federal law.

Obviously, some of the previous advice regarding documentation is well taken. I have no idea if the BATFE would make an issue of it, but the technical answer is that someone has committed a federal offense.

Edited July 29, 2008 by midtennchip

[Guest Fltargetmaster]

Lessee here. If Joe Joe Jones from Knoxville goes to Dalton GA to see his friend Bobby Joe Jones and Bobby gives Joe a 1954 .410 as present, and Joe brings it back to TN did anyone break a law?? As I understand it, if TN law says you can only get firearms in TN, then there was a violation. But if there are no TN laws saying that and there are no laws in GA prohibiting the giving of a firearm to Joe for any reason, then Joe and Bobby seem to have all above board. Joe goes out and gets some squirrel. All is OK. Now Bobby can't ship it to Knoxville...that is interstate commerce and an FFL gets involved.

There are plenty of hunters who go out of state to hunt, particularly since elk and moose are not so common in TN. If the hunter acquires a hunting rifle and uses it and ships it home to himself, he ( or she) is not violating any federal laws. As long as the state laws don't prohibit some activity, then it's pretty clear what the federal requirements are. The ATF folks generate a book every year or so that includes all the state and territory laws. Some of the laws in the states are somewhat stupid..( NJ says it's ok to buy a Siminov (SKS) but not a Kalishnikov ( AK) ) When I last spoke to the ATF reps at a major trade show in Las Vegas this winter, the issue about shipping to yourself was clearly defined. As long as there is no "transfer" ( from party a to party shipping is fine. Heck, we all do that when we transport firearms from place to place even on airplanes. They made it clear...you can ship to yourself.

When in doubt get that ATF book and read it. When you do, you will be better versed that most ATF inspectors and agents

[midtennchip]

Please review that booklet again, specifically question and answer B2 on page 176 and 177 of the 2005 version (available here: http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/q_and_a.pdf). The answer states, "a person may only acquire a firearm within the person's own State, except he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's permises in any State, provided the sales complies with State laws applicable in" both states.

Under federal law, both the sale or gift by the original owner and the purchase or acceptance by the receiving person is prohibited unless the transfer meets one of the exceptions. That is, both persons have committed an offense.

[chipperi]

Hmm kinda makes me wonder, a bunch of my guns including my carry gun were my Grandfathers, when he passed my Grandma said get them out of the house. However she did have poa and everything was left to her in his will. I am originally from MD now living in Piney Flats TN

[Guest janwbrown616]

I think you can read a lot into some laws. Was it legal! Probably not!

Would I loose sleep over it, NAW!