the nerve of some people

[saintsfanbrian]

Agreed- even if they were in uniform I would have asked for a copy of their report, a case number this was being assigned to and a receipt for all of the items that they took.

That being said, I too don't agree with an officer "investigating" in my home with out a warrant. I will be more than happy to step out side and speak to you. Anyone in my home can step out side and speak to you. You may not enter.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

I never said that my wife "couldn't" go outside and talk with the police, I just said that weren't coming into my house without a search warrant.

actually, I would be the last person to whine about LEO inaction. in a situation where I need a cop, I can rest assured that he'll be late in responding. that statement isn't meant to reflect negatively on the police, just a statement of facts. the police usually arrive on the scene in time to put up the yellow tape and begin their investigation, but this is to be expected. if someone is in your home, they can normally kill you in what 1 minute? 2? while LEO response time is 4 minutes? 10? that's why I personally believe that all of these "why didn't the cops do anything" people should man up and take their own safety into their own hands. buy a home defense weapon and train with it until they are proficient in it's use. that way, god forbid, the day ever comes, it won't be their bodies getting thrown into the back of an ambulance.

actually, my reluctance stems from the fact that I don't want someone rummaging through my house under cover of "investigation" even after they see that there is nothing wrong going on.

a few years ago, back when I was single. I let my brother stay with me for a couple of weeks. one day, I was woke up by three men rummaging around in my apartment. when I asked who they were, they only responded "police" turns out my brother had been writing bad checks, and when he was caught, they wanted to search his place of residence, and he brought them to my house. while I understand that, when I asked for a search warrant, they simply told me that they "didn't need one" ok, I could let that one slide, since technically, my brother had let them in. then they began taking my stuff. I explained to them that what they were taking were my belongings, and they simply responded with the old "probable cause" they told me that if the stuff wasn't stolen, I could pick it up at the precinct. they refused to give me names, or badge numbers as well.

when I called the precinct, you can imagine that I looked like an idiot asking about my stuff, without knowing the cops names, or badge numbers, or having any way to prove that the stuff was mine. I even gave them my brothers name and told them that they could find the info that way, but I was told that "that case is currently under investigation"

this is one of several stories that turned me against blindly trusting the police. they come through my door they WILL have a warrant, and no amount of "really bad night" threats, or macho "If we want in, were coming in" B.S. is going to change the fact that yes, they may come in, but they will be held accountable in a court of law for their actions.

well Nathan Bedford let me start by saying... if you can get a cop to your house in 4 minutes your lucky. At my house right now If I called one I might see him in 30-35 minutes. By that time whatever is done is done...

In the situation and example you gave you have to understand... Your brother living with you technically meant that was his domicile and possibly his property until proven otherwise. Now I know I dont keep a file of receipts at the ready to prove that sort of thing either... but thats what it would have taken in that situation. Btw... you guys let them in, and go thru you stuff without showing ID.. what Dept was this. If they didnt show I.D then you simply dont let them in and you call 911. Now if they did show ID and you neglected to take down that info then thats not their fault. I'd have more of an issue with your brother putting you in that situation then with the police.

Btw... they will and should be held accountable in a courtof law for their actions, and so should persons illegally trying to prevent them from doing their jobs.

So what was the ending, did you get your stuff back? Was you brother convicted?

Edited July 24, 2008 by GLOCKMEISTER

[DaveTN]

I would like to give a class on what cops can and can’t do. In reading the replies on here when it comes to vehicle stops and warrants, I am really glad I took the time to explain these things to my kids.

[Mike.357]

this whole original post about a restaurant and man with a gun seems to have turned into cops coming into a home.

As for the restaurant, consider it is part of the cost of having a HCP. If your meal gets cold consider the options that you would have had if there was no handgun carry program.

Paying for a cold meal is a small price to pay considering what the other options are.

Just part of the cost of being a responsible gun toter.

[wjh2657]

Start this off with the fact that I am not a cop. I have served as an LEO in the past, but it wasn't a career.

I have applied for an HCP and firmly believe in the right to bear arms (NRA Member). But the truth is this isn't 1876 and Tennessee isn't Dodge City either. Guns do draw attention. With all of the media coverage about innocent people being shot in public places, people are touchy about handguns being carried in public places. The other factor is nobody knows whether you are legit or not. I know there are paroled felons wandering around with a piece on them. Most of them are close kin of the folks who would call a cop on you, so they know that you may not be legit.

The responsible citizen just went Condition Orange, probably good headwork on her part! I'm sorry but I don't like the HCP badge concept. Smacks too much to me of impersonating an officer. Bottom line, I fully expect that if I carry, I will from time to time be called down for it. Cooperate with the LEO, he's just doing his job, and you'll get back to what you were doing before.

The officer walked you out to make sure he was clear of innocent bystanders in case you weren't legit and the incident turned ugly. This was good headwork on his part. Smart police practice is just that, not an attempt to deprive anybody of their rights. EDC as a responsible aware citizen and accept the public image.

We who carry are only a small part of a much larger picture and we must learn to live with that.

[Guest JavaGuy]

The other factor is nobody knows whether you are legit or not.

Exactly. You know that you're not a threat to innocent people, but how are they supposed to know that? This isn't an old cowboy movie where the bad guys wear black.. you, Gene Autry, Roy Rodgers and the rest of the good guys are all wearing white.

One thing that I have seen a lot of people talk about here is "situational awareness." The lady in the restaurant was practicing that - she spotted something that sent her alarm level up a bit and she responded to it correctly. By correctly, I mean that she didn't run screaming to the exits... "He's got a gun.. a gun.. a gun.." She quietly alerted the manager and let him alert the police. She didn't escalate the situation by creating a loud scene.

As a matter of fact, everyone in that situation reacted correctly by not over reacting and escalating matters. Good ol' Roy always stayed calm, cool and collected. He did what he needed to do when he needed to do it, but he didn't borrow trouble. That was just the movies, but it's still a lesson worth absorbing.

By the way.. in that wild, wild West, almost all the cowboys did carry guns. Why? A multitude of reasons.. self defense against outlaws, Indians, wild animals, cows and horses. Yep.. cows and horses. If a stampede is headed towards you.. you could try to protect yourself by shooting a few of those cow critters and hopefully creating enough of an obstacle that you could shelter behind the dead cows. That covers the cows, but why would you need to protect yourself from your horse? Well, if your horse spooks, tosses you off and your foot hangs in the stirrup.. you might well be dragged to death. Your only defense might be to shoot your own horse. It all boils down to a gun being a tool that folks carried.

Just my two cents worth...

[Guest unreconstructed1]

Btw... you guys let them in, and go thru you stuff without showing ID.. what Dept was this. If they didnt show I.D then you simply dont let them in and you call 911.

actually, I didn't let them in. I was asleep on the couch when they came in, and woke up to them going through my stuff. as for the dept., I don't know. my brother was arrested in Rockwood, and I lived in Harriman, so I really couldn't tell you.

yes, my brother was convicted, and no I didn't get my stuff back.

[Guest mark_justmark]

that reminds me of when I was a kid (17) I found the the small town cops going through my car in a local park when I came back from fishing at its pond.

I asked them what was going on and they said "none of my business". I told them it was my car they were in. They said no we weren't and left.

I went home and told my folks and we went to the police station and talked to the chief. He said his officers wouldn't do something like that and I was pretty much calling his fine officers liars.

My folks just dropped it. I guess if we all had a extra money to hire lawyers we would be treated a lot differently.

actually, I didn't let them in. I was asleep on the couch when they came in, and woke up to them going through my stuff. as for the dept., I don't know. my brother was arrested in Rockwood, and I lived in Harriman, so I really couldn't tell you.

yes, my brother was convicted, and no I didn't get my stuff back.

[Mike.357]

wow can you say thread resurrection?

[Guest DylisTN]

I think I'll start carrying information on on how to get a permit, in case this happens to me.

[Titansfan]

I was getting gas at a Shell station yesterday. I usually CC but aparently this time around my shirt got pulled up when I got out of the truck to pump gas. Well about a row or two over this guy sees that I have a gun on me and (or at the least its the way I saw it) flipped out. He made a bee line to a cop that was parked in front of the station. Long story short, the LEO comes over and asks me about the gun and if I have a permit. I complied with everything he said, he looks at it and hands it back to me then goes over to the guy and explains to him the concept of a THCP. It blows my mind that some people go into a meltdown just at the sight of a gun. Sheesh....

You did the right thing. The girlie man got an education. Maybe he'll know next time....

[Guest Astra900]

I don't bother to conceal if I am close to my car and I have had people ask me from time to time, mostly at the gas pump, "Are you a cop?" I always get a chuckle and say no why would you think I'm a cop. They have always just gone away at that point, but there was this one lady, she says

" I thought you were a cop because I see you have a gun."

"Nope, I'm not a cop" I told her.

"Then why do you have a gun?" she asked nervously

"You mean you DON'T" I had just finished pumping my gas at that point.

"NO of course not" She replied somewhat offended

"Well, I feel sorry your kids there, a good mother would be fully prepared to defend those little ones against all threats. Too bad." I shook my head and left. She was mouthing something as I shut my door and drove away.

Yeah, it was mean, but the silly 8|tch deserved it for not minding her own dang business.

[Guest kingtone]

this is major thread resurection... but...

while its up...

i dont want to point this at any one individual post.. but just my thoughts on the matter.

i tend to think that the more polite and courteous you can be in all these situations to both the LEO AND the snitch.. you give all of us with HCP a better reputation. I think we have enough battles on our hands in the near future without creating a reputation for being obnoxious and offensive.

Yes, maybe they SHOULD mind their own business... but perhaps a polite word back and even a brief, (and dare i say, intelligent) response as to why you carry and your beliefs, you might just get some thinking towards looking into it for themselves. The more people for HCP the better when the SHTF politically.

To be honest, i had never thought seriously about carrying when i moved to the USA. But a few of my friends have permits and have had so for a long time. Their educated and intelligent reasons to carry really got me seriously thinking about it all. So i went and did the course and have actively searched out information and books to read on the subject to make me as educated on the topic as i can be at this point. This forum has been another great source of education too.

anyway.. thats just my $.02 worth... no offense meant towards anyone.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

This is what bugs me, people open carry then act like the public shouldnt respond. Then when asked a polite question.. they act like an azz. Instead of telling the peson they have a carry permit.

Moral to this latest story...

Treat people like an azz, you will someday get treated like and azz... so when it happens dont cry about it!

Edited March 18, 2009 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Ninja9]

I have to agree with kingtone and Glockmeister. View it as an opportunity to score one for our side. Otherwise you may just score one for the other side... Also- My instructor spent some time talking about how we have more of an obligation to avoid physical confrontations. Most of those start verbally.

[Fallguy]

This is what bugs me, people open carry then act like the public shouldnt respond. Then when asked a polite question.. they act like an azz. Instead of telling the peson they have a carry permit.

Moral to this latest story...

Treat people like an azz, you will someday get treated like and azz... so when it happens dont cry about it!

I tend to agree....and that is one reason that even though I am a proponent of OC, I don't often. Because I don't always feel like educating people or being an advocate. But if you do OC you should be willing to at least basically explain the law and why.

Of course in states where OC is legal without a permit, you still don't need to act like an azz, but at the same time no explanation is really required either.