M4 Catastrophic Failure

[c.a.willard]

[URL=http://s987.photobucket.com/user/cwillard1983/media/Picture1_zps018a7f1a.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

I get Army safety bullitins fairly regularly and this is from one of those.  The text from the bullitin is below.  Unfortunately it does not discuss the cause of the failure.  My thoughts are this was most likely from a barrel obstruction.  Just thought i would share with the group. 

 

 

"A mobilized Army Reserve Soldier, deployed to the Ft. Bliss Mission Training Center was involved in a potentially fatal near miss live-fire accident at approximately 1909,  on  26 March 2013.  The Soldier was conducting training on Range 6 at McGregor Range when a weapons malfunction caused the Soldiers M4 personal weapon to explode.

 

The weapon was destroyed, when pressure inside of the breach caused the upper receiver to disintegrate.  As per the weapon’s design, the upper receiver broke apart and no  significant injury was received by the Soldier.  The Soldier was wearing all of the appropriate Personal Protective Equipment which included: Helmet, Body Armor (to include DAPS protective shoulder attachments), Eye protection, gloves, and Hearing protection.  The Soldier was treated and released suffering only minor scratches.

 

This accident highlights the value of wearing appropriate protective equipment when conducting live-fire operations.  Firearms  malfunctions often result in serious injury and sometimes death.  PPE works, and in this incident, may have prevented serious harm to a member of our Fighting Team. This accident is still under investigation."

 

 

[piercedan]

That is always my fear when running fast through a mag.  Especially when I used to run full auto or burst.

[c.a.willard]

The upside though is that a round that is underpowered enough to stop in the barrel is also typically to underpowered to cycle the weapon.  You can feel the differece when it happens.  Basically if you fire and you experiance less than normal recoil and your weapon doesnt cycle then you should cease fire and check the barrel for an obstruction.  Unfortunately it doesnt describe the type of training that was being conducted.  If they were doing live fire training that included movement it is entirely possible that be barrel became obstructed by something other than an underpowered round.

[TGO David]

And oddly enough the part that stood out in that article was this...

 

The Soldier was treated and released suffering only minor scratches.

 

It's sad that they have to report scratches.  I'm sure the soldier would tell you he didn't get hurt by it at all.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

I can say that it wouldn't surprise me at all it some sort of debris was blown or otherwise got into the action of an M4 there at 

McGregor Range. That range is basically a sand box and the wind sometimes can kick up quite a fair amount of crap into the air. I spent just under 2 years out at Ft. Bliss. Glad that the soldier is pretty much unharmed, whats a few scratches.

Edited April 17, 2013 by ArmyVeteran37214

[peejman]

 

"A mobilized Army Reserve Soldier, deployed to the Ft. Bliss Mission Training Center was involved in a potentially fatal near miss live-fire accident at approximately 1909,  on  26 March 2013.  The Soldier was conducting training on Range 6 at McGregor Range when a weapons malfunction caused the Soldiers M4 personal weapon to explode.

 

 

 

I'm curious what the underlined means...     Was this literally his personal weapon or was it issued to him (i.e. gov't property)?

Edited April 17, 2013 by peejman

[c.a.willard]

Peejman, Its bad writing is basically what it is.  What they most likely meant was individual weapon.  The army differentiates between individual weapons systems and crew serve weapons systems.   ArmyVet may be able to speak more on that particular range.  It is a possibility that it was a personally owned weapon if mcgregor range has a POW range on it that Soldiers and family members can access.  Each installation runs their POW ranges a little differently so i do not know if range 6 on mcgregor is an actual POW range.  If not then it would definately be a service weapon.   The easiest way to tell would be if there was a bust setting, but the persons fingers are covering the marking areas for the burst/FA setting.

[peejman]

Since it specifies the solider as a reservist, I wondered if funded had degraded to the point that reservists had to use personal weapons, or perhaps could simply choose to do so.  The flat top with flip-up sight configuration also makes me wonder.  I'd expect an issued weapon to have the standard carry handle configuration.

[Poor_Dog]

Which is why I carry a Mini 14, can't trust these newfangled gadgets... 

[c.a.willard]

The flip sight is pretty common as the majority of units now run an optic of some form. no conventinal units authorise the use of a POW for any military related training.

[Clod Stomper]

Which is why I carry a Mini 14, can't trust these newfangled gadgets... 

Hate to tell you this....  but the M-16 predates the Mini 14.  

 

Also don't want to hijack the thread...

 

I assume that the ammo was issue.  In most incidences such as this, the accused culprit is handloaded ammo.  I doubt that this is the case here.  Whether it was a stuck bullet (doubtful) or SEE, the issue ammo is most likely the cause.  I'll certainly be interested in further investigation.

 

And this is what I absolutely love about the AR platform.  Almost any catastrophic failure will not seriously hurt the user.  Conversely, I am acquainted with (friend of friends) a person who experienced a KB with a bolt rifle.  Practically ripped half his face off.  Looking at the scar, he looks lucky to be alive.  

 

I don't shoot centerfire bolt rifles much anymore.  But I feel perfectly safe firing an AR.  Even with handloads.

 

Will

[Poor_Dog]

:usa:

[scoutfsu]

Since it specifies the solider as a reservist, I wondered if funded had degraded to the point that reservists had to use personal weapons, or perhaps could simply choose to do so.  The flat top with flip-up sight configuration also makes me wonder.  I'd expect an issued weapon to have the standard carry handle configuration.

That's because you have zero experience with the Army, and I would guess the military as a whole.

 

The article is badly written and is heavily slanted to cheerlead PPE.....useless f'ing PPE.  Thats why MOB places make SM's wear retarded gear like elbow pads, ginormous knee pads, DAPs, ETC.  1st Army can EATADIK.  Useless slick sleeves.

 

You cannot use your own personal AR.  Never, no exceptions.  There are ways to drop your own upper, but that requires a good CO who is willing to stick his neck out.  Those days are gone.

 

The BUIS is an issued MATECH.  With a few exceptions, the military does not use carry handle sights on it's A4/M4's.

 

This Safety of Use message is worthless and pushes a PPE agenda.  I'm sure SGM's everywhere are loving it.  If only they could wrap a PT belt around the weapon...

[scoutfsu]

Peejman, Its bad writing is basically what it is.  What they most likely meant was individual weapon.  The army differentiates between individual weapons systems and crew serve weapons systems.   ArmyVet may be able to speak more on that particular range.  It is a possibility that it was a personally owned weapon if mcgregor range has a POW range on it that Soldiers and family members can access.  Each installation runs their POW ranges a little differently so i do not know if range 6 on mcgregor is an actual POW range.  If not then it would definately be a service weapon.   The easiest way to tell would be if there was a bust setting, but the persons fingers are covering the marking areas for the burst/FA setting.

MacGregor is where they MOB people.  Bliss's Rod and Gun Club allow POWs but it is not the same place.....or the same state.

 

This was an issue weapon, hence the full PPE being pushed.

[TMF]

That's because you have zero experience with the Army, and I would guess the military as a whole.

The article is badly written and is heavily slanted to cheerlead PPE.....useless f'ing PPE. Thats why MOB places make SM's wear retarded gear like elbow pads, ginormous knee pads, DAPs, ETC. 1st Army can EATADIK. Useless slick sleeves.

You cannot use your own personal AR. Never, no exceptions. There are ways to drop your own upper, but that requires a good CO who is willing to stick his neck out. Those days are gone.

The BUIS is an issued MATECH. With a few exceptions, the military does not use carry handle sights on it's A4/M4's.

This Safety of Use message is worthless and pushes a PPE agenda. I'm sure SGM's everywhere are loving it. If only they could wrap a PT belt around the weapon...

Haha, *enter rant.

[scoutfsu]

Ha, thats just from banging my head against the proverbial wall this past month.  I have never in my life seen so many senior slick sleeves....always heard about them but didn't quite believe it.  How can you be a CSM (yea you, guy at MATOPS, Ft Dix) and never left the country!! How do you look your soldiers with, 1,2,3,4+ year long deployments in the eyes and preach Army?  Definitely a little embittering.......but thats ok, the hate should last me through this tour.  Then we can wash, rinse, repeat. :)

[TMF]

Ha, thats just from banging my head against the proverbial wall this past month. I have never in my life seen so many senior slick sleeves....always heard about them but didn't quite believe it. How can you be a CSM (yea you, guy at MATOPS, Ft Dix) and never left the country!! How do you look your soldiers with, 1,2,3,4+ year long deployments in the eyes and preach Army? Definitely a little embittering.......but thats ok, the hate should last me through this tour. Then we can wash, rinse, repeat. :)

I can empathize completely. I hit tracer burnout on my tolerance which is why I'm sporting a civi tab. Sometimes I try to remember what it's like, but then I get worked up. I've forgotten more dumb chit from my time and repressed even more. When I hear an AD guy go on a tirade it takes me back to a time where my blood pressure was uncontrollable.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

MacGregor is where they MOB people. Bliss's Rod and Gun Club allow POWs but it is not the same place.....or the same state.

This was an issue weapon, hence the full PPE being pushed.

McGregor range is actually across the TX/NM state line in New Mexico. Bliss Rod & Gun Club is not far from post.

[scoutfsu]

Roger ArmyVet.  Thats what I was trying to say...just in a round about, unclear fashion :slap: .  The R&G Club isn't even all that great.  We would just go shooting in the desert.

 

I liked Dona Ana......but hated McGregor with a passion.

[DWARREN123]

Have to say it, Glock M-4?

[Dolomite_supafly]

Who knows maybe the bullet was scared into staying in the bore by the 60-70 mph spring winds. I don't think sand would be enough to cause a problem. It looks like a bore obstruction and probably a squib load rather than something stuck in the end of the barrel.

 

I was at WSMR for a couple of years and the spring winds meant a new paint job on your car and to watch out for tumble dumpsters. The spring wind storms were miserable and were strong enough to pick up marble sized rocks and throw them at you. The winds kicked up so much sand that you always felt like you had a spoonfull of sand in your mouth. I was there when you could actually go to Juarez for the night and have a good time without fear.

 

I guess I got out before the safety craze went full retard in the Army. The most we had was road guard vests at the front and rear of the formations. No knee pads or elbow pads. We did have our share of weak, panty wearing commanders and senior NCO's but they were a rarity before I got out. We also had some great, old school NCO's that realized wearing your heart on your sleeves wasn't the way to win a war. I have had several Lieutenants that were useless and actually had zero common sense. Most start out useless and are molded into decent leaders by NCO's. NCO's were generally better but we still had some were too afraid to make a simple decision without asking for opinions or making phone calls to seek permission.

[peejman]

That's because you have zero experience with the Army, and I would guess the military as a whole.

 

The article is badly written and is heavily slanted to cheerlead PPE.....useless f'ing PPE.  Thats why MOB places make SM's wear retarded gear like elbow pads, ginormous knee pads, DAPs, ETC.  1st Army can EATADIK.  Useless slick sleeves.

 

You cannot use your own personal AR.  Never, no exceptions.  There are ways to drop your own upper, but that requires a good CO who is willing to stick his neck out.  Those days are gone.

 

The BUIS is an issued MATECH.  With a few exceptions, the military does not use carry handle sights on it's A4/M4's.

 

This Safety of Use message is worthless and pushes a PPE agenda.  I'm sure SGM's everywhere are loving it.  If only they could wrap a PT belt around the weapon...

 

 

Sorry if my question touched a nerve, but thanks for the answer.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

I'm trying to find a picture, image or map of McGregor Range. Here is best one I could find at the moment. I did some green shot capturing to get the image. Anyone can find this view on Google maps, so there isn't any real big secrets in the image. Note, this is just a small portion of the Range area. It is much, much larger than what is in this image.

 

Edited April 18, 2013 by ArmyVeteran37214

[scoutfsu]

Sorry if my question touched a nerve, but thanks for the answer.

 

Just the usual frustrated at the Army rant that comes out once in a while.  I wasn't throwing rocks at you.

[peejman]

Just the usual frustrated at the Army rant that comes out once in a while.  I wasn't throwing rocks at you.

 

No worries.  Just don't ask me a question about life in corporate America.  :)