Lee-Enfield markings?

[Guest goomba]

I recently got my enfield back from the gunsmith. I had it cleaned and looked over b/c I had previously had a primer fall out when I was shooting some surplus ammo.

I've recently done some reserch on the net about the SMLE... & I was wondering if anybody here knows anything about some of these markings that I found under the rear/top handguard.. they are stamped on the base of the barrel where it connects to the reciver.

thanks for any info...

My Lee-Enfield #1 mark 3 SMLE

Here are the manufaturers mark.

a crown.

G.R

B

1942

S (looks like two light strikes) LE

III (& 7pt star)

best pic of the additional markings above the serial # on the upper left (in the light glare) and above the last few digits of the serial #

and here is a few pic of the barrel markings (on the left of the barrel)

[Guest Spuds]

GR=Georgius Rex (King George), monarch when the rifle was born, you probably already read that if you researched it.

Most of the markings under the handguard on the barrel are various proof and hardness test marks I think. If you see ENGLAND, that is an export proof. Perhaps may be a date for when the barrel was made. I've got some decent bookmarks to Enfield markings and proofmarks, but they're on my home PC. Will try to link tonight if I can remember.

[Guest goomba]

mine does not have an ENGLAND mark.

there is also a mark on the butstock, very fait, but it is there. I'll try and get a pic of it up after work

[towerclimber37]

Hiya Goomba.

I recently got into the Ishapore arms Enfield so I ended up looking up proof markings.

here's some of the story on your rifle.

first off, it was a lend/lease to Austrailia. that's where the 7pointed star comes from ...

The seven-pointed star which appears on many Australian military items can be traced back directly to the Australian flag. The original 1901 flag had six stars (one each for the six colonies), each with six points. In 1905 it was proposed to add a seventh point to each star for Papua New Guinea. The 1905 Australian flag is still in use today.

The III denotes that it's a markIII as far as I can discern, though don't hold me to that.

I'm pretty sure that the B. is the marking for what ever forces got the Enfield for defense

The SHT that's the s and the 2 light strikes you were talking about, denote that it's a short lee enfield.

the various proof marks on the barrel are a history of the rifle.

can you get me better pictures of the proof marks on the barrel? and are there any proof marks on the top of the barrel right in front of the sight?

also look on the end of the muzzle, where you would normally install the bayonet.

there will be marks also on the stock, or the buttstock. there should be something on the buttstock with an arrow on it..

it may be faint or worn away..but that's also an indicator the history of the rifle.

oh heck, here's the link..look it up and let us all know

http://www.enfield-stuff.com/codes_&_marks/government_marks.htm

Good luck and good hunting! let us know the history of your rifle will ya?

Edited July 25, 2008 by towerclimber37

[Garufa]

While you're on the subject.....

I have a '42 Lithgow with a Coachwood stock. Have read alot about having brass recoil plates in the stock to prevent cracking which mine does not have.

If you know what I mean let me know.

[Guest goomba]

Hey towerclimber thanks a bunch

Yes, it is a Lee-Enfield #1 mark 3 or SMLE

I'm working on some more pics of the barrel markings... some of them actually look like chinese characters... but I'll get some more pics for ya.

I'll break the rifle down and look at the barrel in front of the sight. I'll let you know.

I do have a mark on the right side of the butstock, Its faded but you can make out the broadhead arrow and the numbers 7-55 below it. they are enclosed in what is supposed to be a circle (the circle looks more like a set of parentheses) and if there were numbers above the arrow, they are too faded to make out.

[towerclimber37]

While you're on the subject.....

I have a '42 Lithgow with a Coachwood stock. Have read alot about having brass recoil plates in the stock to prevent cracking which mine does not have.

If you know what I mean let me know.

I've also read something about that. I don't have any information about it...I think the cracking was mainly coming from bushing screws that would start taking the recoil after the wood shrank up. if the wood were kept in good condition, i.e. out of the elements, oiled and cleaned..I think the shrinkage would be less..so the bushing screws wouldn't break...though I would say check them out to see if they look like they're going to.

[towerclimber37]

Hey towerclimber thanks a bunch

Yes, it is a Lee-Enfield #1 mark 3 or SMLE

I'm working on some more pics of the barrel markings... some of them actually look like chinese characters... but I'll get some more pics for ya.

I'll break the rifle down and look at the barrel in front of the sight. I'll let you know.

I do have a mark on the right side of the butstock, Its faded but you can make out the broadhead arrow and the numbers 7-55 below it. they are enclosed in what is supposed to be a circle (the circle looks more like a set of parentheses) and if there were numbers above the arrow, they are too faded to make out.

see if you can make out the markings there on the stock!!

as for the "Chinese" characters. more than likely they're a version of old english..or proof marks. one of which is this one

The Broad Arrow is the oldest and most common mark of British government ownership. Arrows may be alone, above or between letters. There are many variations of broad arrow.

those guys stamped firearms in such a manner that they (the royal armorers) could read the history of a rifle just by looking at it.

sadly, most of that history has been lost or put away somewhere in the royal archives.

as Sherlocke Holmes would say "the chase is on!!"

lets' just see how much of this stuff we can uncover!

UPDATE: that rifle was sent to the 7th military district in Austrailia on lend/lease from England. Also known as the Northern territory.. It went to Darwin.

Edited July 25, 2008 by towerclimber37

[Guest Spuds]

Criminy! Forgot about this, here's the link I referred to:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh.htm

Several pages of images, this one is particularly useful for the barrel markings:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh7.htm

Re: 7 pointed star, if you are talking about the SIX pointed star after the Roman III, that's simply an asterick denoting it did not have the magazine cut off and a few other changes from the No. 1 Mk III. Rifles after 1915 are generally No. 1 Mk III*.

I'm not seeing anything in your pictures that would indicate a trip down under for this rifle.

Edited July 25, 2008 by Spuds

[Guest Spuds]

While you're on the subject.....

I have a '42 Lithgow with a Coachwood stock. Have read alot about having brass recoil plates in the stock to prevent cracking which mine does not have.

If you know what I mean let me know.

If yours does not have the brass recoil plates, it is likely a bitser made by John Jovino Company. From the pictures, yours doesn't look like a rifle made up by JJCo, you certain it does not have the brass recoil plates?

Here is some info about the Jovino rifles:

http://www.exordinanza.net/schede/leefakes.htm

[towerclimber37]

Criminy! Forgot about this, here's the link I referred to:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh.htm

Several pages of images, this one is particularly useful for the barrel markings:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/gh7.htm

Re: 7 pointed star, if you are talking about the SIX pointed star after the Roman III, that's simply an asterick denoting it did not have the magazine cut off and a few other changes from the No. 1 Mk III. Rifles after 1915 are generally No. 1 Mk III*.

I'm not seeing anything in your pictures that would indicate a trip down under for this rifle.

sweet! thanks for those links! I'm not even going to debate with you about the origin or history of the marks...I was shooting from the hips and have just recently gotten into trying to figure out all the proof marks on these things.

that just goes to show you how off you can get if you don't do quite a bit of studying!

thanks spuds!

and since you seem to have the info, how about this? I have a 6 pointed star on the barrel, where the HV stamp would normally go..but it has a W under it. it's an ishapore .308 enfield.

any help?

Edited July 26, 2008 by towerclimber37

[Guest Spuds]

Not trying to debate, just trying to help. That you were helped as well is super, a two-fer!

Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles frequently started life as another model. (For instance, I have a .22 single shot Enfield that was a #1 Mk III, then a 2A before being converted to the .22lr.) So the star could have come along most anywhere. If it isn't a Lithgow star as you suggested for the other fellows rifle, chances are it's an unknown marking. I've seen it discussed on the gunboards Enfield forum previously, it's been a while. I don't recall what had been suggested, but seem to remember that opinions ran the gamut from a Wheelen marking to South African to even Israeli. I don't have a good memory for this stuff and have to rely on books and web pages like linked previously.

[towerclimber37]

Not trying to debate, just trying to help. That you were helped as well is super, a two-fer!

Ishapore 2A and 2A1 rifles frequently started life as another model. (For instance, I have a .22 single shot Enfield that was a #1 Mk III, then a 2A before being converted to the .22lr.) So the star could have come along most anywhere. If it isn't a Lithgow star as you suggested for the other fellows rifle, chances are it's an unknown marking. I've seen it discussed on the gunboards Enfield forum previously, it's been a while. I don't recall what had been suggested, but seem to remember that opinions ran the gamut from a Wheelen marking to South African to even Israeli. I don't have a good memory for this stuff and have to rely on books and web pages like linked previously.

I thought that the .308 enfields were purpose built on the enfield design and not converted to .308.... from the information that I've read and have been given that's what I got. simply put, they couldn't stand the pressures of a .308 round so they had to be built AS a .308.

they started life as an enfield .308, built in RFI.

[Guest goomba]

thanks for the links spuds... I've actually already been looking at those links.

I have a buddy who is a semi-pro photographer... he's gonna help me get some good pics of the barrel markings... I cant get any pics better than what I posted above.

now I need to order some ammo when payday gets here

[Guest Spuds]

I thought that the .308 enfields were purpose built on the enfield design and not converted to .308.... from the information that I've read and have been given that's what I got. simply put, they couldn't stand the pressures of a .308 round so they had to be built AS a .308.

they started life as an enfield .308, built in RFI.

Of course they are, you are correct. I can't tell you why I wrote that, I don't drink, no one could have slipped me a crack rock as I quit smoking (cigs) last year. I really FUBAR'd that, even the .22lr I wrote about, I was really mixed up, it was a .410 single shot that was made from a #1 Mk III, not a .22lr. It was then lined with a .22lr insert, so the rifle remains a .410 in essense.

The only thing I can figure out I might have been trying to say it is the 2A and 2A1 were directly based on the #1 Mk III, but that sure isn't what I wrote. Sorry, and thanks for the correction!

[towerclimber37]

Of course they are, you are correct. I can't tell you why I wrote that, I don't drink, no one could have slipped me a crack rock as I quit smoking (cigs) last year. I really FUBAR'd that, even the .22lr I wrote about, I was really mixed up, it was a .410 single shot that was made from a #1 Mk III, not a .22lr. It was then lined with a .22lr insert, so the rifle remains a .410 in essense.

The only thing I can figure out I might have been trying to say it is the 2A and 2A1 were directly based on the #1 Mk III, but that sure isn't what I wrote. Sorry, and thanks for the correction!

no worries!

speaking of that .410 rifle...man those things GOTTA be neat!

a .410 based on an Enfield design?? how cool is that!

I too thought that the Ishy Enfields were conversions..but I was disabused of that notion by some nifty research that Phantom 6 did when I picked up my rifle from his shop.