AR 15 Home defense

[RichardR]

The pattern on 00 Buck is nothing until you reach out

Well keep in mind that a target being shot with a single shell of 00 (9 pellets, .33 cal each) is sort of the same as if it were being "instantanously" lit up by three, 3 round bursts out of a full auto Skorpian vz61 submachine gun, only without the stringing or time inbetween bursts.

That is what makes 00 buck so increadibly effective for CQB, it is not the imagined "impossible to miss" wide shot pattern.

So essentially a 12g tactical pump with an 8+1 magazine tube loaded with 00 buck means that you're capable of sending 81 (eighty-one!) .33 cal projectiles down-range before having to reload.

I don't see any downside there.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

And how many have a 9 round 12 gauge shotgun? J/k, but I was comparing like Hickok45 did.

What it boils down to is what you have and how well you can use it. Neither one is any better than

the other except the number of rounds you have to work with. I like my Ithaca's, too, even in their

limited round capacity. No way in Hell am I going for my son's Saiga 12. It has a 20 round drum

always on it, but the thing is too heavy for me. He gets to tote it around.:D

[Static_USMC]

I have to use a rifle....how else am I going to set off the 1/2 case of tannerite at the end of the hall?

 

 

 

Disclaimer :For those that take themselves to seriously....I am joking.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Static_USMC

[RichardR]

Well there is no doubt that Biden is an idiot & no-one should ever take him seriously on any issue, let alone really important ones.

I do really like 00 Buck though, IMHO it's about as nasty as nasty gets w/out having to get a tax stamp.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I do, too. Just bought a bunch of the nasty stuff.

[Guest MilitiaMan]

I don't use a pistol and AR or a shotgun to clear my house. Why would I with my wife so close?

 

If I hear a noise in the house I just grab her and hold her in front of me. Then we walk room ro room.

 

 

You don't think this method works to deter intruders? Well my friends, you haven't seen my wife in the early am.

 

 

:)  Kidding. Or am I?

[trevorst]

I don't use a pistol and AR or a shotgun to clear my house. Why would I with my wife so close?

 

If I hear a noise in the house I just grab her and hold her in front of me. Then we walk room ro room.

 

 

You don't think this method works to deter intruders? Well my friends, you haven't seen my wife in the early am.

 

 

:)  Kidding. Or am I?

I am almost afraid to like this post lol.

[Guest Phizzle99GST]

what you use depends a lot on how proficient you are with a particular HD weapon, type of round you're going to use and where in the house others may be such as you wife, kids, guests, pets, or even neighbors if you live in an apartment.

Personally, I feel very confident using a pistol, shotgun and an AR in a case of HD. Depending on the situation, where I am in the house at the time of an intrusion and how much time I have will determine which one I go to first.

 

[Rowdy]

I don't use a pistol and AR or a shotgun to clear my house. Why would I with my wife so close?
 
If I hear a noise in the house I just grab her and hold her in front of me. Then we walk room ro room.
 
 
You don't think this method works to deter intruders? Well my friends, you haven't seen my wife in the early am.
 
 
:)  Kidding. Or am I?

If you'd like some time to reconsider this ^ we'll pause and give you some time for reflection. And if you don't, watch your back; most women have long memories!

[Guest MilitiaMan]

Married 13 years. Plenty of time ;)  My wife saw me post it. Her sense of humor is as twisted as mine. It's one of the many reason we gel so well. :)

If you'd like some time to reconsider this ^ we'll pause and give you some time for reflection. And if you don't, watch your back; most women have long memories!

[RobertNashville]

In case anyone is still questioning the reasonableness of using a AR/.223 weapon for home defense, you might find this article interesting.

 

Of course the overriding rule is that my primary HD weapon is the one closest to me.  That said, during the day, my HD weapon is likely going to be my nearest pistol (which I keep one somewhat "hidden" in each room) but my primary HD weapon, at least at night when I retire for the nigh, is a 5.56 chambered rifle backed up by a 12ga pump and then one of my Glocks.  For a variety of reasons I believe an AR in 5.56 is the best choice for HD in terms of surviving (which is of course our first goal) but to each his own.
 

 

I will add one more thought which is that I've learned recently (thanks to Chip Cain of Cain Law Firm) that using an AR in HD can have negative consequences in the minds of a jury should you ever be unfortunate enough to wind up in front of one for defending your life). Now, that's not enough to keep me from using my rifle (because if I don't survive the encounter then worrying about a jury doesn't really come into play) but it is something to think about.

 

 

From the article: "Looking at the AR platform itself, I think it has several selling points that make it a better choice for home defense than a pistol or shotgun, at least in most circumstances. First, while it may not be as maneuverable indoors as a pistol, the length of the rifle will make it point much more naturally, increasing the chances of hitting the target. Second, unlike shotguns, most such rifles will be fed by 20- or 30-round magazines and have much less recoil than a smoothbore.

 

The M4 is the preferred arm of SWAT teams across the country. Most of the shooting data involving AR-style rifles loaded with modern expanding ammunition comes from law enforcement sources. While they do not go out of their way to broadcast their investigative and autopsy findings, actual shooting results show that ARs loaded with modern defensive ammunition designed to expand—such as the .223 PDX1—work very, very well.

 

Personally, though I put on a pistol every day when I get dressed, my designated home-defense weapon is a lightweight M4-style carbine from Bravo Company. I keep it out of sight but conveniently located for easy access.

 

I love my Glock, but there are certain things a pistol just can’t do."

 

http://www.gunsandammo.com/2012/02/10/long-guns-short-yardage-is-223-the-best-home-defense-caliber/

Edited April 6, 2013 by RobertNashville

[McGarrett]

An AR is ridiculous for home defense as is an AK or any other rifle, unless the rooms in your house are 50 yards long.

 

Shotgun or handgun.  Take your pick.

Back when I lived in the Taj Mahal I kept an M1 Garand on the nightstand for self defense, and I always carried it with me on those long walks to the bathroom down the 500 yard hall, didn't have to worry about over penetrating sheetrock cause there wasn't any back then... Just kidding. 

 

I would agree with Garufa, handgun, shotgun, or both. I would say it boils down to what you feel comfortable with. I lean toward a handgun next to the bed and Winchester 1300 defender 12 ga not too far away in the closet. The AR would not come into play for me unless things went outside. I don't plan on pursuing someone outside but that could come into play in an abduction situation or something along that line. Not something I plan for in home invasion scenarios but i guess you never really now. 

 

I think there is no right answer to this question. I am sure that many of the leo & military guys, or others that have extensive CQ training with AR platform rifles would be a lot more capable with them than I am with one in a CQ encounter inside the house. They might lean more toward the AR because that is what they feel comfortable with. No doubt it has it's advantages, especially against multiple attackers. 

 

If I had to use a rifle during a home invasion it would more than likely be my Marlin 1894C lever action in .357/ .38spl. I feel comfortable with it and it takes the same ammo as the bedside handgun 38spl. I have practiced with it more a lot than the AR, I have put over 1000 rounds through it at varying distances, up to 100 yards. Maybe I need to keep it next to the Winchester so I can grab it. Now you have got me thinking.

 

It never hurts to re-evaluate your defense plans and think outside the box a little. There is no substitute for training and practice.

Edited September 14, 2013 by McGarrett

[QuietDan]

Pistol preferred, then shotgun.

 

AR-15 would be a whole lot better than nothing, especially if it was the only gun in the house.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Whatever is closest to me at the time I need it is what I will use. If it is an AR, so be it. I'm not as worried  with shooting through

a wall like some are. May even have to do that.

 

A gun is a gun. Sometimes the preferred weapon may not be near.

[RobertNashville]

I think this is one of those many issues where opinions/what people are used to/what they've always done/what they've always been told, etc. etc. are all more important than anything else.
 
I'm very comfortable with an 5.56 rifle as my primary/first choice for home defense in the event that a thug or thugs break into my home. It's my first choice for a variety of what I believe are factual, logical reasons. If someone else is convinced that a shotgun or a pistol is better, so be it!  :wave:

[RichardR]

Another aspect to seriously consider is ... would a jury "be comfortable" with your choice of HD weapon though?

Granted most of us wouldn't give a rats-ass about what sort of firearm was used so long as it was a "good shoot" but there are millions of our *cough* fellow Americans *cough* who's absolutely terrified of guns & the use of an "assault weapon" might cause them to mistakenly believe that the homeeowners use of deadly force with an "evil weapon of war" was excessive or unjustified.

Because you know a leftist DA/prosecuter looking for a conviction will hammer a weapon like that endlessly, attempting to provoke an emotional response instead of a logical one from the low-information jurors.

It is a shame, but it is the reality we live in.

[Static_USMC]

I run suppressed sbr with frange, I know my AO ie. fields of fire and backstops / hardpoints regardless of where I am indoors. Hunker down wait for the law. If bad guy is feeling frisky, he's going to get some.

[RobertNashville]

Another aspect to seriously consider is ... would a jury "be comfortable" with your choice of HD weapon though?

Granted most of us wouldn't give a rats-ass about what sort of firearm was used so long as it was a "good shoot" but there are millions of our *cough* fellow Americans *cough* who's absolutely terrified of guns & the use of an "assault weapon" might cause them to mistakenly believe that the homeeowners use of deadly force with an "evil weapon of war" was excessive or unjustified.

Because you know a leftist DA/prosecuter looking for a conviction will hammer a weapon like that endlessly, attempting to provoke an emotional response instead of a logical one from the low-information jurors.

It is a shame, but it is the reality we live in.

It's the job of your quarter-million$ to half-million$ defense team and expert wittnesses to educate the jury (and for you to lear how to testify properly if you take the stand) should you find yourself in that position and if yoy don't have a half-mill$ lying around that's where insurance comes into play.

 

Juries can make the right decision if they get the right evidence. However, "I shoot to kill" posts on an internet forums" such as I've seen here from time to time or putting a "skull" endplage on your Glock may not play well with a jury even with a great defense team...something that folks should consider!

[dcloudy777]

Shotguns are for hunting birds, shooting 3-gun, and turning into SBSs so you can show them off to your friends.
If I have enough time to pick a gun gun for the fight (but not enough time to be somewhere else), the rifle is coming out every time.
The AR pattern rifle can do anything (from an antipersonnel standpoint) that a shotgun can do, and adds a ton of additional capabilities.

Anything that isn't going to go through drywall can't be relied on to stop a threat... It's just that simple.

[Peace]

^^^^^^^ This.

[Spurholder]

If anyone's keeping score, dcloudy just won the game.  Excellent post.

 

Story from Clint Smith:

 

The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm.... "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?" - 'No ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle.'
 

[1gewehr]

Hmm, I just read my latest American Rifleman.  Interesting article on FBI long arms.  Clearly states that the reason the FBI uses 5.56mm rifles for Close Quarters is because there is LESS danger from over-penetration than pistol ammo.

[Garufa]

Hmm, I just read my latest American Rifleman.  Interesting article on FBI long arms.  Clearly states that the reason the FBI uses 5.56mm rifles for Close Quarters is because there is LESS danger from over-penetration than pistol ammo.

 

What high-dollar ammo do they use?

[Static_USMC]

Prob black hills frange

[RobertNashville]

Hmm, I just read my latest American Rifleman.  Interesting article on FBI long arms.  Clearly states that the reason the FBI uses 5.56mm rifles for Close Quarters is because there is LESS danger from over-penetration than pistol ammo.

Yuup...not only is that what I've been told by many instructors I've seen it demonstrated...the right ammo is devestating to flesh (not to mentione all the ohter adavantages of a 5.56 rifle) but it simply will not overpentrate walls like most most all handgun calibers will (at least handgun calibers that are powerful enough to stop the threat well).

There is no "one" right firearm/ammo to use for HD but I think a 5.56 rifle has some big advantages over shotguns and handguns. JMO