gauging interest on stippling and other grip mods

[joe.40]

I am trying to see what kind of market there would be in the east tn area for stippling,grip reductions,undercutting trigger guards and so.i have been doing these mods to polymer pistols for over 2 years now and im wanting to turn it into a side business.lmk what you guys think and anyone wanting pics of the work pm me

[Grand Torino]

I think the more pictures you put up of your experience the better off you will be. Can't hurt right?

[joe.40]

I understand what ur saying and thank you for your advice.i am going to compile some pics and put the up asap

[Byedan]

Lets see some picks

[joe.40]

Sry about pics guys i have been extremely busy with my full time job i will be having my girl make a fb page in the next couple of days it will be c and s armorer services and i will post all pics i ha e sofar on there and will post on here as soon as its up im sure u will be impressed with my work as ive had no complaints yet.prices will be very good and tgo members will get a 10 percent discount.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Are you a FFL and if so what is the name of the business?

[joe.40]

I am not an ffl so i wont be doing any shipping of serial numbered parts but i will be doing everything with the county such as occupational license and tax id and anything else i need to do to be legal before i start doing any work for profit sofar i have just done guns for buddies and done my own stuff.business name will be c and s armorer services

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you take possession of a serialized part for the purpose of doing ANY work you must have a FFL. Even if it is with your neighbor you still need a FFL to be able to do any work. Shipping of serialized parts or not shipping of serialized parts has nothing to do with it.

 

The FFL has nothing to do with county licenses, it is a federal license and no amount of county paperwork can circumvent it.

 

Just trying to keep you out of hot water. You will have at least one customer that will not be happy and try to grief you. If you don't have an FFL it will be easy.

[Trekbike]

I was not aware of that fact. In the following scenario, would that still be the case?

Say your wife for example wanted a different set of sights put on her pistol and the gun was purchased by her, you wouldn't be allowed to install them? Or another example, a different set of grips? Or does that law only apply outside family members?

Or and I suspect this is the case, "as a part of conducting a business". So if you do something free, is that okay?
Edited May 3, 2013 by Trekbike

[DaveTN]

I was not aware of that fact. In the following scenario, would that still be the case?

Say your wife for example wanted a different set of sights put on her pistol and the gun was purchased by her, you wouldn't be allowed to install them? Or another example, a different set of grips? Or does that law only apply outside family members?

Or and I suspect this is the case, "as a part of conducting a business". So if you do something free, is that okay?

Those laws use the wording “intending to engage in business”.

[TripleDigitRide]

Interesting. Unless there's something I'm missing, that's one of the dumbest laws I've heard of. Does anyone know the purpose of said law?

[joe.40]

Ty for that info dolomite i will have to contact atf i guess about getting an ffl.i work private security for the military and the last thing i need is some fed charge

[Dolomite_supafly]

It really isn't that expensive to get teh FFL. The killer will be the insurance.

[joe.40]

I called batfe and left a message so now im just waiting on a call back

[Dolomite_supafly]

I called batfe and left a message so now im just waiting on a call back

Local or national?

 

Here is their read on the process:

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

[Oh Shoot]

Those laws use the wording “intending to engage in business”.

 

No "intending" mentioned. The phrase is "engage in the business of" or "engaged in the business of"

 

As far as gunsmithing, "engaged in the business of" is a type of "dealer" which is defined as:

 

"...any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms"

 

and "engaged in the business" of that is defined as:

 

"...a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to engaging in such activity as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit, but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional repairs of firearms, or who occasionally fits special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms"

 

Just quoting from "18 USC § 921 - Definitions" -- I do not know what the ATF actually requires for what in real world.

 

- OS

Edited May 4, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[joe.40]

Ty for that info sir and just to be on the safe side i will be getting in contact with an official from their business and trade division on moday before i go any further with doing any work

[Oh Shoot]

Ty for that info sir and just to be on the safe side i will be getting in contact with an official from their business and trade division on moday before i go any further with doing any work

 

I suppose there may well be additional rules about taking in firearms for any kind of work, but the definition of "dealer" in this case doesn't actually seem to include what you want to do.

 

Do report  here what they tell you, please.

 

- OS

[joe.40]

Thats what i was thinking and i sure will sir

[DaveTN]

No "intending" mentioned. The phrase is "engage in the business of" or "engaged in the business of"

 

 

Look up the licensing statues and not the definitions. The first two paragraphs both start with the words “Each person intending to engage in business”.

My point was in addressing Trekbikes question is that intent to engage in a business is an element. He isn’t going to be charged for changing sights or a set of grips.

[Oh Shoot]

Look up the licensing statues and not the definitions. The first two paragraphs both start with the words “Each person intending to engage in business”.

My point was in addressing Trekbikes question is that intent to engage in a business is an element. He isn’t going to be charged for changing sights or a set of grips.

 

Couldn't find them. But wording aside, the real question is whether what the OP purports to do regarding stippling falls under the requirements of needing a type 1 FFL for gunsmithing at all.

 

- OS

[joe.40]

I hope it doesnt because i will be the first to admit i am far from a gunsmith im a parts changer and can do polymer reshaping and stippling and polish certain parts

[DaveTN]

Couldn't find them. But wording aside, the real question is whether what the OP purports to do regarding stippling falls under the requirements of needing a type 1 FFL for gunsmithing at all.

 

- OS

Well… reminds me of an old guy that I stopped for speeding. He had never had a driver’s license…. ever.  So he had to go to HQ to post a cash bond on the ticket. I’m making small talk while we are waiting around for the desk clerk to do the paperwork. I ask why he never got a driver’s license. He replied “I never needed one until now.”

[Oh Shoot]

Well… reminds me of an old guy that I stopped for speeding. He had never had a driver’s license…. ever.  So he had to go to HQ to post a cash bond on the ticket. I’m making small talk while we are waiting around for the desk clerk to do the paperwork. I ask why he never got a driver’s license. He replied “I never needed one until now.”

 

Nifty story, but not an analogous one unless OP's service does indeed require a license under the regs.

 

But I suspect ATF will say it does, just as per ATF's simple statement here:

 

"Q: Is a license needed to engage in the business of engraving, customizing, refinishing or repairing firearms?

    Yes. A person conducting such activities as a business is considered to be a gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.

    [27 CFR 478.11]"

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/gunsmiths.html#license-activities

 

However, that CFR only verbatim echoes the USC definition of the gunsmithing aspect of dealer which I already quoted,  "any person engaged in the business of repairing firearms or of making or fitting special barrels, stocks, or trigger mechanisms to firearms", and again I don't see what stippling has to do with any of that.

 

But doesn't much matter beyond what the ATF is willing to come after you for, I reckon. Took a damn SCOTUS ruling in 1992 to make them stop flogging folks for most cases of "constructive possession", after all.

 

- OS

Edited May 4, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

I had to look up analogous at dictionary.com. Thanks for the word for the day.

I still think it was similar…. And funny.