Are you sure a CIII dealer is required for in-state?

[Guest tngunman]

I believe that you can purchase a CIII item directly on a Form 4 from another TN resident and you don't need a dealer. I know several people who've done it successfully. Actually, I know of several Korean War era vets who will not use a dealer to transfer their goodies.

[TGO David]

My understanding of the requirement may be incorrect. If I am, I will amend the stickied post in this forum.

That being said, and if it's not a requirement... the only way that I personally would be willing to sell a Class III item to another person privately would be for that person to pay me 100% of the sale price up front, apply for their tax stamp, then show me their tax stamp assigned to the serial number of that item and then I would let them take possession of said item.

I'm sure everyone will have their own opinion of what they would require as a seller, so this could end up being another discussion similar to the ones we've had here about the suggested form to use when privately transferring ownership of non-regulated firearms.

Everyone just needs to be warned that the Fed doesn't mess around with Class III stuff. This isn't like selling grandpa's old 12 gauge shotgun to the nice guy you just met in the parking lot of Wal-Mart. There are serious penalties for doing it the wrong way.

[molonlabetn]

My understanding is that in-state NFA transfers simply require the buyer to complete a Form 4 and mail in their $200 directly.

If you voluntarily go through an FFL, it will actually take 2 tax-stamps... one to transfer to the dealer, and the other to the buyer.

[TGO David]

My understanding is that in-state NFA transfers simply require the buyer to complete a Form 4 and mail in their $200 directly.

If you voluntarily go through an FFL, it will actually take 2 tax-stamps... one to transfer to the dealer, and the other to the buyer.

If that's correct and the transaction would carry a $400 tax tag as a result, the obvious choice is to handle it privately as long as it's being done in-state and in full accordance with the law.

Honestly... as long as people realize that TGO isn't in the business of selling guns, accessories or dispensing legal advice and that the burden of consequences rests squarely on the people involved in any and all transactions, I really don't care how they choose to transfer a firearm privately.

I know how I'd do it, but that's just me. I like to be safe. Some people -- and I do not mean to imply that it's any of us in this thread, just stating a fact in general -- apparently find it's more important to them to thumb their nose at "The Man" and get by with as little paperwork and paper trail as possible. That's their prerogative and I might send them a postcard if it lands them in jail.

Again, this is a whole different ball game with the BATFE than just me selling Jim-Bob a Glock that I don't want anymore. If Jim-Bob doesn't get the tax stamp, then Jim-Bob technically cannot even possess the item in question. And what risk does that put me in with the police and BATFE if I sell a Class III item to Jim-Bob without confirming that he has met the legal requirements to own it?

BIG gray area. And gray areas involving the BATFE are areas I'd prefer to avoid from a personal standpoint.

[Guest jwp]

An instate sale may take place from individual to individual. As with from an individual to an FFL, on ATF Form 4.

Buyer and seller execute the Form.

Seller retains the weapon(s) until approval is granted then transfer takes place.

For it to go through an FFL a stamp is required at each end of the transaction. One to the FFL from the seller and one from the FFL to the buyer.

[TGO David]

Thanks, JWP. I have edited the sticky in this forum to reflect more accurate information.

Everyone... make sure you're doing private transactions the right way! As I have stated countless times, the burden of doing so rests squarely on you as the buyer or seller. If you do it wrong, you are looking at harsh penalties up to and including prison time.

[Guest tngunman]

You pointed out earlier that you'd want 100% payment up front. That makes sense because once they get the form 4 back the weapon is theirs, even if they did not pay for it. Seller retains possession until he sees an original form 4 showing buyer as the owner.

As a buyer, you would want some refund protection if your paperwork gets denied.

Way back when I bought mine there was no internet. I mailed $1800 worth of MOs to an unknown person with and ad in MGN. He was in OR so I had to use a dealer. It all worked out fine.

Edited July 25, 2008 by tngunman

[TGO David]

You pointed out earlier that you'd want 100% payment up front. That makes sense because once they get the form 4 back the weapon is theirs, even if they did not pay for it. Seller retains possession until he sees an original form 4 showing buyer as the owner.

As a buyer, you would want some refund protection if your paperwork gets denied.

Way back when I bought mine there was no internet. I mailed $1800 worth of MOs to an unknown person with and ad in MGN. He was in OR so I had to use a dealer. It all worked out fine.

As I said earlier, that's how I'd do it. If you choose to do it differently that's between you and the other party and is totally your prerogative.

For what it's worth, I think society's values have plummeted significantly since "before there was an Internet". I don't trust people near as much now as I did back then.

[Guest Major Pain]

I just sold a NFA weapon a couple of months ago. I filled out the form 4 and my friend that was buying the weapon got the sheriffs signature and fingerprinted. I also spoke to the sheriff to let him know I was the one selling the weapon (not necessary). I sent off all paper work with my friends check for stamp. When all was approved the paper work with approval stamp was sent to me. I delivered weapon with all paper work and stamp at same time and completed the transaction. Much easier and cheaper to sell in state than out.--MP

[Guest jwp]

You can always have the tax stamp invalidated and the purchaser 'dis-approved' if something happens or the buyer backs out. It's another step, but it can be done.

In a FTF, person to person transaction the seller must, must, must retain the item until the Form 4 comes back approved. No matter how tempting it might be to say, "Well I've known Clem for twenty years, we went to high school together, he's one heck of a guy. His paperwork is going to come back A-OK, so I'll just let him hang on to it until it does." It's a felony.

But, that doesn't mean you can't meet up and shoot it as long as the actual owner (seller) is present.

[Guest tngunman]

My $1800 was the full price. I totally agree about society's values plummetting. I even hold Cashier's Checks now since they can be stopped or counterfeit.

[Guest moreland281]

In state is fine to do person to person but you must keep the C3 untill the other person is approved for the item via tax stamp (and the stamp will be mailed to the current holder of the weapon) he will then give the weapon and stamp to the buyer (at least that is how it was in my case)

across state lines requires it going from dealer to dealer and then to the buyer and it will require 2 stamps as well