Adding a SB to existing rifle (Form 1 or 4)

[Guest cnas122]

This may be a silly question, but the NFA rules just aren't clicking with me.

 

If I want to buy a new SB and add it to an existing AR, is that Form 1 or Form 4?  I know that adding a new SB and new upper to an existing rifle would be Form 1.  But what about the other scenario?  Wouldn't that just be a Form 4 (no different than adding a suppressor to an existing rifle)?  Are you really "making" a rifle?

 

My example...I have a line on a new Daniel Defense M4V7 for a great price with a 16 inch barrel.  I'd like to add a 12.5 inch and a suppressor.

 

thanks for helping the newby.....

[Romad7]

Sounds like a form 1 since you are in essence building an SBR and not transferring an already built one. This would be the same as if you chopped the barrel on your new rifle.

I think you probably know that the suppressor will be on a form 4 if you are buying it already built.

Also, if you don't mind, what are you getting that rifle for? I have a DDM4 also and just wondering what a good price is these days. Edited March 31, 2013 by Romad7

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

Form 1 is tax paid  "Maker form" ... use this when YOU make something ...SBR, SBS, Suppressor, etc..

 

Form 4 is a tax paid "Transfer" of an item already made.  This is when you get something transfered to you.

 

Both are $200 and BOTH need to be approved before you have the item in your possession... re, don't buy a barrel and then fill out a form 1 to SBR your rifle.  Form 1 it first, get approval and then you can add the barrel.

 

as mentioned, in your example above you would more than likely do a Form 1 yourself for the SBR, then purchase a suppressor that would transfer to you on a Form 4. Another alternative would be to buy an already made SBR and it would transfer in to you on a Form 4 just like the suppressor would.

 

I have a NFA page on my website that lists some of these forms and what they are used for.  Be happy to explain more if you drop me a call sometime.

Edited March 31, 2013 by LawEnforcementSalesTN

[Guest cnas122]

Thanks...I guess my confusion just comes from the fact that adding new SB to an existing upper/lower is similar to adding a silencer to an existing rifle, in which case I'd just do a Transfer with a Form 4.  But from your comments, I sounds like I need to do the Form 1 for the barrel.

 

I'm getting the rifle for around $1,500 (from a friend).  I see them going for upwards of $2k online.

[LawEnforcementSalesTN]

The registered "part" on your new SBR will be the receiver.  You can purchase a SBR but then you'd have to wait on the form 4 to clear before you had it.  You can form 1 it yourself.  If you go this route, you'll have to have your information (name & city) engraved on the receiver somewhere.

 

Sounds like the host right now is a 16" barrel.  Given this, the form 1 would allow you to hang onto the original weapon and enjoy it while the ATF processes your paperwork.

 

The only negative to the Form 1 is the receiver will then have YOUR name on it.  Many prefer a company/business name for better resale down the road but given the current conditions you shouldn't have too much trouble selling it either way if you ever chose to.

 

There's several places that will do the engraving for you.  If you can't find anyone local I'll be happy to help with that as well.

[Guest cnas122]

Thanks guys.  I appreciate your help.

[Capbyrd]

Thanks...I guess my confusion just comes from the fact that adding new SB to an existing upper/lower is similar to adding a silencer to an existing rifle, in which case I'd just do a Transfer with a Form 4.  But from your comments, I sounds like I need to do the Form 1 for the barrel.

 

I'm getting the rifle for around $1,500 (from a friend).  I see them going for upwards of $2k online.

 

 

I think part of the confusion in this case is the Form 1.  Maybe this will help.  The Form 1 is an application to make and register a firearm.  Since the gun you are buying is already a completed firearm, ignore the first part and just go with "register."  

The NFA is a registry of SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, machine guns and destructive devices.  You are filling out a Form 1 to add a new SBR to the registry.  

 

If an item is already in the registry, it will transfer on a Form 3 (tax exempt between dealers), Form 4 (tax paid transfer, generally to final owner) or a Form 5 (tax exempt transfer, generally an inheritance).  

 

Hope that helps a little bit. 

[Guest cnas122]

Ah....that last post is very helpful (as were all of these others).  Thanks much guys....

[Oh Shoot]

... need to be approved before you have the item in your possession... re, don't buy a barrel and then fill out a form 1 to SBR your rifle.  Form 1 it first, get approval and then you can add the barrel.

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.

 

IF you can find a new lower/LPK/receiver extension (or a completed lower), you could go ahead and get barrel and make a pistol first, though. And could be shooting it while you're waiting on the stamps.

 

Note: but you can't legally make a pistol from the receiver on the complete rifle you're getting, assuming it was first transferred or built as a rifle.

 

- OS

Edited April 3, 2013 by Oh Shoot