Lets settle this

[Guest pjblurton]

You could vote for Big Bird he usually garners almost a full 1% every election.

Big Bird / Bob Barr ---- Coincidence? I think not!

[fury2neon]

Bob Barr

www.bobbarr2008.com

+1

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Someone really needs to explain this amazing new system of mathematics & probability to me. Apparently, I somehow made it all the way through engineering school without a good grasp on it...

Grade school example:

Obama - 34 votes

McCain - 28 votes

3rd Party - 10 votes

Obama has 34 votes and thus set to win the election, against McCain's trailing 28 votes. While the 3rd party really hates Obama, they feel Barr is a much better candidate that McCain, so they cast their votes as such.

Now... did those 10 votes really help put him past Obama, since he was such a "great choice" as a candidate? No.

Could those 10 votes have helped McCain (a much stronger candidate) pass Obama? Yes.

---

Fact is, while Barr may be the best candidate available (not saying he is or isn't) the majority of the population are going to be voting for Obama or McCain... not a third party elective. While you may be voting for what you feel is the best person, he/she will not be an effective ballot. So you are only hurting or strengthening the other candidates.

[DavidD]

I am and always have been a Republican. I am a Christian, Southerner, believe whole heartedly in the Constitution, Love and am proud of the United States, and have for the most part agreed with the Republican agenda. That being said, I also feel it is time for a change. Of course common sense says that anyone who would be elected as the next President would bring about some change right? Well, one would hope. I do believe that one party should not have the power for too long of a time for no other reason than to keep a little balance. I was also hoping that the Dem.'s could come up with a better candidate than Kerry in the last election, but they didn't. I held my nose and voted for Bush. Am I proud of that? Hell no. But I believe with all of my heart that he is still better than Kerry would have been, but who knows for sure.

Now look what the Dem's have given us. Snowbama, the king of BS. All I know about him (minus the rhetoric) is that he believe America is broken and he must fix it, the terrorist attacked on 911 because they are the victims and we aren't empathetic enough, his mentor was Rev. Jeremiah Wright, he was against the troop surge in Iraq, believes my children should learn Spanish to communicate with the immigrants who do not want to learn English, wants to bring the troops home regardless of whether it is the best thing for both countries, does not want more drilling for oil or offer any solution/legislation/relief for us real Americans just because he thinks it's time for alternative fuels, does not understand why I want my guns and cling to my religion, believes he can somehow make my life better by taking away more of my money and independence to take care of me and the less fortunate, and that's about it. I have done quite a bit of research on him as well as the other democratic candidates and believed all along that he and Hillary were the most popular, but they would be the worst for the country. Sure enough, it came down to the two of them. I honestly believe it was solely because she was a woman and he his black (actually half black). What a crying shame when Americans cannot see past gender and race. I would have voted for a black man or a women, just not either one of them. The blacks (per Jessie Jackson) for the most part are going to vote for him JUST because he is black. This is absolute Racism, period. I see how oppressed the black community was and though I can never fully understand, try my best to empathize but will not stoop to voting for Obama as some sort of restitution. Same holds true about voting for McCain. I did not vote for McCain in the Primaries but will vote for him for President. Not because he is white. Not because he is Republican. Not because he is our only choice, but because of those we will have to chose from, he is so far the best choice. Oh don't get me wrong, I am aware there are other choices outside of the mainstream/two parties but unfortunately for America, they do not stand a chance, yet. I hope and pray that the majority of my fellow Americans will wake up in time to see it my way. If not, we will survive. We are, after all, Americans.

Now one could always hope after the Democratic and Republican conventions, both candidates would simultaneously self destruct and give Barr and some of the "others" a real shot. But let's face it, it aint happening this year.

[Guest pjblurton]

I did not vote for McCain in the Primaries but will vote for him for President. Not because he is white. Not because he is Republican. Not because he is our only choice, but because of those we will have to chose from, he is so far the best choice.

We'll said... My point exactly!

[memphismason]

Grade school example:

Obama - 34 votes

McCain - 28 votes

3rd Party - 10 votes

Obama has 34 votes and thus set to win the election, against McCain's trailing 28 votes. While the 3rd party really hates Obama, they feel Barr is a much better candidate that McCain, so they cast their votes as such.

Now... did those 10 votes really help put him past Obama, since he was such a "great choice" as a candidate? No.

Could those 10 votes have helped McCain (a much stronger candidate) pass Obama? Yes.

---

Fact is, while Barr may be the best candidate available (not saying he is or isn't) the majority of the population are going to be voting for Obama or McCain... not a third party elective. While you may be voting for what you feel is the best person, he/she will not be an effective ballot. So you are only hurting or strengthening the other candidates.

I really don't want to debate this, and I am sorry for even asking...but why isn't this a possiblity?

McCain - 34 votes

Obama - 28 votes

3rd Party - 10 votes

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I really don't want to debate this, and I am sorry for even asking...but why isn't this a possiblity?

McCain - 34 votes

Obama - 28 votes

3rd Party - 10 votes

It is a possibility. And hopefully the final outcome.

However, the question was raised as to why we keep saying the third party votes are "being tossed away" compared to what they could help overcome... and that people couldn't see the logic.

That's all I was saying.

[memphismason]

It is a possibility. And hopefully the final outcome.

However, the question was raised as to why we keep saying the third party votes are "being tossed away" compared to what they could help overcome... and that people couldn't see the logic.

That's all I was saying.

Cool. The "compared to what they could help overcome" was the part I was missing.

Thanks

[Magiccarpetrides]

I can appreciate an idealist...god bless you and the other Bob Barr supporters...God save the rest of us when Obama's wins the election.

[Guest pjblurton]

However, the question was raised as to why we keep saying the third party votes are "being tossed away" compared to what they could help overcome... and that people couldn't see the logic.

The point is this. Obama is going to carry a very large percentage of the "black" vote. Plain and simple. McCain will have to split the remaining votes with any third party candidate.

Yes, they may very well be the best person for the job. But they have a snowballs chance in Hades of winning the election.

The only purpose they serve is to draw upstanding, well intending white voters away from McCain.

There, I said it! I feel racist for having to say it. But I said it!

[Guest Verbal Kint]

There, I said it! I feel racist for having to say it. But I said it!

[memphismason]

I can appreciate an idealist...god bless you and the other Bob Barr supporters...God save the rest of us when Obama's wins the election.

I am a "Baldwin&Castle" guy myself.

http://www.baldwin08.com/

Maybe....I haven't fully decided on Baldwin, or doing a write in for Willie Herenton. I can see King Willie in the White House.

[Guest pjblurton]

...or doing a write in for Willie Herenton. I can see King Willie in the White House.

Don't even start that BS!

[bubbiesdad]

Debate is good if its kept civil. The only thing I know Obama wants is getting the troops out. I think he might have changed on that a little. The only other thing is "Change". Change what??

Everybody wants the troops home, it's just a matter of when.

Changes his stand on the issues.

[Guest superslacker]

I am a "Baldwin&Castle" guy myself.

http://www.baldwin08.com/

Maybe....I haven't fully decided on Baldwin, or doing a write in for Willie Herenton. I can see King Willie in the White House.

I'm all for it, anything to get him out of Memphis. Make the rest of the world suffer under his oppressive rule. Does the situation in Zimbabwe sound familiar?

[Guest db99wj]

Using the assumption that Obama is not a choice that we, the members of this group, want to be elected President, here are my thoughts.

There are many great 3rd party candidates and I wish they had more of a following. The chances of Obama getting elected are truely high. I am willing to swollow my pride and vote along the one of the two legitimate partys. This is not a slam against any of the other parties, but they are not well known, they are not widely heard from, watch the news and it is Obama land and McCain land. This is not, IMO, the time to stick your middle finger in the air towards the choice that is not Obama. The timing is not there for a 3rd party winner. I believe a vote for a 3rd party would send a message that we want our conservative values protected and properly representented and that you, the republican party, need to take note, BUT, at this level, the 3rd party is really not a contender at this time. We must start voting local/state 3rd party people in so that they have more presence in todays political system.

From rasmussenreports.com.

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Tuesday shows Barack Obama attracting 43% of the vote while John McCain earns 42%. When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 46% and McCain 46% (see recent daily results). McCain is viewed favorably by 57% of voters, Obama by 55%.

Oh, the 3rd party canidate was not mentioned, because Bob Barr is getting around 2% and Nadar is about 3%. That was in a poll I saw on http://www.presidentpolls2008.com/.

So I guess I can say that I am comfortable with voting for McCain and I will be able to sleep at night with that decision whereas if I voted for a 3rd party that, according to the polls, doesn't have a chance and Obama does in fact get elected POTUS, I won't have to say "what if".

Well, going to eat!

[Guest slothful1]

Grade school example:

Obama - 34 votes

McCain - 28 votes

3rd Party - 10 votes

Obama has 34 votes and thus set to win the election, against McCain's trailing 28 votes.

OK, but to answer my question (as to how a 3rd party vote can conceivably constitute a "vote for Obama") your scenario needs to be compared to this starting point:

Obama - 34 votes

McCain - 28 votes

3rd party - 9 votes

Then a voter chooses to vote 3rd party, resulting in the tally you provided.

That means that:

Obama's share of the vote drops from 47.9% to 47.3%

McCain's share of the vote drops from 39.4% to 38.9%

3rd party's share of the vote increases from 12.7% to 13.9%.

Obama still wins. McCain & the 3rd party candidate still lose. I will allow that the newest vote hurt McCain, in the sense that it lowered his percentage, but it also hurt Obama in the same way. It did not alter their respective totals. So how is it a "vote for Obama"?

[Guest pjblurton]

It did not alter their respective totals. So how is it a "vote for Obama"?

Because if he is on this board, then he is most likely a white, middle class gun lover. One who would NEVER vote for Obama, but MIGHT have voted for McCain.

McCain lost the vote here not Obama.

[Guest slothful1]

Because if he is on this board, then he is most likely a white, middle class gun lover. One who would NEVER vote for Obama, but MIGHT have voted for McCain.

McCain lost the vote here not Obama.

Sorry, but no one is automatically entitled to my vote before I even get a say in the matter. That's kind of what the idea of "voting" is about -- being able to choose.

If someone was originally going to vote for McCain but changes to third party, sure -- that hurts McCain and effectively helps Obama get elected. But speaking for myself, it is not true that I "might" ever have voted for McCain, so clearly my write-in or 3rd party vote will provide no help to Obama, regardless of my skin color, socioeconomic class, or ability to read the Constitution that both candidates hate.

Am I "throwing my vote away"? Yes, in the sense that it will not help result in a candidate acceptable to me being elected, but that would also be true if I voted for McCain or Obama. In other words, "throwing away my vote" is the only choice that's being provided on the ballot this year, barring something extremely unlikely (like McCain keeling over before the convention).

[Guest pjblurton]

I dont think that anyone here feels that they are entitled to your vote. In fact, I think people here are much more sensitive to the preservation of rights than anywhere else.

Also, Let me go on record as saying that ideologically, I agree with you 100%. McCain is not the best man for the job, but he is a damn site better than Obama.

One of these two numbnuts will win this election. I just feel that it is in our best interest to pick the lesser of two evils here. It's a numbers game, like it or not we have to play it.

I would not be able to live with the decision to vote third party on principal, only to have Obama win by a narrow margin. You may be able to, and that's great. Just for me, the risk outweighs the reward.

[Guest slothful1]

I would not be able to live with the decision to vote third party on principal, only to have Obama win by a narrow margin. You may be able to, and that's great. Just for me, the risk outweighs the reward.

Well, I already have to live with the fact that I voted for George W. Bush twice. It makes me sick when I think about it, and I'm not about to compound that error.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

And people wonder why nothing ever changes.............

[skipsfirearms]

I truly understand your sentiment.. but untill people start to demand that the other parties be truly recognized.. it will be hard.

When exactly will "People start to demand that other parties be truly recognized"?

As long as we the people sit around telling other free Americans that voting the way they decide to vote, and thereby exercising their freedom is "Wasting" a vote, the above statement will never happen. Change only comes in any are of life when it is asked for and then demanded. But how can the other parties EVER become main line when the only thing people have to say is that it would be a waste to vote for them?

Anyone remember Mr. Edison? Failing many times to make a light bulb and when asked about his failure he stated that he had not failed "X" amount of times to make a light bulb, he had actually proven "X" amount of ways you can't make a light bulb. We all know how that ended.

I despise Obama for what I think he stands for. I would not vote for him even if he was the only one running. But wouldn't that also be a "Waste" of my vote? (Though I will definately not vote for Obama!!!!)

It just doesn't sit right with me when I read posts where one person is telling another person basically they are "Stupid". And when you tell someone their vote will be wasted, that is essentially what you are saying. Although I understand on this board we all say what we feel and generally do not mean anything negative towards each other. We each have the right to vote however we feel is right, and hopefully anyone who does believe in God will use that resource to help them make a moral and right decision. But the basis of a board like this is "FREEDOM". And that includes the freedom to vote for whomever you like or even not vote at all if you choose. (Though if you don't vote you can't whine about it later).

I like this board because even though things sometimes get a little "Hairy" we all still get along and help each other. Discussion and sometimes argument is a healthy part of relationships and I enjoy the interaction on this board.

But for me, I don't believe anyone is going to waste a vote. Not voting the way you feel is right would be the mistake. I live in a free country, free for now, and I hope that everyone exercises their God given and fought for rights to vote. For anyone they choose. (Except Obama,,,,Just kidding)

"Anyone willing to give up freedom for security, doesn't deserve either" (Can't remember who said it.) And I will NOT GIVE UP MY FREEDOM for the sake of security or anyone else's opinion....

I'm done.

[skipsfirearms]

And people wonder why nothing ever changes.............

AMEN!

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm pretty sure it'll be a cold day in hell if a third party gets elected. You can whine and complain about Dems and Repubs are terrible and people need to wake up, but the simple fact of the matter is that they wont wake up or don't want to wake up. It's not going to happen.