Road Rage

[rugerla1]

Ok guys, I've tried to keep quiet about all these pet peeves but I just have to get in here. I can't STAND it when I'm driving down the interstate and girls are passin me with boob jobs and they are wearing clothes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRR! It makes me SOOOO MAD!!!!

[piercedan]

Ok guys, I've tried to keep quiet about all these pet peeves but I just have to get in here. I can't STAND it when I'm driving down the interstate and girls are passin me with boob jobs and they are wearing clothes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRR! It makes me SOOOO MAD!!!!

While I can understand the sentiment, I'm not sure if I agree with the choice of silicone. :0)

[Dolomite_supafly]

The person hitting the rear of another isn't always at fault. If it can be proven that the person in front intentionally caused the accident then they will be at fault. And acting on someone else's signal is not a defense either. If you cause an accident based on someone else's signal then you are at fault. If a person has a right turn signal on and you pull out in front of them thinking they are turning and you are hit it is your fault, not the fault of the person with the signal on.
 
My wife drives the speed limit all the time. On the interstate people probably get upset but as long as she is doing the speed limit she is not breaking the law no matter how much the traffic backs up behind her. We don't care if the flow is doing 75 mph, if the speed limit says 55 mph that is what we are going to do. We don't care how many people are behind us or how upset they are we are not going to break the law or drive in a manner we feel is unsafe for anyone. And for those who do get upset and decide to pull up next to us we generally ignore them.
 
On highways with a speed limit of 70 you can legally reduce your speed to 55 without breaking the law.

Dolomite, I'm obviously somewhat new here, but are you an attorney? You are making some conclusory statements in your first paragraph. TN uses a comparative fault tort standard, which parallels other state contributory negligence standards.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) summarizes Tennessee mimimum speed laws on highways as follows (all taken from Tennesse Code Annotated):



I. No person shall operate a motor vehicle at such a slow speed as to impede the normal and reasonable movement of traffic. '55-8-154(a)
II. On interstate and four-lane controlled-access highways, it is unlawful for a person to operate a motor vehicle in the left lane at a speed <55 MPH.
'55-8-152(d)
III. A person, driving at less than the normal speed of traffic, shall drive in the right-hand lane then available for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway. '55-8-115(




Although this supports your comment that one may drive as low as 55mph, this may not be performed in the left hand lane. And, combining with III, it should be done in the right-most lane.

Again, my point as articulated in my two prior posts is this: you are all TN handgun carry permit holders (assuming this, considering that is what this forum is dedicated to). As such, you have a tremendous responsibility to act with great care, for any situation you are involved in can turn deadly. When driving, it is not about "what I can do without breaking the law" or whether you "feel they are driving in an unsafe manner." In fact, you may be contributing to the unsafe scenario simply by blocking them in and making them wait. Move aside, let them pass at the first possible opportunity. It will make your day, and theirs, proceed smoother. Holster your righteous indignation that someone else is breaking the law. As another poster above stated, simply smile to yourself when that aggressive fellow is being ticketed by police a mile down the road.

Please tell me where anything I said in the first paragrpah is untrue.
 

I said nothing about right lane vs left lane when it comes to the speeds. You are trying to argue something I never said and not sure why.

I will say this. We, as in my wife and I, will not go above the speed limit just because someone behind us wants to go faster. I do not care if the flow of traffic is 80 mph, if the speed limit is 40 mph that is where we will be. Me doing the speed limit is not what is making it dangerous it is those who feel the need to go above the speed limit. Allowing another to influence you into breaking the law is no excuse. If it upsets someone that they are going to be late because I am doing the speed limit that is their problem, not mine.

[RED333]

I drive a LOT, going from kitchen to kitchen fixing cooking gear.

Drivers that speed are a large cause of wrecks, I have seen this.

The speeder might not get in the wreck, but cause others to wreck.

I do the speed limit or slower, 65 to 70 where it is OK, less on city streets.

Most times 5 MPH less than posted. Road rage it a BIG problem, I avoid

it at all costs, I slow down if confronted with it, get away from the nut case.

[TMF]

 

TMF, just a couple points. I apologize if the "righteous indignation" comment was out of line. Perhaps too dramatic. That being said, at least quote my entire post and respond to the valid points I have made regarding deescaling the situation by being courteous. Instead you have continued to cubbyhole your scenario into two possible situations:

a.) if you are actively passing another vehicle (after you admittedly allowed faster vehicles to clear) and you slow down ("However, if I'm actively passing and someone gets right on my bumper at 80mph I am going to react to that by slowing down, not speeding up."), then you ARE exhibiting road rage yourself. It becomes discourteous and unsafe. Complete your pass at the speed you would normally. Why speed down just to spite him? He isn't going to drive right into you.

b.) on two lane "country roads" with "white trash." Casting aside the racial epithet, your anecdotal scenario is limited. Even on rural roads like you describe I find there are plenty of ways to pull slightly onto the shoulder and wave the other driver around. Pulling over does not invite confrontation (you are, after all, still in your vehicle).

 

I am not trying to make this personal (though you clearly are by suggesting I condone violent encounters [and at no point in any of my posts have I said anything to that effect-- I merely pointed out it is a possibility that should be avoided]), I only hope that as you are driving along consider relaxing for a moment and realizing perhaps this "lawbreaker" and "crazy person" is not out to get you. Who knows... perhaps it's just a guy trying to get to the hospital in an emergency (after all, you drive country roads, emergency response times cannot be that fast).

 

Just food for thought. I appreciate the civil, literate, and reasoned discourse.

 

Well thank you for acknowledging your exaggeration.  I also acknowledge that questioning your ability to carry; it was a childish response to what I interpreted to be an insult.

 

With that said, you post still seems to suggest two things:

 

1. I am somehow accountable for the actions of others 

2. It is illegal to slow down in response to a tailgater, yet not illegal to ride someones bumper at an unsafe distance.

 

Perhaps an LEO can clear up number 2 here.  I don't believe you are correct. 

 

Unlike most drivers on the road, the majority of which suffer from rectal cranial inversion, I have SOPs for how I drive.  For example, I travel at approximately 6 miles an hours over the posted speed limit, as I see this as a nice median speed to efficiently move the flow of traffic without opening myself up to a ticket.  When passing on the interstate I will punch it up to about 80 when I'm passing in order to quicken the act.  Sometimes during that I will have someone get on my tail at an incredibly unsafe distance.  I do not believe that speeding up or continuing at 80 mph are acceptable options.  I don't know if you've ever seen someone rear ended at 80 mph, but it is catastrophic.  In all my years driving I've had to react to road hazards by slamming on my brakes on more occassions than I can count, for reasons such as the driver in front of me suddenly braking, or a dangerous obstruction in the road or someone swerving into my lane.  I do not think it is acceptable to take the risk at 80 mph that the person behind me is putting me at, so I slow down to mitigate the risk.  Whether or not I speed back up is dependant on the driver giving me enough space to drive safely.  Sometimes this makes the guy behind me incredibly mad.  I find it amusing and ironic, since if he simply wasn't being an ass he'd get exactly what he wants.  You have categorized this behavior of mine as "road rage".  I don't think you know what that term means.  The very name suggests some sort of rage.  If I'm not raging but the other guy is, I don't see how I'm being violent.  The other person is making the choice to lose his mind. 

 

Also, the scenario you posed regarding a person trying to get to the hospital.  I've had two instances where I believe a person was on the way to an emergency since they were traveling at a high rate of speed and had their hazards on.  I moved over for these people.  I don't believe that the hundreds of tailgaters I have encountered over the years were on the way to an emergency.  I would say they were just being aholes.  That is usually confirmed by them punching their steering wheel and giving me the finger... once again, amusing and ironic since they can get exactly what they want if they weren't throwing a tantrum.  Funny how my three year old already knows better than most adults. 

 

I don't see you changing my mind on this.  Unless you can show to me that slowing down in response to a tailgater is more illegal than the tailgater himself, I will do what I do.  If I get pulled over for doing it I am more than capable to explain the situation to the officer.  I'm sorry that seems to piss in your cheerios for some reason, but I can't help but feel there is a reason for it.

[Guest SWirish24]

Please tell me where anything I said in the first paragrpah is untrue.
 

I said nothing about right lane vs left lane when it comes to the speeds. You are trying to argue something I never said and not sure why.

I will say this. We, as in my wife and I, will not go above the speed limit just because someone behind us wants to go faster. I do not care if the flow of traffic is 80 mph, if the speed limit is 40 mph that is where we will be. Me doing the speed limit is not what is making it dangerous it is those who feel the need to go above the speed limit. Allowing another to influence you into breaking the law is no excuse. If it upsets someone that they are going to be late because I am doing the speed limit that is their problem, not mine.

 

Well thank you for acknowledging your exaggeration.  I also acknowledge that questioning your ability to carry; it was a childish response to what I interpreted to be an insult.

 

With that said, you post still seems to suggest two things:

 

1. I am somehow accountable for the actions of others 

2. It is illegal to slow down in response to a tailgater, yet not illegal to ride someones bumper at an unsafe distance.

 

Perhaps an LEO can clear up number 2 here.  I don't believe you are correct. 

 

Unlike most drivers on the road, the majority of which suffer from rectal cranial inversion, I have SOPs for how I drive.  For example, I travel at approximately 6 miles an hours over the posted speed limit, as I see this as a nice median speed to efficiently move the flow of traffic without opening myself up to a ticket.  When passing on the interstate I will punch it up to about 80 when I'm passing in order to quicken the act.  Sometimes during that I will have someone get on my tail at an incredibly unsafe distance.  I do not believe that speeding up or continuing at 80 mph are acceptable options.  I don't know if you've ever seen someone rear ended at 80 mph, but it is catastrophic.  In all my years driving I've had to react to road hazards by slamming on my brakes on more occassions than I can count, for reasons such as the driver in front of me suddenly braking, or a dangerous obstruction in the road or someone swerving into my lane.  I do not think it is acceptable to take the risk at 80 mph that the person behind me is putting me at, so I slow down to mitigate the risk.  Whether or not I speed back up is dependant on the driver giving me enough space to drive safely.  Sometimes this makes the guy behind me incredibly mad.  I find it amusing and ironic, since if he simply wasn't being an ass he'd get exactly what he wants.  You have categorized this behavior of mine as "road rage".  I don't think you know what that term means.  The very name suggests some sort of rage.  If I'm not raging but the other guy is, I don't see how I'm being violent.  The other person is making the choice to lose his mind. 

 

Also, the scenario you posed regarding a person trying to get to the hospital.  I've had two instances where I believe a person was on the way to an emergency since they were traveling at a high rate of speed and had their hazards on.  I moved over for these people.  I don't believe that the hundreds of tailgaters I have encountered over the years were on the way to an emergency.  I would say they were just being aholes.  That is usually confirmed by them punching their steering wheel and giving me the finger... once again, amusing and ironic since they can get exactly what they want if they weren't throwing a tantrum.  Funny how my three year old already knows better than most adults. 

 

I don't see you changing my mind on this.  Unless you can show to me that slowing down in response to a tailgater is more illegal than the tailgater himself, I will do what I do.  If I get pulled over for doing it I am more than capable to explain the situation to the officer.  I'm sorry that seems to piss in your cheerios for some reason, but I can't help but feel there is a reason for it.

Dolomite and TMF, at no point have I suggested doing anything "illegal." I merely contend that the prudent act is to move aside for faster vehicles. Intentionally slowing your speed below the posted speed limit to further irritate another driver can contribute to their road rage. I did not say that the act of slowing down is "more illegal than the aggressive tactics of the other driver, I am merely saying that one should act in an abundance of caution when carrying a firearm. Confrontations due to road rage are commonplace. Why potentially contribute to that when you can safely avoid it?

[TMF]

Dolomite and TMF, at no point have I suggested doing anything "illegal." I merely contend that the prudent act is to move aside for faster vehicles. Intentionally slowing your speed below the posted speed limit to further irritate another driver can contribute to their road rage. I did not say that the act of slowing down is "more illegal than the aggressive tactics of the other driver, I am merely saying that one should act in an abundance of caution when carrying a firearm. Confrontations due to road rage are commonplace. Why potentially contribute to that when you can safely avoid it?

Well then go back and read my last post and try to understand my rationale. It makes sense. Sometimes I've had to slam on my brakes to react to something on the road. I would not like to do that at 80 mph with someone on my ass, as it will most certainly result in a potentially fatal wreck. Slowing down is the only logical step to mitigate risk. I'm sorry you don't follow that logic, but it's there. That isn't road rage. That is reacting to a hazard. If that makes him mad, all the better. I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next guy. Road rage would be brake checking the other driver at 80 mph.

I still don't understand how this got to be about the interstate anyhow, since I'm rarely on the interstate and if I am I'm usually out of the way of faster drivers before they have a chance to tailgate me. Most of my tailgaters are in and around the city.

[TripleDigitRide]

Since we are on peeves... Semi Drivers.  Here I am kicking it down I40 at a respectable 78ish MPH, making good time and staying out of people's way who want to do 85.  It never fails, two semi's in the right lane.  The rear semi waits until I am within ten seconds of passing and they move on over to pass the semi in front of them.  Now, they don't pass with any urgency, no, the guy passing is doing 66 and the guy being passed is doing 65.  Why can't you do one of two things: speed up...or WAIT UNTIL I PASS!  I mean, I will only be there for five seconds.  No, we have to spend five freakin' minutes doing below the speed limit because you are an A'hole and can't wait five seconds.  I travel a lot, and on a typical drive to Memphis and back, this happens a dozen times. Grrr!

As a truck driver who's truck isn't governed to stay below 70 MPH, I understand your frustration.

[Guest SWirish24]

Well then go back and read my last post and try to understand my rationale. It makes sense. Sometimes I've had to slam on my brakes to react to something on the road. I would not like to do that at 80 mph with someone on my ass, as it will most certainly result in a potentially fatal wreck. Slowing down is the only logical step to mitigate risk. I'm sorry you don't follow that logic, but it's there. That isn't road rage. That is reacting to a hazard. If that makes him mad, all the better. I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next guy. Road rage would be brake checking the other driver at 80 mph.

I still don't understand how this got to be about the interstate anyhow, since I'm rarely on the interstate and if I am I'm usually out of the way of faster drivers before they have a chance to tailgate me. Most of my tailgaters are in and around the city.

You've changed your scenario in every one of your posts. From back country roads (in which case I still vehemently disagree...there ARE places to pull aside and wave the other driver around), to passing situations, to now road hazards. Your logic is flawed and based on your hesitancy to just say "you know what, maybe I should just move aside, even if this guy is driving like a maniac." Instead, you adopt the "I don't have to get out of the way- he is the one driving crazy, not me" mentality.

Sure, both are theoretically correct. But as a carrier of a concealed firearm, I think it more prudent to adopt the former. I think I will now go back to reading and not commenting. I wish you all a pleasant day.

 

And, as an aside, you did indicate you get angry yourself. To quote one of your earliest posts: "It will only piss me off and look for ways to undermine your ability to get to where you're going."

That is proactively escalating the situation. That's something I think level-headed, reasonable firearm carriers should not do. It's was precipitated my first post.

Edited April 19, 2013 by SWirish24

[TMF]

You've changed your scenario in every one of your posts. From back country roads (in which case I still vehemently disagree...there ARE places to pull aside and wave the other driver around), to passing situations, to now road hazards. Your logic is flawed and based on your hesitancy to just say "you know what, maybe I should just move aside, even if this guy is driving like a maniac." Instead, you adopt the "I don't have to get out of the way- he is the one driving crazy, not me" mentality.
Sure, both are theoretically correct. But as a carrier of a concealed firearm, I think it more prudent to adopt the former. I think I will now go back to reading and not commenting. I wish you all a pleasant day.

And, as an aside, you did indicate you get angry yourself. To quote one of your earliest posts: "It will only piss me off and look for ways to undermine your ability to get to where you're going."
That is proactively escalating the situation. That's something I think level-headed, reasonable firearm carriers should not do. It's was precipitated my first post.

I've changed my scenario in every one of my post? I don't understand your point. I was offering up different scenarios for context. Not sure what you want here or what that is supposed to prove.

In regard to getting pissed, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a truthful person that doesn't get pissed when someone is riding their bumper for no reason. I don't know what that is supposed to prove either. If I get pissed that isn't the definition of road rage. Driving illegally and aggressively is. In my world slowing down is not aggressive behavior. Tailgating is. So I don't understand your point here in your suggestion that I am road raging when I am acting in a calm manner. Being pissed doesn't prove anything. I get pissed when I flip through all my presets and there is nothing but commercials, yet I don't bash in my radio. Once again, the rage is in the actions of the person. Slowing down is not illegal or aggressive.

It sounds to me like you just want to argue or you are the type who likes to ride bumpers. Either way, you will not convince me that lawful and safe behavior makes me responsible for the actions of other people or makes me culpable for escalating the situation. I'd like to find a law enforcement officer agree that slowing down is an aggressive provokation.

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

Tailgating is a agressive.. or a passive agressive  thing to do..

I slow down ..or at least do not move as fast as they would like me to do.. They know ist wrong.. they still do it.. screw them.. they want to ride my ass.. 2 can play the game. .I am tired of being nice to peopel and move or stop or pull over..

People text, are on the phone.. eat  and whatnot.. and kill people everyday with their actions.. I dont care if its wrong or it makes me the bad person.I had it with people..( at least today)

[Wyldk2]

I hear ya Sour Kraut.  I pull trailers too( not big horse trailers) but my atv trailer. I am not responsible if the person who is following to close when I have to brake unexpectedly because the idiot cuts in front of me.  Just drive like it is every other day and if they get mad, let them get mad. No sense in dropping to their level.  Not worth an accident or confrontation.

 

I'm tired of being nice too, Been nice and been taken advantage of so, I still am nice, just not nice enough to pull over and let them pass.

 

When they tailgate me or try to start something, I just slow down more. Being in a hurry can kill, but going so slow sometimes causes accidents as well.

[RobertNashville]

It's not about "being nice"; it's about obeying the law and safe driving.

 

The passing lane is for passing; I'm not sure why that concept is so difficult for some to grasp.  And, in just about every stat if you are in the passing lane and you aren't actually passing another vehicle then you are breaking the law.

 

Vehicles that just cruise along in the passing lane also set up a decidedly unsafe situation. Changing lanes, regardless of what lane you are changing from or to, is one of the major contributing factors to traffic accidents.  Left-lane hogs, either on purpose or out of ignorance, force people to move to the right lane or even more than one lane to the right to pass. This not only is a dangerous maneuver (and should be unnecessary) but drivers, by and large, don't expect to have "faster"/overtaking traffic to their right so when they FINALLY decide to get over they often won't look to see if another car is there.

 

I say again, on a multi-lane highway, anybody who sits in the passing lane when they aren't actually passing a slower vehicle is an ass...if they are doing it knowingly/on purpose then they are a dangerous, self-absorbed ass.

 

 

[DaveS]

Well, if the speed limit on the roads around here is, well lets say....45, I drive 45. HWY 41 A and HWY 79 are 4 to 6 lane HWYs. If I'm in the Left lane, Turning Lane, Middle lane or right lane and I'm going the speed limit and it is too slow for anyone....well.....go around. Better yet, stop at the multitude of BP stations and get you a soda drink and enjoy. By the time you get back on the road, it'll be someone else ticking you off and not me.

 

If all else fails, those folks in a hurry can pass like they do in Canada....off the shoulder of the road to the right! The only pet peave I've got is STAY OFF MY BUMPER!!!! I'm subject to do sudden and unanounced things....

 

Dave S

Edited April 19, 2013 by DaveS

[RobertNashville]

As I said....

 

"on a multi-lane highway, anybody who sits in the passing lane when they aren't actually passing a slower vehicle..."

Edited April 19, 2013 by RobertNashville

[DaveS]

I don't drive in the left lane on the interstate as I rarely get on it. But in town I exercise my right to drive in any lane I need to be in. If I'm doing the speed limit, and YOU ARE doing the speed limit, you have no reason nor the ability to pass me. I have had people drive down the turning lane to pass me...that was funny!

 

Dave S

[piercedan]

I don't drive in the left lane on the interstate as I rarely get on it. But in town I exercise my right to drive in any lane I need to be in. If I'm doing the speed limit, and YOU ARE doing the speed limit, you have no reason nor the ability to pass me. I have had people drive down the turning lane to pass me...that was funny!

Dave S

Speed limit? Pshaw! Where is the fun in that? :0)

[Dolomite`s Breezy]

I guess I am an Ass then:)

 

 

Dont care anymore.. I drive the way I feel like driving anymore ..If i clog up the passing lane and you can go around me in the  driving lane... go ahead. :) I am tired of being nice to thers.. I extend  my courtesy to people who are courteous to me.None extented to rude people or peopel who are texting or on the phone sverving to and fro

 

And I have been driving in this country since 1985.. Never a ticket or accident...because I know how to drive .. I guess:)

[DaveS]

I guess I am an Ass then:)

 

 

Dont care anymore.. I drive the way I feel like driving anymore ..If i clog up the passing lane and you can go around me in the  driving lane... go ahead. :) I am tired of being nice to thers.. I extend  my courtesy to people who are courteous to me.None extented to rude people or peopel who are texting or on the phone sverving to and fro

 

And I have been driving in this country since 1985.. Never a ticket or accident...because I know how to drive .. I guess:)

What she said! ^^^

 

Dave S

[TMF]

I haven't been in an accident since I was 16 and haven't been pulled over in TN, ever, and I've lived here for 10 years. I drive defensively and anticipatory.

[DaveS]

I've never had a ticket nor an accident. I've beed involved in two accidents not of my fault. One was I "T-Boned" a school bus at 45 mph that ran a stop sign, and the other some moron was passing on a back country road and hit me headon. That dude paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars! Stupid azz...I still hate that dude for that! Thank You Bart Do'em!

 

Dave S

Edited April 20, 2013 by DaveS

[TMF]

I've never had a ticket nor an accident. I've beed involved in two accidents not of my fault. One was I "T-Boned" a school bus at 45 mph that ran a stop sign, and the other some moron was passing on a back country road and hit me headon. That dude paid out hundreds of thousands of dollars! Stupid azz...I still hate that dude for that!

Dave S

Ha, my accident when I was 16 was all my fault. Foot on the gas, head up my azz. A learning experience and since have made sure that my perceived ability to drive and my actual ability to drive does not differ.

[DaveTN]

I worked a traffic car for a few years and couldn’t wait to get out of it and into district patrol. I have seen plenty of bodies pulled out of wrecks and done plenty of interviews in the ER. Traffic enforcement is where a bunch of a department’s budget is spent and I challenge anyone to show me that where they live “real” criminals hurt and kill more people than bad drivers. If you are screaming in pain in the ER or attending a family member’s funeral I doubt it will make a lot of difference to you that the cause was a bad driver and not a “real” criminal 
 
That said… I would ticket a driver slowing up the left lane of traffic over a speeder any day. However, in our state we a law against “Impeding Traffic”; I don’t think Tennessee has a law like that, but I don’t know. I know people that make a turn on a roadway and get right into the left lane whether passing or not. I usually have to pose the question “Did you get your driver’s license out of cracker jack box?”
 
Having the right of way or not being at fault only counts if you live through it. Many people don’t think about the driver that is so intoxicated he hardly knows what is going on and can’t react to much of anything you do.
 
People involved in accidents go crazy about who is at fault and some have even escalated it to a criminal arrest because either they got a ticket or the other person didn’t get a ticket. Cops don’t determine fault in an accident. Insurance companies act on their own, and courts will make decisions in civil cases. Tickets are just for violations of the vehicle code; not fault in an accident.

[Garufa]

These driving discussions are always great fun.

 

Half the people here understand the unwritten rules of the road, the other half think they own it. 

[RobertNashville]

So true... So true!