Anyone read through S 649 yet?

[LDRider]

The full text can be found at the following link::

 

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/posted-full-text-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act_716249.html

 

Senator Pat Toomey has finally posted the full text of "The Public Safety And Second Amendment Rights Protection Act," the so called gun Senate compromise bill, agreed upon by Toomey, Joe Manchin, and Chuck Schumer. Here's the text of 7,800 word bill:

 

 

Jeff

Edited April 12, 2013 by LDRider

[Oh Shoot]

Far out, thanks Jeff.

Just earlier tonight Hannity and Coulter were saying they couldn't get the actual text yet.

 

 

Here's what seems to be most pertinent part regarding firearm sales/transfers:

 

----------------------------

"(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection and except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed importer to complete the transfer of a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, if such transfer occurs-
"(A) at a gun show or event, on the cartilage thereof; or
"( B ) pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.
"(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if-
"(A) the transfer is made after a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s), and upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee-
"(i) complies with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's business inventory to the unlicensed transferee, except that when processing a transfer under this chapter the licensee may accept in lieu of conducting a background check a valid permit issued within the previous 5 years by a State, or a political subdivision of a State, that allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm, if the law of the State, or political subdivision of a State, that issued the permit requires that such permit is issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the unlicensed transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law;
"( B ) the transfer is made between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee residing in the same State, which takes place in such State, if-
"(i) the Attorney General certifies that State in which the transfer takes place has in effect requirements under law that are generally equivalent to the requirements of this section; and
"(ii) the transfer was conducted in compliance with the laws of the State;
"( C ) the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;"

-----------

 

Note my bolded text.

 

It's hard to believe, but if this stands, there's still no ban on private sales in general, unless:

 

- they happen at a gun show (looks like you must simply leave the "cartilage thereof" and it's legal)
 

- happen as result of on-line/print ads (like that'll be easy to enforce/prove).

 

And as expected, "family" is defined exactly.

 

Although that clause " if (i) the Attorney General certifies that State in which the transfer takes place has in effect requirements under law that are generally equivalent to the requirements of this section" might need some real scrutiny?

 

- OS

Edited April 12, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[RED333]

SEC. 103. RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.
Nothing in this title, or any amendment made by this title, shall be construed to-
(1) expand in any way the enforcement authority or jurisdiction of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives; or
(2) allow the establishment, directly or indirectly, of a Federal firearms registry.

 

Found this, hope it holds up.

 

And this

 

( B) Prohibiting the Seizure of Records or Documents.-Section 923(g)(1)(D) is amended by striking, "The inspection and examination authorized by this paragraph shall not be construed as authorizing the Attorney General to seize any records or other documents other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law," and inserting the following: "The Attorney General shall be prohibited from seizing any records or other documents in the course of an inspection or examination authorized by this paragraph other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation of law.".
(c) Prohibition of National Gun Registry.-Section 923 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:
"(m) The Attorney General may not consolidate or centralize the records of the-
"(1) acquisition or disposition of firearms, or any portion thereof, maintained by-
"(A) a person with a valid, current license under this chapter;
"( B) an unlicensed transferor under section 922(t); or
"(2) possession or ownership of a firearm, maintained by any medical or health insurance entity.".

 

DADBURN it, cant get the smiley faces to go away.

Edited April 12, 2013 by RED333

[Guest Sgt. Joe]

----------------------------

"(t)(1) Beginning on the date that is 180 days after the date of enactment of this subsection and except as provided in paragraph (2), it shall be unlawful for any person other than a licensed dealer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed importer to complete the transfer of a firearm to any other person who is not licensed under this chapter, if such transfer occurs-
"(A) at a gun show or event, on the cartilage thereof; or
"( B ) pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.
"(2) Paragraph (1) shall not apply if-
"(A) the transfer is made after a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer has first taken possession of the firearm for the purpose of complying with subsection (s), and upon taking possession of the firearm, the licensee-
"(i) complies with all requirements of this chapter as if the licensee were transferring the firearm from the licensee's business inventory to the unlicensed transferee, except that when processing a transfer under this chapter the licensee may accept in lieu of conducting a background check a valid permit issued within the previous 5 years by a State, or a political subdivision of a State, that allows the transferee to possess, acquire, or carry a firearm, if the law of the State, or political subdivision of a State, that issued the permit requires that such permit is issued only after an authorized government official has verified that the information available to such official does not indicate that possession of a firearm by the unlicensed transferee would be in violation of Federal, State, or local law;
"( B ) the transfer is made between an unlicensed transferor and an unlicensed transferee residing in the same State, which takes place in such State, if-
"(i) the Attorney General certifies that State in which the transfer takes place has in effect requirements under law that are generally equivalent to the requirements of this section; and
"(ii) the transfer was conducted in compliance with the laws of the State;
"( C ) the transfer is made between spouses, between parents or spouses of parents and their children or spouses of their children, between siblings or spouses of siblings, or between grandparents or spouses of grandparents and their grandchildren or spouses of their grandchildren, or between aunts or uncles or their spouses and their nieces or nephews or their spouses, or between first cousins, if the transferor does not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the transferee is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal, State, or local law;"

---------

 

- OS

OK Shoot, does my bold text mean that even a listing here on TGO could be considered a listing on the internet....which it is, or does it just mean gun sales sites like Buds and Gun Broker?

 

And does the other part mean that permit holders would now be exempt from background checks as they are in some other states so long as their permit was still valid?

 

If my thinking on this is correct the first part would be a net loss for us here but the second part would be a pretty good win for us with permits.

 

And please excuse me if I totally missed it all, it is still early for me today.

[Guest PapaB]

pursuant to an advertisement, posting, display or other listing on the Internet or in a publication by the transferor of his intent to transfer, or the transferee of his intent to acquire, the firearm.

 

This seems to cover for sale, trade or want to buy ads posted online. That would include websites, social media, forums, newsgroups, blogs etc.

 

This law smells as bad as expected.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

It's definitely a bad piece of legislation. Any law by Congress on this and many other topics they take up

are not in their enumerated rights, to begin with: period! Not for the President to EO,sign legislation, or

cry about any other way. It doesn't matter.

 

And it doesn't matter about precedent, either. It's only one more piece of law that will have to be nullified

because of its place in the Federal Register. That's the only argument that needs to be made against

all these emotionally charged issues by Democrat and Republican statists. I don't expect that because I'm

one of only a few who recognize that. I guess I just don't understand.

 

These damned politicians have to go.

[jgradyc]

I cannot find a definite of cartilage as in at a gunshow, or the cartilage thereof. It would seem to mean as a result of any contact made at a gunshow, since cartilage is a connective tissue. If the trade takes place as result of a discussion at a gun show, it would be connected.

 

That's my take. I'm not a lawyer.

[Guest PapaB]

I cannot find a definite of cartilage as in at a gunshow, or the cartilage thereof. It would seem to mean as a result of any contact made at a gunshow, since cartilage is a connective tissue. If the trade takes place as result of a discussion at a gun show, it would be connected.

 

That's my take. I'm not a lawyer.

 

Whoever copied that had a misspelling. The word in the bill is not cartilage, it's curtilage. It means the area (land) surrounding a house or dwelling.

[Oh Shoot]

....

DADBURN it, cant get the smiley faces to go away.

 

Yeah, the forum software translates "b+right parenthesis" to B)

 

Also, "c in parentheses" becomes (c)

 

You can go back and edit with BB Code off with spaces ( B ), ( c ) or easier, uncheck "enable emoticons" under Post Options

 

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

OK Shoot, does my bold text mean that even a listing here on TGO could be considered a listing on the internet....which it is, or does it just mean gun sales sites like Buds and Gun Broker?

 

This seems to cover for sale, trade or want to buy ads posted online. That would include websites, social media, forums, newsgroups, blogs etc.

 
Yep, that's the way I grok it.

 

- OS

[E4 No More]

"...on the cartilage thereof...." What the heck?

[Oh Shoot]

"...on the cartilage thereof...." What the heck?

 

See post above, first draft typo, should be "curtilage".

[E4 No More]

See post above, first draft typo, should be "curtilage".

Point poorly made was that they didn't even proof-read it. I guess they has to pass it to know what's in it. :shrug:

[Oh Shoot]

Point poorly made was that they didn't even proof-read it. I guess they has to pass it to know what's in it. :shrug:

 

Gotcha.

 

Well, it probably will change a lot as it goes.

 

I honestly can't believe the left will settle for continuing to allow private sales period, but maybe they'll have to.

 

- OS

[Sam1]

It's out, I just haven't had a chance to sit down and decipher it yet.. was curious if anyone has and knows the cliff's note version.  if not, here's the bill

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/manchin-toomey-background-checks-bill_n_3065100.html?icid=hp_politics_top_art

[Oh Shoot]

It's out, I just haven't had a chance to sit down and decipher it yet.. was curious if anyone has and knows the cliff's note version.  if not, here's the bill

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/11/manchin-toomey-background-checks-bill_n_3065100.html?icid=hp_politics_top_art

 

Yep, whole thread started last night:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/64045-full-text-of-the-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act/

 

Surprisingly relatively little comment in it yet, though.

 

- OS

[Fivestring63]

I just glanced through a part of it on my crappy cell phone and I thought I saw a part that said there would be a 24 hour wait before you can receive a firearm bought at a gun show.

[Oh Shoot]

I just glanced through a part of it on my crappy cell phone and I thought I saw a part that said there would be a 24 hour wait before you can receive a firearm bought at a gun show.

 

No. Has something or other to do with time limit on background check determination after a 4 year period of State's record compilation and grant money to do it and some such complicated and probably boondoggle mess.

 

At any rate, it's not a "waiting period" for the buyer.

 

- OS

 

 

edit: hey mods, probably oughtta merge this before they both take off ?,   with:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/64045-full-text-of-the-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act/

 

edit2: Threads merged, thanks.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Oh Shoot

[Worriedman]

Does require that only nursing mothers with babies on the teat under 12 months old can transfer to them a firearm, if the mom is a transferee and the baby is to be transfered to...on a Tribal Reservation, after a consortium of 12 people which may not be consisted of more than 6 from each party and one has to be from mass media has decided they are not veterans or suffer from (and not enjoy) mental coruption...

[Fivestring63]

OK now that I'm at my home computer, I can see it more clearly.

 

 

 

No. Has something or other to do with time limit on background check determination after a 4 year period of State's record compilation and grant money to do it and some such complicated and probably boondoggle mess.

 

At any rate, it's not a "waiting period" for the buyer.

 

- OS

 

 

edit: hey mods, probably oughtta merge this before they both take off ?,   with:

 

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/64045-full-text-of-the-public-safety-and-second-amendment-rights-protection-act/

[Fivestring63]

Looks like permit holders are exempt from the background check.

[Guest PapaB]

Looks like permit holders are exempt from the background check.

 

Nope. Says they can be, at the ffl's discretion. That also won't stop states from voiding that section.

[Bigiron]

USA Carry website posted the entire bill.  Scary reading, if, in fact, that is the REAL bill.  Can't imagine why I am so distrustful of government and politicians.

[Oh Shoot]

Nope. Says they can be, at the ffl's discretion. That also won't stop states from voiding that section.

 

Currently, not every state's permit qualifies for substitution of background check on the 4473.

 

The wording in this section is quite clumsy and general, as it is in several, but looks like there's room for that same provision to stand.

 

Of course, lots of the verbiage will undoubtedly change along the way, we'll see.

 

Also, there are lots of state laws that are in conflict with this section, including Tennessee's, so don't know how that would play out. Not to mention the fact that if no background check were run, TN couldn't charge that 10 clams either, eh?

 

There are plenty of things in this first draft that haven't even begun to have been considered yet.

 

- OS