Talk Me Into McCain

[memphismason]

Can anyone talk me into voting for "Bomb Bomb Iran" (McCain)???? ( I am currently saying that I will not be voting for either one)

Everything I have seen (as far as voting records) he is running neck and neck with Barack Osama's record.

Facts, no "I feel this way" or "I think this".....Facts, Records, etc......convince me please that McCain is better than Obama?

I am not wanting to argue, just lay out the reasons why the majority of the members here are so dead set that McCain is better than Obama.

[TGO David]

McCain isn't Obama. That's the best reason I can give you right now.

[dariks]

Unfortunately what Tungsten said is true. That is the only reason I will probably be voting for McCain.

[Bigiron]

No facts here. just clinging to my religion and guns.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

one word should get you to vote for McCain

"Obama"

[memphismason]

C'mon guys.

I want to see "proof" facts, voting records, that shows me that they are not the same.

Could I tell the difference if I was given two sheets of paper, with no names on it, one with Obama's voting record and the other with McCain's voting record??????

They can say and act however they want just to get the votes of the people, but their voting records on issues speaks volumes.

I just want to be convinced, and in doing this, it might help strengthen the McCain supporters, so they don't have to hold their noses when they vote for him, and it might change a person's mind who is planning on casting a vote for the third party, like myself.

Any type of factual records are acceptable. (not just voting records)

[Guest clownsdd]

I forget where I first saw this, but it makes sense.

I believe in a 1-10 scale on voting

I rate a candidate by listing things that are important to me as most people do, but example

Obama has 3 things I agree with him on

McCain has 6

Libertarian has 10.

simple, vote libertarian, no, they don't have a chance in h of winning, and though most people know it, they may not admit it.

My vote in this scenario would be McCain, because he actually has a chance of winning.

Vote Libertarian (or another "third" party in the local, county or state elections. Get enough of them there, you then have a chance of winning "the big ones".

What do ya'll think?

[memphismason]

Brother Clown I saw that somewhere too.....but I am looking for facts.

What I am afraid of is most people are saying "I hate Obama so much that I will vote for the other guy that actual has a chance to win."

I want to know what facts are these choices made on, or are they just personal feelings? I am doubting many facts will arise. As you can see from the posts all ready made.

As bad as everyone wants to admit it, there is no way after the last 8 years, that a Republican will win this election. We all need to get use to saying "President Obama".

[Guest JavaGuy]

One factor you might want to consider is experience. In a way, Obama's experience is kind of like he's the CEO's son. "Barack, we're going to start you in the mail room, let you learn this business from the ground up." A week or so later, he's made the mail-room manager. Two weeks after that, he's made the VP of mail rooms and given the keys to a new company Caddy. At the end of six months, he's the president of the company and has the use of the company Gulfstream whenever he wants to fly off to the Bahamas.

He graduated from Columbia and Harvard. He's practiced law. He's been a local community political organizer. He's been a state Senator in Illinois. He's been a US Senator for part of two terms now. I have no problem with that experience.. I just wonder if it's enough experience. His political experience is legislative in nature, but the job he's running for is as the chief executive of our country. That's a huge shift in viewpoint.

Then there's the other stuff. If the pastor in McCain's church, a church he'd attended for 20 years, had been spewing tripe about America and black folks.. well, the press would still be fighting each other for the opportunity to nail McCain to a tree. Obama got hammered for it, for not having stood up to say, "this isn't right.", but the issue went away fairly quickly.

He might make a great president. McCain might make a great president. Unfortunately, there's only one way to find out.. elect one of them and see how it goes. Obama doesn't have enough experience for me. McCain does.

Just my opinion..

http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=707

[Guest nraforlife]

Your voting for control of the Supreme Court and who will get to fill the up to 3 possible seats

[Guest JavaGuy]

I believe this might be the test you were looking for...

http://www.votechooser.com/

[memphismason]

Finally A Fact:

McCain political career started:

When John Jacob Rhodes, the longtime congressman from Arizona's First Congressional district, announced his retirement, McCain ran for the seat in 1982 and won it. In 1986, upon Senator Barry Goldwater's retirement, McCain was elected to succeed him.

http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/john-mccain/political-career.html

Obama political Career started:

The 46-year-old senator's rise to the presidential race has been fairly quick since he first took public office. Obama served in the Illinois Senate for eight years before being elected to the United States Senate in 2004.

http://media.www.marquettetribune.org/media/storage/paper1130/news/2008/02/19/Election/Balance.Marks.Obamas.Political.Career-3213997.shtml

[memphismason]

I believe this might be the test you were looking for...

http://www.votechooser.com/

No sir that is not what I am looking for.

Read the Original Post.

[Guest tcampbell]

McCain is better when it comes to the 2nd Admendment..and ok...you could still argue that you are going to vote for a third party, but that third party is NOT going to win, it is better to put your vote with the lesser of 2 evils.

Take a look at what Obama has done: (From the NRA Site)

On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama! Friday, June 06, 2008

On the Second Amendment,

Don’t Believe Obama!

The presidential primary season is finally over, and it is now time for gun owners to take a careful look at just where apparent nominee Barack Obama stands on issues related to the Second Amendment. During the primaries, Obama tried to hide behind vague statements of support for “sportsmen†or unfounded claims of general support for the right to keep and bear arms.

But his real record, based on votes taken, political associations, and long standing positions, shows that Barack Obama is a serious threat to Second Amendment liberties. Don’t listen to his campaign rhetoric! Look instead to what he has said and done during his entire political career.

FACT: Barack Obama voted to allow reckless lawsuits designed to bankrupt the firearms industry.1

FACT: Barack Obama wants to re-impose the failed and discredited Clinton Gun Ban.2

FACT: Barack Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting.3

FACT: Barack Obama has endorsed a complete ban on handgun ownership.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports local gun bans in Chicago, Washington, D.C., and other cities.4

FACT: Barack Obama voted to uphold local gun bans and the criminal prosecution of people who use firearms in self-defense.5

FACT: Barack Obama supports gun owner licensing and gun registration.6

FACT: Barack Obama refused to sign a friend-of-the-court Brief in support of individual Second Amendment rights in the Heller case.

FACT: Barack Obama opposes Right to Carry laws.7

FACT: Barack Obama was a member of the Board of Directors of the Joyce Foundation, the leading source of funds for anti-gun organizations and “research.â€8

FACT: Barack Obama supported a proposal to ban gun stores within 5 miles of a school or park, which would eliminate almost every gun store in America.9

FACT: Barack Obama voted not to notify gun owners when the state of Illinois did records searches on them.10

FACT: Barack Obama voted against a measure to lower the Firearms Owners Identification card age minimum from 21 to 18, a measure designed to assist young people in the military.11

FACT: Barack Obama favors a ban on standard capacity magazines.12

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory micro-stamping.13

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory waiting periods.2

FACT: Barack Obama supports repeal of the Tiahrt Amendment, which prohibits information on gun traces collected by the BATFE from being used in reckless lawsuits against firearm dealers and manufacturers.14

FACT: Barack Obama supports one-gun-a-month sales restrictions.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on inexpensive handguns.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports a ban on the resale of police issued firearms, even if the money is going to police departments for replacement equipment.9

FACT: Barack Obama supports mandatory firearm training requirements for all gun owners and a ban on gun ownership for persons under the age of 21.9

[Guest JavaGuy]

No sir that is not what I am looking for.

Read the Original Post.

My apology.. you're correct. It was Clown who referred to a 10 question test.

[Guest Grout]

Vote for whoever the hell you want to.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Vote for whoever the hell you want to... as long as it's McCain.

[Guest tcampbell]

Your voting for control of the Supreme Court and who will get to fill the up to 3 possible seats

+1

[Im Neero]

Your voting for control of the Supreme Court and who will get to fill the up to 3 possible seats

This is why I'm voting for him.

[Falcon1]

These may not be the facts you are looking for, but I believe them to be true:

1) Senator McCain is not a gun-owners best friend, but his advisers will not be tugging on his sleeve asking him to implement new gun control schemes every time he turns around...Senator Obama's will.

2) If you do not vote for Senator McCain, you will not have done everything you legally can to avoid losing your Second Amendment rights. If they are taken away (yes, I know they cannot legally be taken away, but that won't stop some people, and we all know who they are), how will you feel about that?

This is my opinion, worth what you paid for it.

[Guest db99wj]

McCains website

Protecting Second Amendment Rights

John McCain believes that the right of law abiding citizens to keep and bear arms is a fundamental, individual Constitutional right that we have a sacred duty to protect. We have a responsibility to ensure that criminals who violate the law are prosecuted to the fullest, rather than restricting the rights of law abiding citizens. Gun control is a proven failure in fighting crime. Law abiding citizens should not be asked to give up their rights because of criminals - criminals who ignore gun control laws anyway.

Gun Manufacturer Liability

John McCain opposes backdoor attempts to restrict Second Amendment rights by holding gun manufacturers liable for crimes committed by third parties using a firearm, and has voted to protect gun manufacturers from such inappropriate liability aimed at bankrupting the entire gun industry.

Assault Weapons

John McCain opposes restrictions on so-called "assault rifles" and voted consistently against such bans. Most recently he opposed an amendment to extend a ban on 19 specific firearms, and others with similar characteristics.

Importation of High Capacity Magazines

John McCain opposes bans on the importation of certain types of ammunition magazines and has voted against such limitations.

Gun Locks

John McCain believes that every firearms owner has a responsibility to learn how to safely use and store the firearm they have chosen, whether for target shooting, hunting, or personal protection. He has supported legislation requiring gun manufacturers to include gun safety devices such as trigger locks in product packaging.

Banning Ammunition

John McCain believes that banning ammunition is just another way to undermine Second Amendment rights. He voted against an amendment that would have banned many of the most commonly used hunting cartridges on the spurious grounds that they were "armor-piercing."

DC Personal Protection

As part of John McCain's defense of Second Amendment rights, he cosponsored legislation to lift a ban on the law abiding citizens of the District of Columbia from exercising their Constitutional right to bear arms.

Criminal Background Checks

John McCain supports instant criminal background checks to help prohibit criminals from buying firearms and has voted to ensure they are conducted thoroughly, efficiently, and without infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens.

Background Checks at Gun Shows

At a time when some were trying to shut down gun shows in the name of fighting crime, John McCain tried to preserve gun shows by standardizing sales procedures. Federal law requires licensed firearm sellers at gun shows to do an instant criminal background check on purchasers while private firearm sellers at gun shows do not have to conduct such a check. John McCain introduced legislation that would require an instant criminal background check for all sales at gun shows and believes that such checks must be conducted quickly to ensure that unnecessary delays do not effectively block transactions.

The Firearm Purchase Waiting Period

John McCain has opposed "waiting periods" for law abiding citizen's purchase of firearms.

The Confiscation of Firearms After an Emergency

John McCain opposes the confiscation of firearms from private citizens, particularly during times of crisis or emergency. He voted in favor of an amendment sponsored by Senator David Vitter prohibiting such confiscation.

Stiffer Penalties for Criminals Who Use a Firearm in the Commission of a Crime

John McCain believes in strict, mandatory penalties for criminals who use a firearm in the commission of a crime or illegally possess a firearm. Enforcing the current laws on the books is the best way to deter crime.

From votesmart.org

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=53270&type=category&category=37&go.x=13&go.y=12

DateBill TitleVoteOutcome

02/25/2008Prohibiting Funds in the Bill S 1200 from Being Used to Decrease Gun Ownership

S Amdt 4070 NV Amendment Adopted - Senate

(78 - 11)

07/13/2006Firearm Confiscation Prohibition Amendment

HR 5441 Y Amendment Adopted - Senate

(84 - 16)

07/29/2005Firearms Manufacturers Protection bill

S 397 Y Bill Passed - Senate

(65 - 31)07/28/2005Child Safety Lock Amendment

S 397 Y Amendment Adopted - Senate

(70 - 30)

03/02/2004Firearms Manufacturers Protection bill

S 1805 Y Bill Failed - Senate

(8 - 90)

05/20/1999Gun Show Sale Regulation Amendment

S 254 N Amendment Adopted - Senate

(51 - 50)

07/21/1998Gun Lock Requirement Amendment

S 2260 Y Amendment Tabling Motion Adopted . - Senate

(61 - 39)

[Guest db99wj]

You saw the NRA stats earlier.

http://www.votesmart.org/voting_category.php?can_id=9490&type=category&category=37&go.x=13&go.y=20

DateBill TitleVoteOutcome

02/25/2008Prohibiting Funds in the Bill S 1200 from Being Used to Decrease Gun Ownership

S Amdt 4070 NV Amendment Adopted - Senate

(78 - 11)

07/13/2006Firearm Confiscation Prohibition Amendment

HR 5441 Y Amendment Adopted - Senate

(84 - 16)

07/29/2005Firearms Manufacturers Protection bill

S 397 N Bill Passed - Senate

(65 - 31)

07/28/2005Child Safety Lock Amendment

S 397 Y Amendment Adopted - Senate

(70 - 30)

You can go to the votesmart website and use the pull down list to see how they have voted for various subjects.

[memphismason]

Thanks Tcampbell, those are very good facts!!!

here is some on McCain:

John McCain sponsored an amendment to S. 1805 on March 2, 2004 that would outlaw the private sale of firearms at gun shows.

John McCain also sponsored an Incumbent Protection provision to the so-called "Campaign Finance Reform" bill, which severely curtails the ability of outside groups (such as GOA or NRA) to communicate the actions of incumbent politicians to members and supporters prior to an election.

The GOA report of the 106th Congress reveals that out of 15 votes relating to the right to keep and bear arms, Senator John McCain voted favorably only 4 times. Put that into a percentage and McCain's pro-Second Amendment voting record is a pathetic 27%.

http://www.gunowners.org/mccaintb.htm

http://www.gunowners.org/mcv109.htm

http://www.gunowners.org/mcv108.htm

http://www.gunowners.org/mcv107.htm

http://www.gunowners.org/mcv106.htm

[memphismason]

McCain Still Trying To Gag Gun Owners From Criticizing His Anti-gun Record

Gun Owners of America

8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102

Springfield, VA 22151

(703)321-8585

Tuesday, February 28, 2006

A few weeks ago, we alerted you to legislation -- introduced by anti-gun Senator John McCain (R-AZ) -- which is aimed at squelching the First Amendment rights of grassroots groups like Gun Owners of America.

That bill, S. 2128, is ostensibly aimed at dealing with some of the congressional controversies that have hit the media in recent weeks. A true reform bill would focus the spotlight on members like John McCain, who was one of the original Keating Five senators who were deeply implicated in the savings and loan scandal.

Instead, McCain began his war on real transparency in 2002 when he teamed up with anti-gun Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) to push the Incumbent Protection Act into law -- an act that stifles the ability of organizations like GOA to criticize elected officials before an election.

Now with the Gag Act (S. 2128), McCain wants to target his wrath on groups like GOA -- requiring them to register their "grassroots" communications and to file twice as many frivolous reports.

If McCain succeeds in pushing an expansive interpretation of his bill (as he did when he convinced the courts to regulate the Internet under McCain-Feingold), then we could see a host of draconian restrictions affecting both GOA and you.

For example, if we wanted to alert you to gun ban that is moving in our nation's capital, we could first have to tell McCain (and all his other buddies in Congress) about what we're planning to do, who we're planning to alert (that is, grassroots folks like yourself), how much money we plan to spend, etc.

Because of Section 105 in this bill, everyone with whom GOA contracts to get the word out (advertisers, printers, etc.) could be required to tell Congress twenty days in advance about GOA's public information campaign.

In effect, we would end up alerting Sarah Brady every time we plan to wage a grassroots campaign in opposition to gun control.

This is ridiculous!

No doubt, the Gag Act is further proof that grassroots lobbying works. It works so well, that John McCain wants to muzzle it.

S. 2128 -- or a bill that is similar to it -- is now likely to come to the floor of the Senate in early March, according to Majority Leader Bill Frist. It is imperative that we contact our Senators today.

Senators who have cosponsored this bill are:

Conrad Burns (R-MT)

Norm Coleman (R-MN)

Jon Kyl (R-AZ)

Joseph Lieberman (D-CT)

Bill Nelson (D-FL)

Olympia Snowe (R-ME)

[memphismason]

http://gunowners.org/pres08/obama.htm

Barack Obama's Gun-Related Votes

The U.S. Senate Debated:

Obama

Voted:

Supporting concealed carry for citizens10

Anti-gun

Banning many common semi-automatic firearms11

Anti-gun

Disallowing self-defense in towns where guns are banned12

Anti-gun

Imposing one handgun a month restrictions13

Anti-gun

Requiring lock up your safety trigger locks14

Anti-gun

Protecting gun dealers from frivolous lawsuits15

Anti-gun

Outlawing gun confiscations during a national emergency16

Pro-gun

Squelching the free speech rights of gun owners17

Anti-gun

Restricting the interstate sales of firearms18

Anti-gun

Repealing the gun ban in Washington, DC19

Anti-gun