Practicing for Self Defense

[Guest benchpresspower]

Ok, after reading quite a few news stories on here I've come to the conclusion that just having a HCP and carrying is only half of the equation when it comes to self defense. What would you reccommend someone to do to practice for a deadly situation? Do you watch a video? Do you read a book/magazine? Do you go take a class? I'm sure all have their advantages and disadvantages but to the members of this board and taking a bit here and a bit there, what is everyone's advice and/or opinion on the best choice for self defense training with a handgun?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

All of the above. Be a sponge, never stop learning, and never get lazy.

Take as many classes as time and money will allow. Stay in good physical condition, and enroll in some form of martial arts or self defense class if that is an option. Always make time for range sessions with whatever gun you carry. Watch/read anything applicable on the subject.

[Guest Bronker]

+1 on what VK said.

[nightrunner]

i have a question on the subject. how does one practice for self-defense type shooting? assuming that formal classes are not an option.

[Guest HunterH]

You are already making a great step in the right direction by asking questions and looking for more information and training options. THat is better than the vast majority already.

A great book that is an easy read and a great compass for moving forward is call Armed Response by David Kenik ( it is only about $12 on amazon). "Sharpening the Warrior's Edge" is a good book on the tunnel vision and body alarm reaction that people encounter when faced with a life or death situation. It is used by police and others that are in harms way.

THere are some good classes around here too at CIS, PRI, and rattlesnake ridge just to name a few.

This forum is also a wonderful reasource that I hope you will avail yourself of.

I wish you the best of luck!

[Guest abailey362]

shooting sports like idpa will be a good way to practice and fun. puts you in different scenarios that you would be more likely to encounter in the real world than standing on a firing line and shooting a circle. It will also help speed up target aquisition and make you think definsively, by requiring use of cover.

[Marswolf]

I wish I had a good answer.

By all means take some basic classes if you can, like the NRA training in the home and outside the home classes. That should give you confidence in your abilities and some basics. I'm very skeptical of the advanced "operator" type classes. Take them for fun if you like but the hokum is pretty thick on some of the classes. But many of us here can recommend trainers for serious advance classes if that is what you want.

Of course military service is great. Nothing helps situational awareness like actually being somewhere people are actually trying to kill you. But if you don't have that experience, consider that you are in that situation in some parts of major cities.

Practice to make shots at close range, probably 5 to 12 feet, and try to get the mindset to protect yourself and those with you by actually pulling the trigger.

As VK says, keep learning. Talk to people who have been there. Pick their brain. Learn to ignore the pretenders (lots of those) who will tell you anything they imagine. Some of the best lessons I have had came about on a practice range, sometimes with experienced people I was training for another job. I taught them; they taught me. So try to find people to practice with who are better than you and have experience other than just shooting at paper. That's not hard. Just ask around at gun shops. Tell them you want to do some shooting with people who wouldn't mind helping you get better. You might meet some great new friends as well as learn something.

[Guest jackdog]

By all means go with what both vk and mars has said. Prior to my wife carrying I made her draw and fire her weapon hundreds of times. We started in the house using snap caps. I wanted her to get fast and safe prior to live ammo. I would at a whim tell now and she would draw fire (once again snap caps). we moved to live fire out side and then to moving targets as well. She has been taught to fire while moving side to side backwards, and finding cover. We both do regular drills 3 to 4 tmes a week. Luckily we live in the stix so we don't have to go to a range.

[SpacemanSpiff]

Advanced training is key. I had my HCP class in April and I'm taking an Advanced Handgun class this Saturday. People that take the HCP class and never fires a gun after that is, imho, totally careless and we'll probably read about them in the news. Just like Verbal said, "be a sponge". Knowledge is power. When I go to the range, I watch advanced shooters to see what they're doing and maybe even ask questions. I'm taking my advanced class at the same place where I had my HCP class. If I take another class after that, I will search out somewhere different. I believe that multiple "teachers" is better than the same person all the time.

[Im Neero]

I don't know what part of the state you are in, but Rangemaster's handgun courses are excellent.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Ok I'll jump in and give a few thoughts.

Lets look at what you are likely to be dealing with in a defensive situation.

The most important thing is to follow the "3 stupids" rule. DO NOT go stupid places. DO NOT hang out with stupid people . DO NOT do stupid things. If you have friends that do drugs or are involved in the drug trade get away from them. If you drink to excess or have friends that drink to excess (on a regular basis) get rid of them. If you go out to bars to pick up women and are not selective of whether they are married or not then stop. These things are the most likely things to land you in a position to meet a violent death. Don't like to hear this? Tough. That does not make it any less true.

So now that we have that out of the way......assuming we are not in a fight because of drugs , booze or whores, what are we likely to have to deal with? Probably common street criminals who are looking to get some cash...likely to get drugs , booze or whores.

The bad guys do not want to give you much prior warning or to "conduct business" out in the open for all to see. They will want to get close to you so that everyone on the street can't see exactly what is going on. So 1st and foremost, you have to maintain and dominate your own personal space when dealing with people you do not know who approach you.

Most bad guys are opportunists. Crime does not have a good dental or medical plan so they are GENERALLY going to look at everything as a risk vs reward exercise. Can I take this guy without getting hurt? Does he have something WORTH me maybe getting hurt? Generally speaking the mugger on the street is looking for some quick cash and to get away . But that is not to say that he will not resort to preemptive violence to secure those ends. Again, it is crucial to be aware of your surroundings and pick up on things that look out of place or people that look like they are nervous or paying an inordinate amount of attention to you. Most people say the same thing after an assault. "I never saw it coming". " All of a sudden I looked up and there they were, they came out of nowhere". Well, here is a clue. They didn't just beam down off the starship Enterprise they walked right up to you while you were fiddling with your cell phone or playing with your keys or staring off into space. PAY ATTENTION!

Now, if you ARE approached in a threatening manner what do we do. If at all possible keep your feet moving. It is hard to grab , push,punch, stab or shoot you if you don't stand still waiting for it. It also makes you harder to box in to an area you cannot get out of. Your feet will save you more than your gun will. As we are moving we need to be looking for other people who might be with the unknown individual who is approaching us. You may not know it or see them, but more times than not there is a lookout or an accomplice close by.

Now I'm gonna skip ahead, because I'm not going to give away the whole farm in one post. Lets say we do decide that we are in fact in reasonable fear of grave bodily injury or death. What are some skill sets that we are going to wish we were good at here? Well for starters being able to draw our gun from concealment. If you cannot get it out, it is really irrelevant whether you have it or not. So in our spare time we might devote some time to drawing from concealment.

The next thing might be getting hits on the target. What kind of target and how far. GENERALLY the typical civillian involved shooting will be INSIDE 5 yards. No one hauls out a bullhorn and hails you from across the parking lot. "Excuse me Sir, yes you over there. Stop I'm coming over there to rob you". Does not happen. Again, they get as close as they can . After all, unless they are just there to assassinate you they want something like your wallet or keys. They have to get close enough to you to take them so it is gonna be close. So being able to draw and make hits at 2 to 5 yards. I would spend 70 percent of this time working on shooting 1 handed. It is great to be able to get both hands on the gun, but in a reactive initiative deficient situation like this you will likely shoot one handed. Do not worry about which stance is best, you will not be standing still anyways.

So now that we have our smoke wagon out and running what else might we need to know how to do? Clear malfunctions. If the pistol is a polymer framed gun and you get a less than robust grip on it it may malfunction. Nothing against plastic guns, that is what I carry, but I am honest about it and realize the possible problems.

I also realize that things might be so close I have to fire from a retention position and if I screw that up my pistol may not be able to fully cycle because the slide hits me while it is recoiling and this can cause the gun to malfunction. So we need to know how to do a "tap rack" malfunction clearance since that fixes 75% of the malfunctions we are likely to experience. Last , if we shoot any at all what is the gun now? not full. So we will probably want to get the gun back to full capacity ...ESPECIALLY if we carry a single stack gun.

Forget all the CRAP you hear about 1 shot stops.

A. They are rare with a pistol , ANY pistol. and

B. When you are in fear of your life you will likely shoot more than once anyways.

So if you fire 4 or 5 shots (which is REASONABLE) your 7 shot pistol now has very few bullets left on board. Remember the accomplice? If you now have to engage him you are gonna be close to empty.

So how long does the typical fight last? Three to five seconds. Not a lot of time to screw around once the fight is on. So we need to QUICKLY get our gun out from concealment, get hits on the target, scan to make sure that he was the only one, and get our pistol loaded again. And obviously clear any malfunctions that the pistol might have. FORTUNATELY for us the pistols being built today (by and large) are the most reliable ever built. So it is not COMMON to have a malfunction, but you still need to know how to clear 'em just in case.

So what are some drills to work the skills? Here is one care of my friend and mentor Tom Givens. Target is an IDPA target at 5 yards. Pistol loaded with 6 live rounds and a dummy round. The dummy cannot be the first or last round in the mag. A spare mag on you with 3 more rounds. Use a shot timer to get the time.

At the buzzer, sidestep as you draw your pistol and fire at the target until the gun goes "click". Immediately perform a "Tap / Rack" to clear the malfunction and fire what is left in the mag. Immediately sidestep and reload and fire 3 more shots. Par time is 15 seconds.

The sidestep is to get you off the spot where the bad guy will be shooting punching or stabbing at. Some people will argue that it is better stand there and get hit and hit him too than to get out of the way. Those people are idiots. Some people here have argued that this drill is too intense for all but master level shooters. Those people need to get a grip. The bad guy is not going to give you any advantage. The better your skills are the better your chances. Life ain't fair.

In fact this drill has been modified from its original more difficult version by dropping the target distance down to 5 yards. The "real" drill is at 7 yards and only hits in the 8" circle in the chest count. Pass or fail. And if you think about it, 15 seconds is a LONG time to get this done in. I normally do it in 6-7 seconds. The point is you have a par time (15) to work toward. It does not mean if you can't do it in 15 you are gonna die. It is not a replica of a gunfight. It is a DRILL that works the basic skills that are the most likely skills needed in a close range gunfight.If you can do it in 15 work toward 12. If you can do it in 12 work for 10. The idea is to get better.

Now, some other thoughts. Pick a reliable gun, load it with high quality ammo and FORGET ABOUT WHAT AMMO WORKS 1% BETTER THAN WHAT OTHER AMMO. Half the Brazillian rain forest has been destroyed by fools arguing which bullet or caliber or gun is best in gun magazines. Do some research, shoot as many different ones as you can, make an educated decision and then FORGET ABOUT IT. The gun is JUST A TOOL. YOU ARE THE WEAPON. It is an accessory.

More important than any gun ammo combo is the combo of awareness and avoidance. If you pay attention to what is going on and are able to make good decisions then you will likely never have to use a gun anyway.

Oh yeah, and seek competent professional training. There are several folks here who offer it.

Edited July 23, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[Guest goomba]

what everybody above has said...

and whenever you carry, stay on high alert, never let your guard down, and above all else, use your brain... if you think there might be a problem & can avoid, by all means do it...

[gunsablazin]

Thanks Randy,

I've got to get to one your classes soon.

[Guest janwbrown616]

When asked how he survived all those shootings his classic response was "Ya Just Gotta Get Mad Dog Mean"

While it's not the complete answer it gives us a hint of "MINDSET". IMO, mindset is the FIRST thing you have GOT to acquire.

Then you watch, read, and PRACTICE. Short range, weak hand, strong hand. You don't have to be a fast draw, just an accurate shot. You have to be comfortable with your weapon.

I like to play "What IF" when I"m out... What would I do here?, or what if this happened?

But, I think you have to have the right frame of mind. You gotta know that at the end of the day YOU are the one going home.

One day I was flying to someplace and the plane was really crowded. I was thinking to myself. "You know, if this plane crashes, I gotta climb over all these dead bodies to get outta here!" I laughted when I caught myself thinking this. But, again, it's a state of mind. You gotta want to survive.

But, practice, practice, practice, either in a class, with other shooters or just by yourself...

[Schadenfreude]

I love the 3 stupids rule can you tell me where you got that one.

Also if someone plans to "spend 70% of this time working on shooting 1 handed" they might want to know proper draw stroke to make sure their off hand is always out of the way of the muzzle, just throwing this in as something to be aware of for those that might not know it.

[Cruel Hand Luke]

I love the 3 stupids rule can you tell me where you got that one.

Also if someone plans to "spend 70% of this time working on shooting 1 handed" they might want to know proper draw stroke to make sure their off hand is always out of the way of the muzzle, just throwing this in as something to be aware of for those that might not know it.

As far as I know John Farnam usually gets the credit for the "3 stupids rule". I do not know if he coined the phrase but it seems like everyone in the circles I move in uses it.I think I actually first heard it from Gabe Suarez, but Tom Givens uses it, and Skip Gochenauer referred to it when I was at NTI.

And yeah, there is A LOT I did not include in the post as far as specific techniques and etc goes. Like I said, I'm not giving away the whole farm in one post. Come take the class. But anyone who is a competent professional instructor should be able to teach the original poster a proper draw stroke...hopefully.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Cruel Hand Luke

[robbiev]

The most important thing is to follow the "3 stupids" rule. DO NOT go stupid places. DO NOT hang out with stupid people . DO NOT do stupid things.

I'm so screwed.

In relation to practice, I'd add, and others have already said it, if you can't take a class for some reason, practice skills that actually relate to self defense, such as drawing from concealment, multiple targets, shooting while moving, etc. There are lists of drills to practice all over the internt (including my web page).

Many people stand in a static range and shoot slowly at one target at 15 or 20 yards and never do anything else.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

This is some very good advices from all the posters

[DaveTN]

More important than any gun ammo combo is the combo of awareness and avoidance. If you pay attention to what is going on and are able to make good decisions then you will likely never have to use a gun anyway.

This is key. It is how I have been trained and I don’t think nearly enough time is spent on it.

[Marswolf]

I'm so screwed.

Been there; done that. I've never been one for avoiding places that might be trouble. But it is, of course, a good idea. I once walked into a bar in Raleigh just after a shooting. I stepped over the wounded guy and ordered a beer at the bar. And I have a few foreign stories too - many involving alcohol.

Then again I planned to lead an interesting life and die by age 35. I tried my damnedest. I'd hate to have memories of a safe but boring life. Now I'm at an age where most of the men in my family have died of a heart attack or were a couple of years older than I am now when they went. Living on borrowed time is a hobby of mine, I guess. I'm like the Energizer Bunny. I just keep going and going.

But one thing that helps you to get this way is by being prepared. Guns help a lot in that category.

[Guest canynracer]

IDPA, take classes, be aware, avoidance, anything worth shooting once is worth shooting twice...have a plan everywhere you go.

classes will help set the mindset, if you are in memphis, check out RangeUSA, they have awesome classes.

bottom line, if money will allow, take the classes, if not, go to shooting sports like IDPA, and study up on situational awareness. know your surroundings at all times

[Luckyforward]

So many great comments above . . . great wisdom. One small addition:

THINK THINK THINK THINK THINK and then THINK SOME MORE - carrying a firearm does not negate thinking about where we are and what is going on around us. Going for the gun should be the LAST option, and not the first. I have an acquaintence who states, "I just go and do what I want without thinking about it because I have a gun." WRONG! When I am walking in a parking lot of a business at dusk, I am not "turning my brain off" because I am carrying. I am vigilent, watchful, and am prepared for evasive action that may - or may not - include drawing my weapon.

[TGO David]

Random musings on the subject...

Cruel Hand Luke posted superb advice. Read it. Re-read it. Print out out, take it to the toilet and read it some more while you're on the can. He posted advice for free that a lot of trainers charge to teach you.

The defensive drill he outlined is one that I try to practice pretty much every time I'm at a range that allows movement and firing from a draw. It's a very basic but very critical drill that we should all burn into our brains and into muscle memory, time and time again.

Buy some dummy rounds. Take a buddy to the range. Take turns loading each other's mags while inserting a few dummy rounds into each as surprises. Work on clearing malfunctions! Get to the point where it doesn't mind**** you when the gun goes *click* instead of going *BANG!*. You want failure drills to become as autonomous as any other part of your shooting.

Regarding IDPA / USPSA or other forms of gaming: Don't fool yourself into thinking this is good training. It's not. It is better than what 90% of handgun owners do (i.e. putting rounds into a stationary target from a stationary shooting position from a fixed sitance) but it doesn't cultivate good defensive skills. The scenarios most gaming events pitch are utterly silly. Furthermore some of the safety centric rules of gun handling and some of the "gaming tactics" for maximizing use of rounds in each magazine do not apply to winning a fight for your life. At a real defensive handgun class, you will do things that would make a USPSA Range Officer scream like a girl.

That said, I enjoy gaming. It's fun and it gives you a chance to do some interesting stuff with your firearm. But it also teaches bad habits. Since the vast majority of what you will do in a defensive situation is going to be reflexive and autonomous, I refuse to devote any more of my time shooting to burning bad habits into my subconscious memory.

If IDPA or USPSA is the best you can do for training, I would recommend not going to compete or worrying about score, but rather playing the game "your way" with necessary concessions made to keep the safety officers happy, and maximize the opportunity as a way to practice shooting on the move. Forget times, forget splits, forget score. In a fight, the only score that matters is who is left standing.

Hope this helps some.

[TGO David]

I have an acquaintence who states, "I just go and do what I want without thinking about it because I have a gun." WRONG! When I am walking in a parking lot of a business at dusk, I am not "turning my brain off" because I am carrying. I am vigilent, watchful, and am prepared for evasive action that may - or may not - include drawing my weapon.

If anything, we must think even more when we are carrying a firearm. Your friend needs to realize that when he straps on his firearm, any fight that he gets into immediately becomes a "gun fight" by default. He may never draw, but the gun is still there and he may have to fight to retain the weapon during a scuffle.

People like your friend worry me. We should practice avoidance as much as we practice drawing and firing.

[Luckyforward]

If anything, we must think even more when we are carrying a firearm. Your friend needs to realize that when he straps on his firearm, any fight that he gets into immediately becomes a "gun fight" by default. He may never draw, but the gun is still there and he may have to fight to retain the weapon during a scuffle.

People like your friend worry me. We should practice avoidance as much as we practice drawing and firing.

I totally agree!

That is why I listed this person as an "acquaintence" and not as a friend.

When I am with persons - or friends - who carry, we must be mutually thoughtful because if I do something stupid with my gun, I automatically draw him or her into it, as well.

And vice versa . . .

Edited July 24, 2008 by Luckyforward
left out word