the nerve of some people

[Guest benchpresspower]

Weird thing is that for people that don't have guns (or been around them), this is a perfectly normal reaction. Think about it. Only guns most of these "normal people" have ever "seen" are the ones on TV where death is usually the outcome. Would bet the farm that he was totally shocked that you (a normal, average-Joe fellow... well... OK... almost normal not so average-Joe fellow ) could legally carry a firearm!

What is surprising is that he had the balls to go tell anyone. Even though it was inconvienent for you... what a wonderful educational moment for the sheep! Think about the conversation that night with the wifey. "Honey... I saw a guy today with a gun. Really!?! Ya, told a nearby policeman. He went over and talked with the guy. The policeman came back and said he had the legal right to carry it. Said he's got a Handgun Carry Permit. Wonder why he had it?" Now, that's the kind of thinking that leads to thinking.

+1:rock:

[memphismason]

You arent another Kwik..LMAO...

I hear ya on the 2nd...but the 2nd for TN is a bit different...

Tennessee Constitution Article I, Section 26

That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

that verbiage means that you carry cause they allow it as priviledge.

the fact that you have to pay to carry proves that.

Yeah but Tennessee's was written after, and as far as I am concerned it "Infinges" upon my right to keep and BEAR arms. And we just stood by and allowed that to happen.

That is just my $0.05 (inflation)

[Guest canynracer]

Yeah but Tennessee's was written after, and as far as I am concerned it "Infinges" upon my right to keep and BEAR arms. And we just stood by and allowed that to happen.

That is just my $0.05 (inflation)

Gotchya...

I dont know that any state FULLY recognizes the 2a as that type of right.. (i.e. no permit, open or concealed, that type of thing) is there???

[Im Neero]

Yeah but Tennessee's was written after, and as far as I am concerned it "Infinges" upon my right to keep and BEAR arms. And we just stood by and allowed that to happen.

That is just my $0.05 (inflation)

As of right now the second amendment only applies to the federal government. States can infringe on your right as much as they want to. I don't want to go into detail, but look up the concept of incorporation as it applies to constitutional law.

Also, if the property owner called the cops, he had every right to make you go outside. If you had refused, the property owner would have had every right to throw you out under penalty of criminal trespass if you didn't leave. If the lady had called the cops it might be different, but if the property owner called the cops then you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

There will always have to be a balance of "rights" when they overlap. In this case I do not think your right to bear arms should trump the property owner's right to ask you to leave.

[Fallguy]

Gotchya...

I dont know that any state FULLY recognizes the 2a as that type of right.. (i.e. no permit, open or concealed, that type of thing) is there???

VT and AK. Neither require a permit and both allow OC or CC

VT doesn't even issue permtis, AK does simply so AK residents can carry in other states, like TN, that require one.

Also several states allow OC without a permit. A permit is only needed to CC.

Edited July 20, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest canynracer]

I know that some offer to SOME degree, I was just wondering if there were any that supported 2a in its entirety....sounds like AK and VT do...

[memphismason]

As of right now the second amendment only applies to the federal government. States can infringe on your right as much as they want to. I don't want to go into detail, but look up the concept of incorporation as it applies to constitutional law.

Also, if the property owner called the cops, he had every right to make you go outside. If you had refused, the property owner would have had every right to throw you out under penalty of criminal trespass if you didn't leave. If the lady had called the cops it might be different, but if the property owner called the cops then you wouldn't really have a leg to stand on.

There will always have to be a balance of "rights" when they overlap. In this case I do not think your right to bear arms should trump the property owner's right to ask you to leave.

If the proerty owner would have asked the guy to leave he should have left.

I am arguing the "authority" of the LEO to make you do anything in this case. Whether anyone believes it or not, normal citizens have rights, and the LEOs do not have rights that are greater than yours. This SHOULD have been acceptable "Officer I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit, this place was not posted in any manner to let me know that carrying my firearm here would be against the owner's wishes. No one has said anything to me about it. I will be more than happy to show you my HCP permit and DL right now."

You are not breaking any laws, so why must you bend over backwards just because some liberal mini-van driver doesn't understand the laws. The officer is not doing anything wrong here either, I am just try to make the point that WE need to know our rights, and anyone who thinks a LEO can make you jump when they say jump, has given in to the sheep mindset.

It doesn't matter fellows. We have allowed the govenment to regulate our everyday lives in such a way that is sickening. We pay for our 2nd amendment, we pay rent each year on property we own, we rewrite laws to trump existing laws, etc. All I am saying is

Please I want to end this fruitless conversation. I made the mistake of saying something that the majority doesn't believe. I should have known better. I didn't, so I am sorry, not for my opinion, but for mentioning it here. I have never served time in the military and I am not a Cop, I am just a lowly citizen, so I should have known better than to speak.

[Im Neero]

If the proerty owner would have asked the guy to leave he should have left.

I am arguing the "authority" of the LEO to make you do anything in this case. Whether anyone believes it or not, normal citizens have rights, and the LEOs do not have rights that are greater than yours.

That's not the point. The point is the police officer was there at the behest of the property owner, and that's a pretty strong signal of where the owner stood on the issue. I would bet a large sum of money that if you had refused to obey the officer then you would be asked to leave by the owner, probably never to return. I'm sure you'd be fine with that, as you wouldn't want to support a business that does not recognize your right to carry, but it sure would interrupt that lunch you were so dead set on finishing.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

If the proerty owner would have asked the guy to leave he should have left.

I am arguing the "authority" of the LEO to make you do anything in this case. Whether anyone believes it or not, normal citizens have rights, and the LEOs do not have rights that are greater than yours. This SHOULD have been acceptable "Officer I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit, this place was not posted in any manner to let me know that carrying my firearm here would be against the owner's wishes. No one has said anything to me about it. I will be more than happy to show you my HCP permit and DL right now."

You are not breaking any laws, so why must you bend over backwards just because some liberal mini-van driver doesn't understand the laws. The officer is not doing anything wrong here either, I am just try to make the point that WE need to know our rights, and anyone who thinks a LEO can make you jump when they say jump, has given in to the sheep mindset.

It doesn't matter fellows. We have allowed the govenment to regulate our everyday lives in such a way that is sickening. We pay for our 2nd amendment, we pay rent each year on property we own, we rewrite laws to trump existing laws, etc. All I am saying is

Please I want to end this fruitless conversation. I made the mistake of saying something that the majority doesn't believe. I should have known better. I didn't, so I am sorry, not for my opinion, but for mentioning it here. I have never served time in the military and I am not a Cop, I am just a lowly citizen, so I should have known better than to speak.

apology accepted just dont let it happen again J/K

[memphismason]

That's not the point. The point is the police officer was there at the behest of the property owner, and that's a pretty strong signal of where the owner stood on the issue. I would bet a large sum of money that if you had refused to obey the officer then you would be asked to leave by the owner, probably never to return. I'm sure you'd be fine with that, as you wouldn't want to support a business that does not recognize your right to carry, but it sure would interrupt that lunch you were so dead set on finishing.

Finishing the lunch isn't the point. Doing something you don't have to do because someone told you too that has a shiny badge is. It is called being Conditioned!

[memphismason]

Thanks GlockGuy, i will try to do better.

[DaveTN]

If the proerty owner would have asked the guy to leave he should have left.

I am arguing the "authority" of the LEO to make you do anything in this case. Whether anyone believes it or not, normal citizens have rights, and the LEOs do not have rights that are greater than yours. This SHOULD have been acceptable "Officer I have a TN Handgun Carry Permit, this place was not posted in any manner to let me know that carrying my firearm here would be against the owner's wishes. No one has said anything to me about it. I will be more than happy to show you my HCP permit and DL right now."

You are not breaking any laws, so why must you bend over backwards just because some liberal mini-van driver doesn't understand the laws. The officer is not doing anything wrong here either, I am just try to make the point that WE need to know our rights, and anyone who thinks a LEO can make you jump when they say jump, has given in to the sheep mindset.

It doesn't matter fellows. We have allowed the govenment to regulate our everyday lives in such a way that is sickening. We pay for our 2nd amendment, we pay rent each year on property we own, we rewrite laws to trump existing laws, etc. All I am saying is

Please I want to end this fruitless conversation. I made the mistake of saying something that the majority doesn't believe. I should have known better. I didn't, so I am sorry, not for my opinion, but for mentioning it here. I have never served time in the military and I am not a Cop, I am just a lowly citizen, so I should have known better than to speak.

No one is saying that you are just a lowly citizen; except you. But there is nothing in the Constitution and nothing in Tennessee state law that requires a Police Officer to put his life or the lives of innocent people around him in danger. If I was dispatched on a man with a gun call, I wouldn’t care if you are an HCP holder or an off duty cop, if I felt the need to remove you from the restaurant or disarm you that is what would happen.

You have recourse if you think I violated your rights; but non-compliance is not an option.

You are stating here that the Officer has no authority like it is fact. He has absolute authority. Now that may not set well with you; but that is just how it is.

[memphismason]

Thank you Dave for setting me straight.

[molonlabetn]

The LEO gets his authority from the law. If no law has been broken or invoked, there is no authority.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

"WOW" i just got caught up on this thread i missed alot last night. thats it no more date nights for me and the wife

[memphismason]

The LEO gets his authority from the law. If no law has been broken or invoked, there is no authority.

:clap:Yes sir, that is correct, but no one will believe you.

[Im Neero]

Finishing the lunch isn't the point. Doing something you don't have to do because someone told you too that has a shiny badge is. It is called being Conditioned!

You sure sounded like finishing lunch was the point earlier.

There is no reason for him to interupt your lunch for such B.S. You were not breaking any law. Asking for you to step outside, "I will be finished with my meal very soon. If you would like to wait for me outside or join me hear at the table, either will be fine, but whatever you are needing me outside for will have to wait until I finish eating my meal." "i am not breaking any laws, I will be glad to let you see my HCP, but it will have to be done here while I eat or after I am finished."

I know I am the ass for say this, but so be it. Idiots do not have the right to interupt my day. The cop is just doing his job, but there is no need to interupt your meal, since you are not doing anything wrong.

And fwiw, if the property owner had not called the police, I would agree with you, but I don't see what refusing to work with the officer could possibly accomplish. Sure, you have a leg to stand on with the cop, but the property owner would knock that right out from under you. In this situation I see your choices as:

A) step outside, show cop your license, come back inside, finish your lunch, and show that nosy bitch that you have as much right to eat here as she does, gun and all, or

refuse to step outside, be asked to leave, leave, have lunch ruined, show that nosy bitch that if someone has a gun and she doesn't like it she can get them thrown out of a restaurant.

Is there an option I'm missing?

[memphismason]

You sure sounded like finishing lunch was the point earlier.

And fwiw, if the property owner had not called the police, I would agree with you, but I don't see what refusing to work with the officer could possibly accomplish. Sure, you have a leg to stand on with the cop, but the property owner would knock that right out from under you. In this situation I see your choices as:

A) step outside, show cop your license, come back inside, finish your lunch, and show that nosy bitch that you have as much right to eat here as she does, gun and all, or

refuse to step outside, be asked to leave, leave, have lunch ruined, show that nosy bitch that if someone has a gun and she doesn't like it she can get them thrown out of a restaurant.

Is there an option I'm missing?

It doesn't matter anymore.

[Im Neero]

[DaveTN]

:clap:Yes sir, that is correct, but no one will believe you.

Well then if you ever have an encounter like that tell the cop to go piss up a rope; he has no authority. After you get out of jail I’m sure you can find a lawyer more than willing to take your case and bleed you dry.

I’m just commenting for those that are wondering if what you are posting is true.

[memphismason]

Telling a cop to "piss up a rope" is disrespectful. I never entertained a thought like that.

I am not a disrespectful person. Everything I have said was in a respectful manner.

No more comments from me on this. I apologize for speaking out of turn. Everyone have fun!

[Im Neero]

Telling a cop to "piss up a rope" is disrespectful. I never entertained a thought like that.

I am not a disrespectful person. Everything I have said was in a respectful manner.

No more comments from me on this. I apologize for speaking out of turn. Everyone have fun!

We'll forgive you this time.

[Guest CrazyLincoln]

You should have called the cops and reported the lady was abusing her kids. Then when questioned, say you thought the kids looked depressed, and if the sight of your gun is enough to interrupt your lunch, the sight of her sad kids is enough to interrupt hers.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

If an officer asks you to step outside after a complaint has been called in on you (and obviously in the OP's case it was), and you say "no, we'll handle this right here", you just told him to piss up a rope whether you choose to believe that or not. But hey, that's your right, so have at it.

[Luckyforward]

This was my experience and you saw how I handled it. Despite agreement or disagreement with my methodology, use this incident as a means to think about what you might do if it ever happens to you.

BTW . . . the LEO was in the parking lot as I left the restaurant. He asked to see my 686 one more time as he thought it was a nice firearm.