Have ammo manufacturers raised their prices?

[DaveTN]

I’m curious if anyone knows for sure if manufacturers like ATK, Federal, or Winchester have raised their prices, or are they just letting distributors and retailers put any price they want on ammo?

 

The oil companies found out during Katrina they could double gas prices and we would pay it. That’s why the prices are where they are. I wonder if the same thing will happen with ammo.

 

If it’s the manufacturers we are hosed. If its distributors and retailers it will eventually return to normal.

[Raoul]

According to David in one of his posts there has been an increase

[TripleDigitRide]

I was wondering the same thing. Beginning about a month or so ago, I somehow ended up in Guns & Leather at least once a week. :shrug: The first time, they had 100 rounds of CCI .22LR for $8.00. A few days or a week later (grand reopening of Greenbrier), it was marked up higher, and the next week even higher. I haven't seen any since. I was wondering where along the line the price was increasing. Edited March 29, 2013 by TripleDigitRide

[Troutburger]

I know 100% for sure fiocchi has raised their wholesale prices to distributors.

Have the letter saved on my desk top.

[Troutburger]

I also have a letter from atk.

IN Summary

Promotional Rifle 15%
Promotional Rimfire 10%
Promotional Shot shell 5%
Promotional Handgun 5%
All other Ammunition and Components 3%

[RED333]

The supply and demand thing is working, we are the bottom of the pile.

[Garufa]

Even in normal times manufacturers raise their prices every year.

[Troutburger]

Just got another one.
First of all we would like to thank you for your continued business during this busy time in our industry.

As many of you are aware, the recent demand in ammunition has left supply at a huge deficit. Ammunition companies continue to increase production to meet demand however we are uniformly starting to receive information about cost increases that will impact existing and future purchase orders in place with the manufacturers.

The letter we received this week from Federal is on our website for you to read. In short, they are forced into a price increase and are not able to honor any backorders at “old” pricing. Obviously, this will force us to raise prices on current backorders for customers in our system as well as new orders. You currently have the following on backorder:

FEDAE9AP $11.56 $12.51
CCI31 $5.67 $5.97



This represents all of your backorders for Federal products which will need to be updated. Please contact our office as soon as possible either by phone or email to confirm the new pricing. Orders not confirmed by 4/5/13 will be cancelled in our system.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. Please let us know if you require additional information or if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you

[dlm37015]

yes but i did score 5 millon primers today

[TripleDigitRide]

Just got another one.
First of all we would like to thank you for your continued business during this busy time in our industry.

As many of you are aware, the recent demand in ammunition has left supply at a huge deficit. Ammunition companies continue to increase production to meet demand however we are uniformly starting to receive information about cost increases that will impact existing and future purchase orders in place with the manufacturers.

The letter we received this week from Federal is on our website for you to read. In short, they are forced into a price increase and are not able to honor any backorders at “old” pricing. Obviously, this will force us to raise prices on current backorders for customers in our system as well as new orders. You currently have the following on backorder:

FEDAE9AP $11.56 $12.51
CCI31 $5.67 $5.97



This represents all of your backorders for Federal products which will need to be updated. Please contact our office as soon as possible either by phone or email to confirm the new pricing. Orders not confirmed by 4/5/13 will be cancelled in our system.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience. Please let us know if you require additional information or if we can be of further assistance.

Thank you

Those tiny price increase don't justify some of the retail prices were are seeing.

[Randall53]

Ii think this subject goes beyond supply and demand. Last time this happened, everything went up. 22 LR went from about $8 or $9 for a brick of 550 to $17 a brick. Now we are lucky to see a 525 brick going for less than $30. Same for the other calibers. There will be an increase. How much remains to be seen.

[dlm37015]

Those tiny price increase don't justify some of the retail prices were are seeing.

the problem is eveybody wants more .the mfg raises prices the wholesaler does the samew then the freight company wants more from the mfg to the wholesaler.then the freight company from the wholesale house to the dealed wants more .on top of that the cost of fuel is upso the fuel surcharge is up .its a never ending cycle if you dont make profit then you cant stay in buisness

[Troutburger]

It may seem that a $1.00 increase from the factory is in significant, but like David has explained; opportunity costs in business increase exponentially.

Fiocchi for example raised 9mm by $3 a box. Then the distributor adds a lick, plus the banker, the shipper, and the distributor....boom 9mm just went from $14.99 to $30 a box...

[runco]

Folks, I am sorry, I just don't totally buy into the sad story of the ammo wholesale and manufacturing side raising prices.  For small gun/ammo shops that are not tied to contractual purchases from their supply base, yes likely their prices may have gone up due to opportunists in the supply chain, not due to real cost increases being passed on.  Between the manufacturer and wholesale level, I have serious doubt if any price increases have occurred because there are contracts that protect themselves against such increases.  Example, Wal-Mart ammo pricing has not had any price increase (at least my local Wally hasn't).  This means either Wal-Mart is eating the price increase, or that Wal-Mart has contract pricing between itself and the manufacturers.  So do you think Walmart is eating those price increases?  Wholesalers like Walmart do the same, they have long term contract pricing between them and the manufacturers.   If small retailers do not have long term contracts between themselves and the wholesaler or the actual manufacturer, that is their fault.  So they may very well be experiencing price increases, but I don't have to shop there.   

 

I said this on another posting, if I were the retailer, an employee, boss, manager, or owner of one, I would definitely spin my defensive posture or price increase justification on my supply chain, i.e. wholesaler or manufacturer.  I certainly would want to deflect the consumers anger to someone else, and not on my business.   Remember the fox in the hen house story, in this case, we the ammo/gun people are the hens, and the retailers are the fox.  Who you going to believe?  The fox :rofl:.  Don't believe me, just use the Walmart litmus test or other large chain retailer test, when you see their ammo pricing go up, then yes there is real price increase.  Otherwise call bull or shop somewhere else. 

Edited March 30, 2013 by Runco

[mikegideon]

yes but i did score 5 millon primers today

 

I little birdie told me you were running a little low. Sound like you fixed that for now :)

[dlm37015]

Folks, I am sorry, I just don't totally buy into the sad story of the ammo wholesale and manufacturing side raising prices.  For small gun/ammo shops that are not tied to contractual purchases from their supply base, yes likely their prices may have gone up due to opportunists in the supply chain, not due to real cost increases being passed on.  Between the manufacturer and wholesale level, I have serious doubt if any price increases have occurred because there are contracts that protect themselves against such increases.  Example, Wal-Mart ammo pricing has not had any price increase (at least my local Wally hasn't).  This means either Wal-Mart is eating the price increase, or that Wal-Mart has contract pricing between itself and the manufacturers.  So do you think Walmart is eating those price increases?  Wholesalers like Walmart do the same, they have long term contract pricing between them and the manufacturers.   If small retailers do not have long term contracts between themselves and the wholesaler or the actual manufacturer, that is their fault.  So they may very well be experiencing price increases, but I don't have to shop there.   

 

I said this on another posting, if I were the retailer, an employee, boss, manager, or owner of one, I would definitely spin my defensive posture or price increase justification on my supply chain, i.e. wholesaler or manufacturer.  I certainly would want to deflect the consumers anger to someone else, and not on my business.   Remember the fox in the hen house story, in this case, we the ammo/gun people are the hens, and the retailers are the fox.  Who you going to believe?  The fox :rofl:.  Don't believe me, just use the Walmart litmus test or other large chain retailer test, when you see their ammo pricing go up, then yes there is real price increase.  Otherwise call bull or shop somewhere else. 

i am  sure you know a lot more about buisness than me but the gun and related buisness is a little strange

have you ever done any buisness with wal mart they are very hard to deal with ask some of the people they have put out of buisness

what dio you call a small operation in dollars of sales

most of the ammo and related industries have price hikes in jan-feb every year

like i have said spend a week with me and you will see what i mean

[dlm37015]

I little birdie told me you were running a little low. Sound like you fixed that for now :)

i was out but i now have lot of cci primers although the trip i made to ms put a dent in theem

the trip to tulda will take a lot kore of them

getting 6700 pounds of hodgdon winchester and imr powder in monday morning

[Troutburger]

Here's a couple links concerning ammo increase letters.

 

https://www.gunaccessorysupply.com/media/wysiwyg/ATK-Ammo-Price-Increase.pdf

 

https://www.gunaccessorysupply.com/media/wysiwyg/Fiocchi-Ammo-Price-Increase.pdf

[runco]

i am  sure you know a lot more about buisness than me but the gun and related buisness is a little strange

have you ever done any buisness with wal mart they are very hard to deal with ask some of the people they have put out of buisness

what dio you call a small operation in dollars of sales

most of the ammo and related industries have price hikes in jan-feb every year

like i have said spend a week with me and you will see what i mean

I assume your reference to Walmart is how they treat their suppliers.  I would assume they high demands and negotiate fiercely.  I also assume they have no concern if their suppliers make any money or not.  This business model is what I like.  It drives the supply chain to continuously improve and reduce cost in order for those businesses to make money.  This is how all businesses should work.  Your purchasing group should be ruthless in negotiations, and always negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.  I don't care what industry you are in, you can always negotiate and leverage your supply base to reduce cost.  I have been amazed at small businesses (less than 25 employees) that doesn't even try to negotiate, they are happy with their supply base, and they just accept that price increase letter, they don't leverage anything.  Businesses get lazy, they just pass the buck to the next customer.  Assuming the customer will pay it, then everyone is happy, happy, happy.   

 

David, I hope you know, I am not picking on you at all.  I recognize you have a unique business model, with its own unique challenges and rewards.  Just curious, other than your inventory, and your transportation equipment, do you have any major assets like a brick and mortar store would?   I am mostly picking on those guys.  Its been 20 years since I owned and operated my gun shop.  What I learned there was a lot more than I ever learned in college, and it has and still helps me in my professional purchasing career even today.

[runco]

Here's a couple links concerning ammo increase letters.

 

https://www.gunaccessorysupply.com/media/wysiwyg/ATK-Ammo-Price-Increase.pdf

 

https://www.gunaccessorysupply.com/media/wysiwyg/Fiocchi-Ammo-Price-Increase.pdf

Letters and links are one thing, what did your business do to push back?  Show us the actual invoices paid vs. the same item 3 mos ago?  Is your business engaged in rebates based upon certain quantity sold?  Did you market study the items with other distributors?  Did you consider joining a purchasing consortium in order to leverage your supply chain?  I assume your supply contract is written to prevent such increases?  You do have a supply contract, right?  I hope your business is not just rolling over without a fight and passing on the increase to its customers. 

[dlm37015]

look at all the buisness wal mart put out of buisness

because they demanded a lower price

most companys have more compasion for their workers

even wal mart is getting the atk price increases

sure they have more buying power than me

the ammo / reloading buisness is a little strange

the buying group i belong to buys about 2 billon a year at least thats what they tell me

one of the reasons that ammo and reloading stuff is so hard to get is

it has been moved off shore ther are only 2 powder plants in this country now

just like midway they no longer take backorders and deleted all of the ones they had

[dlm37015]

I assume your reference to Walmart is how they treat their suppliers.  I would assume they high demands and negotiate fiercely.  I also assume they have no concern if their suppliers make any money or not.  This business model is what I like.  It drives the supply chain to continuously improve and reduce cost in order for those businesses to make money.  This is how all businesses should work.  Your purchasing group should be ruthless in negotiations, and always negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.  I don't care what industry you are in, you can always negotiate and leverage your supply base to reduce cost.  I have been amazed at small businesses (less than 25 employees) that doesn't even try to negotiate, they are happy with their supply base, and they just accept that price increase letter, they don't leverage anything.  Businesses get lazy, they just pass the buck to the next customer.  Assuming the customer will pay it, then everyone is happy, happy, happy.   

 

David, I hope you know, I am not picking on you at all.  I recognize you have a unique business model, with its own unique challenges and rewards.  Just curious, other than your inventory, and your transportation equipment, do you have any major assets like a brick and mortar store would?   I am mostly picking on those guys.  Its been 20 years since I owned and operated my gun shop.  What I learned there was a lot more than I ever learned in college, and it has and still helps me in my professional purchasing career even today.

no i dont have a brick and mortar  store. i do have a haz mat warehouse and a powder storage whse. i also have to have a trucking co with a dot number and all drivers have to be haz maz endorsed .i dont want a store the whse is enough i have 4 trucks and trailers that i replace every 2 years my whse is 10,000 square feet  and my powder magazine is 16x48 and i get visited by osha,tosha and dot in a regular basis my gun store was easy but i didnt make much money.i guesss the most important thing i make a little money and after next week i will get to work with my daughter every day as i am going yo yurn it over to her next year or so

[TripleDigitRide]

I assume your reference to Walmart is how they treat their suppliers.  I would assume they high demands and negotiate fiercely.  I also assume they have no concern if their suppliers make any money or not.  This business model is what I like.  It drives the supply chain to continuously improve and reduce cost in order for those businesses to make money.  This is how all businesses should work.  Your purchasing group should be ruthless in negotiations, and always negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.  I don't care what industry you are in, you can always negotiate and leverage your supply base to reduce cost.  I have been amazed at small businesses (less than 25 employees) that doesn't even try to negotiate, they are happy with their supply base, and they just accept that price increase letter, they don't leverage anything.  Businesses get lazy, they just pass the buck to the next customer.  Assuming the customer will pay it, then everyone is happy, happy, happy.   
 
David, I hope you know, I am not picking on you at all.  I recognize you have a unique business model, with its own unique challenges and rewards.  Just curious, other than your inventory, and your transportation equipment, do you have any major assets like a brick and mortar store would?   I am mostly picking on those guys.  Its been 20 years since I owned and operated my gun shop.  What I learned there was a lot more than I ever learned in college, and it has and still helps me in my professional purchasing career even today.
no i dont have a brick and mortar  store. i do have a haz mat warehouse and a powder storage whse. i also have to have a trucking co with a dot number and all drivers have to be haz maz endorsed .i dont want a store the whse is enough i have 4 trucks and trailers that i replace every 2 years my whse is 10,000 square feet  and my powder magazine is 16x48 and i get visited by osha,tosha and dot in a regular basis my gun store was easy but i didnt make much money.i guesss the most important thing i make a little money and after next week i will get to work with my daughter every day as i am going yo yurn it over to her next year or so

If you ever need another driver Friday through Sunday, I'll be more than glad to help out. I have a HAZMAT endorsement and current DOT medical card.