the nerve of some people

[Luckyforward]

+1

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Guys look at it this way, if the lady were really scared... wouldnt she have rounded up her three kids and got the hell out of Dodge?

I think she was just another nosey liberal....

[Guest Phantom6]

He has no authority to make you leave the table and go outside, unless you are being arrested.

Keep thinking like that and you may very well set yourself up for a real bad time. The cop in this instance is in the middle of investigating a complaint and your non compliance in the course of that investigation is impeding said investigation and that, technically speaking, is against the law. If you are getting on his "last nerve" he could pencil whip you so to speak and it all could have been avoided.

There would certainly be no problem with simply asking the cop there at the table, "May I ask what this is about officer" and or "may I show you my carry permit here officer?". He doesn't know you and if he believes it is safer for himself and other patrons in the establishment to take this investigation outside then your non compliant attitude could in a worse case scenario get you either arrested for interfering with a lawful police investigation and disturbing the peace or at the very least detained (not arrested) for the duration of the investigation much longer than you need to be while he "ran" your permit to determine it's validity which he certainly has every right to do. Of course with all the radio traffic, periodic weak signals and garbled transmissions waiting on your HCP info from dispatch could take as long as 10 minutes. Now dinner is really cold and it all could have been avoided.

[Guest Phantom6]

Guys look at it this way, if the lady were really scared... wouldnt she have rounded up her three kids and got the hell out of Dodge?

I think she was just another nosey liberal....

My thoughts as well.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

Next time just Open Carry....that way it won't look like you are trying to hide anything....

And don't forget your shiney, new HCP badge.

[Guest canynracer]

And don't forget your shiney, new HCP badge.

And your "Glock Perfection" T-Shirt......

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

And your "Glock Perfection" T-Shirt......

You could probably go for a shirt with an oxymoron that would have broader appeal.

[Guest CaneyFork]

well,well,well, another fine citizan gets an edication. yea right!

[Guest DylisTN]

So my question:

If the LEO is polite and civil, why would you not return that? Get it all solved as quickly as possible? And the LEO back hunting bad guys? Sititution was handled porperly. I can't see any reason to handle otherwise.

[Guest HexHead]

Gotchya...

I dont know that any state FULLY recognizes the 2a as that type of right.. (i.e. no permit, open or concealed, that type of thing) is there???

Vermont does and I think also Alaska.

[Guest HexHead]

If the proerty owner would have asked the guy to leave he should have left.

I am arguing the "authority" of the LEO to make you do anything in this case. Whether anyone believes it or not, normal citizens have rights, and the LEOs do not have rights that are greater than yours. This SHOULD have been acceptable "Officer I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit, this place was not posted in any manner to let me know that carrying my firearm here would be against the owner's wishes. No one has said anything to me about it. I will be more than happy to show you my HCP permit and DL right now."

I agree.

You are not breaking any laws, so why must you bend over backwards just because some liberal mini-van driver doesn't understand the laws.

Again, I agree. It's their problem, not yours.

The officer is not doing anything wrong here either, I am just try to make the point that WE need to know our rights, and anyone who thinks a LEO can make you jump when they say jump, has given in to the sheep mindset.

Especially when you're armed too.

[Guest HexHead]

That's not the point. The point is the police officer was there at the behest of the property owner, and that's a pretty strong signal of where the owner stood on the issue. I would bet a large sum of money that if you had refused to obey the officer then you would be asked to leave by the owner, probably never to return. I'm sure you'd be fine with that, as you wouldn't want to support a business that does not recognize your right to carry, but it sure would interrupt that lunch you were so dead set on finishing.

Once the officer took you outside, that would be a good opportunity to just leave and make the restaurant owner eat the check.

[Guest HexHead]

Sorry, but thats not the way any Dept. I know of handles domestic violence calls. They would still have to ask to speak to your wife privately, so you letting them in to see her, and you step outside... or you sending her out?

I'd suggest they interview her outside as well. I'm not letting a couple of cops that just show up at my door inside without a warrant.

[DaveTN]

A legitimate Domestic Violence call is the kiss of death for a firearms owner.

Conviction means that your carry permit and gun rights are gone.

[Guest HexHead]

Guys look at it this way, if the lady were really scared... wouldnt she have rounded up her three kids and got the hell out of Dodge?

I think she was just another nosey liberal....

Anyone wanna bet she had an Obama sticker on her car?

[Guest HexHead]

A legitimate Domestic Violence call is the kiss of death for a firearms owner.

Conviction means that your carry permit and gun rights are gone.

As well they should be. There's just no excuse for that.

Edited July 23, 2008 by HexHead

[Guest justaman30]

Great way to handle the situation and demonstrate that law-abiding, thinking, intelligent people can carry a concealed handgun safely. Way to go. A good model for all of us.

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Once the officer took you outside, that would be a good opportunity to just leave and make the restaurant owner eat the check.

Yeah, that'd be a great way to give HCP holders a good name. Theft is great PR.

[Im Neero]

A legitimate Domestic Violence call is the kiss of death for a firearms owner.

Conviction means that your carry permit and gun rights are gone.

In the previously mentioned situation, there was no domestic violence, therefore it wasn't legitimate. I have a hard time believing that you could get convicted on your neighbors word that they thought they heard yelling.

If it were a legitimate domestic violence call then not wanting to let the police in would be the least of your legal woes.

[Rightwinger]

Dag nab it, if they get a call of Domestic Violence they are coming in...period. If you haven't done any cracking on the other half, let them come in and then suggest they go talk to the caller and see who is paying way to much attention to whats going on at your house!

There is a time to nut up and say no and a time to step to and say yes sir! Take note how they act and if you are civil and they are not then you can call their office and get their supervisor on the way while they are still there. If you and the missus are sitting there with popcorn on the table and smiles between the both of you they will probably shake their heads and want to visit the asshat next door for you!

[Guest HexHead]

Yeah, that'd be a great way to give HCP holders a good name. Theft is great PR.

Let's see, you're minding your own business, the restaurant owner interrupted your meal calling the cops on you, had you escorted out of the restaurant and now what was left of your meal is cold.

Screw him, he can eat the check and I'd never be going back there again anyway.

Edited July 23, 2008 by HexHead

[Guest Verbal Kint]

[Guest unreconstructed1]

You are stating here that the Officer has no authority like it is fact. He has absolute authority. Now that may not set well with you; but that is just how it is.

I beg to differ. wearing a badge doesn't make someone some sort of all powerful overlord, iot merely says that the government has granted this man the methods to execute the duties of his job.

most LEOs understand this, and as a result they use their (limited) authority faithfully. others abuse this right and give the rest a bad name.

Dag nab it, if they get a call of Domestic Violence they are coming in...period.

actually, that's not true. unreasonable search and seizure is directly in contradiction to he fourth ammendment, which reads:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

If an LEO comes to my door, he isn't coming in without a search warrant. this is nothing against the LEO, I don't let anyone in my front door unless I know them. if he insists on coming inside, let him go get a search warrant, I don't engage in criminal activities, so I have nothing to worry about.

if he does come into my home without my approval and without a warrant, he'll have a complaint filed for illegal search and seizure, criminal charges filed for the same, and a lawsuit on his hands for violating my fourth ammendment rights, not to mention the fact that any evidence gathered would be thrown out of court. my rights are non negotiable.

[Rightwinger]

You'll be able to add roughing you up to the complaint as well because if you resist they will restrain you! That means....snick, cuffed!

I'm just saying that with the emphasis on domestic violence in law enforcement they will verify that there is or is not anything going on. They will enter your home and base it on probable cause from the call to check on the welfare of both of you. They are coming in!

As stated in lots of places, violence has settled the most disputes in history. That is power and at that point they have all the power. If you try to shut the door they are coming in. If you try to talk to them at the door and do not let them in, they ARE coming in. Do you see a pattern here? I'm just as proud of being a man and standing up for my rights as anyone, but in this case I'm going to say come on in, honey the police would like to talk to you, I'll be outside. I'll play nice and like I said, I'll be looking to see what asshat has been listening or looking in my window.

If it were a question of "do you own any guns" I'll answer I own lots of things, all personal property kept here on personal property and stand my ground and ask what's going on if it appears they want to come in, I'll wait for them to produce the warrant. There is no immediate threat at that point like there is on a domestic call. If they are coming in at that point they will inform me of the warrant at the intial conversation. I'm for helping LEO all I can to the point where they cross the line. If they say Domestic, I'm going to smile and comply because they ARE COMING IN!

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

Let's see, you're minding your own business, the restaurant owner interrupted your meal calling the cops on you, had you escorted out of the restaurant and now what was left of your meal is cold.

Screw him, he can eat the check and I'd never be going back there again anyway.

Well, at least the police will already be there and already have your info in case the owner decides to press charges.

Edited to add some more useful and less inflammatory commentary:

The way I see it, such an event is an opportunity to educate someone who might be ignorant of the law. You could take the time to explain to the owner that you have every right to self-protection, and to demonstrate that gun owners are a level-headed bunch. If you're really teed off, you can tell him to his face that you don't appreciate what happened, and that you don't expect to be paying for your meal. Chances are, you'll get your free meal one way or another. If he really wants you out of there, he won't care about your tab. If he's been enlightened, he'll want to show his remorse. And even if he grudgingly comps your meal after a bitter discussion, it's way better than just leaving.

That's my take on things. Go back in and discuss the matter like the mature adults we are, instead of skulking off with your middle finger hoisted.

Edited July 23, 2008 by GUTTERbOY